Pre Trib Rapture Moment 13: What are Post Tribbers afraid of?

[ChosenbyHim]

To Just-me, You made a good observation in Lk.21:20-24 Luke tells of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, ,then Lk. tells of the Rapture of the church in vs,25-28, then the sign of Israel's restoration as the last generation before the Rapture. SO, in v24 is the end of this church age , when the gentile rule over Israel is fulfilled and the Gospel has brought in the last of the Gentiles to be saved, Romans11:25"..blindness has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in" . then the rapture happens in Lk.21:25-28. in Mt.24:15-22 we see the antichrist in the temple,during the last days, the latter days, ,the 70th wk. of Daniel. In Mt.24:27-34. we see the rapture of the Church. More to follow, love to all, Hoffco

Greeting Hoffco,

Actually Luke 21:25-28 is a reference to the Second Coming. Not the Rapture. Here is why.

If we take a look at the context in Luke 21. Then it becomes clear that what is being referenced in Luke 21:25-28.

Let's have a look at more of the passage though:

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. - Luke 21:21-33 (KJV)

You see Hoffco, verses 25-28 in Luke 21 parallel with Matthew 24:29-31. So that passage must be referring to the Second Advent of the Lord Jesus Christ where He comes to the earth to Judge the Nations. (See Matthew 25:31-46).


The Rapture happens before the time of Jacob's trouble. While the Second Coming happens immediately after the time of Jacob's trouble.


One way to know that the Body of Christ is in Heaven before the time of Jacob's trouble starts is to notice that the four and twenty elders are crowned already (in Revelation 4:10 & 5:8-10) before the antichrist is released in Revelation 6:2).

Check this out:


4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. - Revelation 4:1-5 (KJV)



The four and twenty elders are already crowned in Revelation 4:4, which means the Judgment Seat of Christ has already taken place.


Also note that this is before the antichrist is released (Rev. 6:2).


Therefore Revelation 4 affirms that the Body of Christ is in Heaven before the time of Jacob's trouble begins.



6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. - Revelation 4:6-11 (KJV)

 

[PlainWord]

To Chosen,

I don't know how to create links to other posts so I've copied and pasted my detailed explanation of the Discourse below. It can be found in the Olivet Discourse thread. Once you read this, everything comes into focus. No "rightly dividing" needed my friend when you have the scripture unedited and written perfectly.

Okay, but I have to set it up first to give you the proper context. If you heard of a BIG future event relating to something of extreme interest to you, what about the event would you want to know? What questions would you ask? In this case we are talking about the return of Christ. The disciples, needless to say were very interested.

Four disciples; Andrew, James, Peter and John, asked the Lord 3 questions, actually 2 questions but the second was a two-part question. They really ask 4 questions but we’ll get to the fourth later:

1. “Tell us, when will these things be? (In response to Jesus’ question to them, And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.")
2. What will be the sign of Your coming?
3. (What will be the sign) of the end of the age?

So the disciples ask: “When will the temple and city be thrown down” and they ask “What will be the sign of Jesus coming (return) and the end of the age.”

END OF THE AGE is NOT the Tribulation period; it is the end of the world. Understanding this distinction is key if you want the rest of the scriptures to tie into the Olivet Discourse and if you really want to understand the message. If this isn’t understood, the Discourse can never be sorted out.

So the disciples asked WHEN and WHAT but they do not ask WHERE, or do they? More on that later. They already know the WHY so they don't bother to ask. The Lord never ceases to amaze me because He answers these questions exactly the way they were posed to Him.

He answers the first question, “When will these buildings be torn down”

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),

16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.

18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.

19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

There will be two such events. Satan tried to declare Himself God after Christ was killed and He “made desolate” the temple back in AD 70. This similar event will happen again. But this is the break, “For then...” this “for then” isn’t linked to the previous passages. The Lord is moving ahead.

The Lord then gets on to the next question: What will be the SIGN of Your coming?

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.

27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.

33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors!

34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

If you get the breaks between questions wrong, you can’t solve this. The Lord is listing out the SIGNS of his coming above.

The first sign is: THE GREAT TRIBULATION itself. (Therefore, NO RAPTURE beforehand)

The second sign are: False Christs and False Profits showing wonders and deceiving.

