Praying in Tongues
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You speak of language as though it is formed differently today than it was after Babel. Languages still evolve