The third sign given is that “Immediately after the Tribulation of those days”

The fourth signs are: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

Does this sound like a secret event? Heck no!! When Jesus comes He comes in all His glory for the whole world to see, Rev 1:7. Therefore all the passages that suggest immanency, thief in the night, not knowing the day or hour CANNOT relate to the second coming of Christ. Therefore, they must relate to the Coming of God the Father at the End of the Age.

We move on to the third question: “(What will be the sign) of the end of the age?

Jesus answers:

35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour [SUP]f[/SUP] your Lord is coming.

43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into.

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

45 "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?

46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.

47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.

48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,'

49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards,

50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of,

51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus begins his answer so simply but so clearly with “Heaven and Earth will Pass Away.” What clearer break can you have than that? Sometimes we (me included) over-think things when the truth is right there in clear text right before our very eyes.

See here that only the Father knows, when HE is coming, Jesus doesn’t even know because it isn’t Jesus who is coming.

The first and only sign is: It will be like the days of Noah, eating, drinking, marrying etc.

This isn't much of a sign as is it? This could apply to any time in history, including the Tribulation period although things will be pretty crazy then.

I have to split this in two, the BIG KEY is coming.

 

[Hoffco]

Let us remember acc, to 2Peter 3:8 " a day with the Lord is like a 1,000 yrs,and a 1,000 is as a day" The rapture starts the day of the Lord and the day of God ends it. The new Heavens and the new earth are after the 1,000yrs reign of Christ with all the saints. including the 144,000 plus martyrs. The Bride of Christ is all the saints from Adam on to the end. All saints will be in the New Jerusalem, Jews and gentiles The day of the Lord is a great,awesome day and a glorious day for the saints,(rapture, and judgment seat of Christ), But wrath to the world. see, NIV and the NASB "glorious". love to all Hoffco

 

[PlainWord]

I mentioned the 4 disciples asked a fourth question, but you don’t see it in Matthew. You see the fourth question answered in Matthew; you just don’t see it asked. You have to turn to Luke 17 to find it.

34 I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left.

35 Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left.

36 Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left."

37 And they answered and said to Him, "Where, Lord?" So He said to them,

"Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

This is the key to the whole thing. What seemed to be a random statement without context in Matthew solves the Olivet Discourse which of course makes clear the when, and where of Jesus' return and it ain't before the Tribulation.

At first it appears that the disciples were asking where the one taken is going. But that isn’t it at all. Remember back to the original questions: when will these things be? What will be the sign of Your coming (and the end of the age)? The “where” here doesn’t refer to where will the end of the age be as that will be everywhere. It doesn’t refer to where the temple and Jerusalem will be thrown down because that is obvious. No, the “where” here refers to where will Jesus come?

So the disciples asked, “When, what (sign), and now where (are you coming)?” These are all the questions we would ask, right?

So now Jesus tells them WHERE He will come. “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

Let’s look at Rev 19 and see if we have found the “where.”

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.

12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had [SUP]c[/SUP] a name written that no one knew except Himself.

13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean,followed Him on white horses.

15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,

18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great."

19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

It is so clear. Jesus comes for the Battle of Armageddon. He does not come at the 7th trumpet. We (GRA and me) are completely wrong about the 7th trumpet. But more on that later.

The key to knowing that the section dealing with the end of the world is correct, besides the dead give away of verse 35, is verse 44 of Matthew 24.

44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Jesus isn't saying He is the one coming here. Oh no, He breaks up the story of the master and thief to tell the admonish the disciples that they need to be ready for the Son of Man (Jesus) to return too, because He also is coming at an hour you don't expect. Notice he doesn't say "day or hour" just hour. Jesus wants us all to be ready. Let's face it we could each die in a moment without warning. So the Lord wants us to "watch" but do so being fully prepared for His coming, whenever it is and no matter how long it takes.

So the conclusion is:

Jesus only returns once. When he comes, he comes to stay and He doesn't come until the end of the Trib. He is bringing an army from heaven. All we know is that the martyred saints from the Trib are for sure with him. We also know because we are told that the rest of the dead don't live again until the 1,000 years are over. This agrees completely with what Jesus tells us in John 6:40, 44, 54 and two other places in John.

If there is no resurrection for the rest of us (non Martyrs) your Rapture theory collapses. It is more holes in it than the Titanic anyway. It isn't clearly taught. It takes scripture out of context and requires applying man-made principles to even see the possibility for it. In a court of law with rules of evidence, the Rapture Theory would be dismissed and the case thrown out of court.

 

[Hoffco]

To PlainWord, It is JESUS who has promised to come back, How can you said
it is not Jesus coming. You are way offf the walll on that point!

 

[PlainWord]

To PlainWord, It is JESUS who has promised to come back, How can you said
it is not Jesus coming. You are way offf the walll on that point!

Again, I never said Jesus isn't coming. Of course He is coming. Have you read my posts? Read the most recent two on this thread. Not only do I say He is coming. I state where and when and use clear scripture to back it up. Dear brother, I think you aren't understanding what I am writing. Please let me know what it is that has you think I don't believe in the second coming of Christ as you have accused me of this twice now. Thank you sir.

 

[PlainWord]

Let us remember acc, to 2Peter 3:8 " a day with the Lord is like a 1,000 yrs,and a 1,000 is as a day" The rapture starts the day of the Lord and the day of God ends it. The new Heavens and the new earth are after the 1,000yrs reign of Christ with all the saints. including the 144,000 plus martyrs. The Bride of Christ is all the saints from Adam on to the end. All saints will be in the New Jerusalem, Jews and gentiles The day of the Lord is a great,awesome day and a glorious day for the saints,(rapture, and judgment seat of Christ), But wrath to the world. see, NIV and the NASB "glorious". love to all Hoffco

Are you saying the Rapture takes 1,000 earth years and one heaven day? Interesting concept but I don't think Christ is going up in the clouds every day for 1,000 earth years.

 

[Hoffco]

to PlainWord, Jesus starts the first question in Mt.22:-12 ,.. then He jumps to the 3rd ques.in mt.24:13-14,.., then He goes back to the 1st. q ,and in v.30 Jesus gets to the 3rd.q. AND ,The SIGN of His coming is Himself in the sky, v30No one will miss, the "sign"of His coming, it is Jesus in the sky! then, the rapture and the sign of Israel regathered before the coming of Christ. We are the last generation. Love to all Hoffco, Doug

 

[Hoffco]

LOL, BUT,You are not far off, of what I said,( better, of what God said) How many earth yrs has it been since Jesus promised to come back?,, 2,000yrs, +or- right? right! Now, the next 1,000 earth yrs. will be Jesus reign on earth, right? right! I was trying to correct your idea that the rapture happens on the "last" earth day. Did you say that? or did chosen say that?? AND, was it you that said. "it is not Jesus coming .it is God's coming? Sorry if I got the two of you mixed up , I thought I was correct,maybe not? love to all ,Hoffco LOL

 

[PlainWord]

to PlainWord, Jesus starts the first question in Mt.22:-12 ,.. then He jumps to the 3rd ques.in mt.24:13-14,.., then He goes back to the 1st. q ,and in v.30 Jesus gets to the 3rd.q. AND ,The SIGN of His coming is Himself in the sky, v30No one will miss, the "sign"of His coming, it is Jesus in the sky! then, the rapture and the sign of Israel regathered before the coming of Christ. We are the last generation. Love to all Hoffco, Doug

So you don't believe we will see a 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth before the end of this world?

 

[Hoffco]

to ChosenbyHim Matthew and Luke are very parallel ,except that, Mt. 24:15 refers to the "abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel" 24:15: But Lk. 21:20 does not say"as spoken by Daniel" just that "Jerusalem's" "desolation is near"and adds v24, that the Jews will be scattered into the whole world and the gentiles will rule over the land of Israel until their time is over, "fulfilled" . Please, read that more carefully. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug

 

[PlainWord]

LOL, BUT,You are not far off, of what I said,( better, of what God said) How many earth yrs has it been since Jesus promised to come back?,, 2,000yrs, +or- right? right! Now, the next 1,000 earth yrs. will be Jesus reign on earth, right? right! I was trying to correct your idea that the rapture happens on the "last" earth day. Did you say that? or did chosen say that?? AND, was it you that said. "it is not Jesus coming .it is God's coming? Sorry if I got the two of you mixed up , I thought I was correct,maybe not? love to all ,Hoffco LOL

Correct, it has been nearly 2,000 years since Jesus promised he'd come back. Correct, there will be another 1,000 earth years of Jesus' millennial reign. I think it important to define what the Rapture is first. Let's see if we can define the Rapture concept first then we can discuss what happens when. This is what I was taught concerning the so-called Rapture:

Occurs the next time Jesus returns
The dead in Christ are risen first to meet the Lord in the air (dead bodies going up)
By extension this means their souls come down from heaven with Jesus
Then all true believers are caught up in the clouds with Jesus alive
Then all believers (dead and alive) are transformed into new glorious and immortal bodies
Then all believers are then taken back to heaven where they wait until the Tribulation is over
Then all believers come back with the Lord for the Battle of Armageddon and defeat Satan

Did I get this about right, Chosen?

Then we all live and reign with Christ 1,000 years. Then God comes down and resurrects the unbelieving dead. He judges them and sends them to Hell along with Satan and the Beast. He then blows up the old heavens and earth and makes new ones for we true believers to dwell in forever.

The above is what I was taught growing up and seems to be what Chosen and other pre-tribbers believe. Correct me if I am wrong Chosen.

What I am saying is Jesus comes back once.
He comes for the Battle of Armageddon.
He brings with him an army. I am uncertain who exactly comprises the army, angels and those who have already died and are in heaven (whether it is just martyrs or everyone who has died and in heaven, I am still not certain).
Those believers who are alive and on earth when he comes are gathered up.
The Battle happens.
Jesus reigns 1,000 years.
God returns, resurrects and judges, blows up the old heaven and earth and makes new ones.

 

[PlainWord]

These are the reasons my view has changed from what Chosen believes to what I believe now. Chosen uses dispensationalism and "rightly dividing" to invent things not clearly taught. I believe there are eras and different rules apply such as we did go from the Law to Grace. But that doesn't mean we get to invent totally new concepts thereby inventing an extra return of Christ. We are told specifically NOT to add to God's Word. Anyway...

Let's discuss the resurrection first. What do these verses mean? Verses in red are words actually spoken by Jesus. All the below are contained in the Book of John, therefore there can be no literary difference in the meanings of "last day."

John 6:

40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:

24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he (Lazarus) will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

John 12:

48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him--the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

We can clearly see that in the first 4 verses, the believer is being raised in the Last Day and it is Jesus who does the raising in the first 3 instances and probably in Martha's verse too as they all relate to the believing dead.

But now we have the 5th verse. Jesus is talking about an unbeliever who is getting judged also in the last day. It is interesting to note that Jesus doesn't say He is raising this guy or judging him. He is only saying His Word will judge him and that will happen in the Last Day.

We have to conclude that this "last day" is the same "last day" in all 5 verses. If that is a fact, then we have a problem with the Pre-Trib Rapture theory as defined above. First, the Last Day is NOT a day before the Tribulation. Clearly there will be days AFTER this, 1,007 years worth at least.

Even if we conclude that Jesus is referring to the Last Day of Dispensation of Grace (which is the day before the Tribulation starts) as Chosen would have us believe - we still have a major problem. We know that the unbeliever is not resurrected until the end of time for the Great White Throne of Judgment. So, the clear reading of the Word leads us to conclude that the resurrection of both believer and unbeliever happen on the same day and that this day is at the end of the World.

I guess if you want to apply the 1,000 years is as a day rule, you can but that makes Jesus very deceptive and the 1,000 year rule isn't spoken of here in this context. Even still, it would leave Chosen short 7 years for a Pre-Trib Rapture.

 

[Hoffco]

To PlainWord, You believe that both the saved and the unsaved are raised on the "last" literal day of planet earth . no 1,000 yrs, and then immediately God recreates Heaven and earth? Is this what you teach?

 

[PlainWord]

To PlainWord, You believe that both the saved and the unsaved are raised on the "last" literal day of planet earth . no 1,000 yrs, and then immediately God recreates Heaven and earth? Is this what you teach?

I believe God restores heaven and earth to their original perfect state, the way He created them. I believe that the Dead in Christ, their souls, reside in Heaven until the Lord Jesus returns to earth.

1 Thes 5:10

...that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

It is clear to me that if saved, we are to always be with the Lord Jesus. The question is when do we receive resurrected glorified bodies? The passages I quoted in John make it seem that it is at the Last Day.

 

[MarkIA]

Pre-Tribulation Rapture:

The most popularly taught view among Christian faiths is known as the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, or “Pre-Trib” theory. Those who accept this perspective believe the Rapture will happen just before the tribulation period, at the beginning of the seventieth week of Daniel. The Rapture will usher in the final seven years of this age. True followers of Jesus Christ will be transformed into their spiritual bodies in the Rapture and taken from the Earth to be in Heaven with God. Non-believers will be left behind to face severe tribulation as the antichrist prepares to take his place as the Beast half way through the seven year period. According to this view, non-believers will still come to accept Christ, in spite of the Church’s absence during this time, however, these new Christians will endure extreme persecution, to the point of death by beheading.

 

[PlainWord]

Pre-Tribulation Rapture:

The most popularly taught view among Christian faiths is known as the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, or “Pre-Trib” theory. Those who accept this perspective believe the Rapture will happen just before the tribulation period, at the beginning of the seventieth week of Daniel. The Rapture will usher in the final seven years of this age. True followers of Jesus Christ will be transformed into their spiritual bodies in the Rapture and taken from the Earth to be in Heaven with God. Non-believers will be left behind to face severe tribulation as the antichrist prepares to take his place as the Beast half way through the seven year period. According to this view, non-believers will still come to accept Christ, in spite of the Church’s absence during this time, however, these new Christians will endure extreme persecution, to the point of death by beheading.

Yes, most believers were taught in the Pre-Trib Rapture, but that view is patently false. As explained on these and other threads. Nowhere in the Bible is a Pre-Trib Rapture taught. Nowhere in the Bible are two second comings of Christ taught. Wherever the return of Christ is mentioned the timing is clearly after the Man of Sin is revealed, 2 Thes 2 or "After the Tribulation of those Days" Mat 24:27-31. We are taught that the Gentile church is to be "grafted in" with God's chosen people, Israel - Romans 11. We are taught Israel will go through significant persecution during the Trib with 2/3 killed and the remaining 1/3 returning to Christ. A Pre-trib Rapture of the Church would equate to God ripping the newly grafted branches from the Olive Tree. This is clearly not taught.

I believe it is the vast teaching of this Pre-Trib lie that will cause the falling away of the church mentioned by Paul in 2 Thes 2. Once the Trib starts and weaker Christians find they are still here, they will turn from God and believe in the Beast/AC.

The Pre Trib rapture story is likely the work of Satan having started and taken root in the 1830s along with so many other new religions, cults and the Evolution theory which all started in the 1800s. The Pre-Trib Rapture theory is a dangerous and Un-Biblical theory that flies in the face of the Word of God.

 

[PlainWord]

Since most Christians were taught and believe in Satan's Pre Trib Rapture lie, they will accept the first "Christ" who appears thinking it is the "Rapture." Since the Bible clearly teaches that the real Christ will not return until AFTER the Man of Sin appears, the first "Christ" on the scene will be the Anti-Christ. This is what will cause the "falling away" described by Paul. The Pre-Trib Rapture lie IS one of the False Prophesies discussed by Jesus to be taught in the end times.

See John 15:15

No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus teach in a "Rapture" of the church. Nowhere does Jesus discuss an earlier coming BEFORE the Tribulation. Jesus made clear that He does NOT keep things from his friends. Since He never tells the disciples that He is returning twice, we have to conclude that He returns once. Since He returns once, He comes when He always said, "AFTER the Tribulation of those days!"

Hang on tight Brothers. The Tribulation is not far away. Watch.

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be dchanged. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on
immortality."

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Since most Christians were taught and believe in Satan's Pre Trib Rapture lie, they will accept the first "Christ" who appears thinking it is the "Rapture." Since the Bible clearly teaches that the real Christ will not return until AFTER the Man of Sin appears, the first "Christ" on the scene will be the Anti-Christ. This is what will cause the "falling away" described by Paul. The Pre-Trib Rapture lie IS one of the False Prophesies discussed by Jesus to be taught in the end times.

See John 15:15

No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus teach in a "Rapture" of the church. Nowhere does Jesus discuss an earlier coming BEFORE the Tribulation. Jesus made clear that He does NOT keep things from his friends. Since He never tells the disciples that He is returning twice, we have to conclude that He returns once. Since He returns once, He comes when He always said, "AFTER the Tribulation of those days!"

Hang on tight Brothers. The Tribulation is not far away. Watch.

And for the true brethren out there. Watch and look for Jesus Christ. Because that is what the Bible admonishes us to do. And don't worry about having to go through the time of Jacob's trouble because no true born again Christian will go through the tribulation. The rapture comes first, then once the body of Christ is removed from off the earth, then that is when the man of sin will be revealed.


2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 KJV
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. [7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: [9] Even him , whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, [10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.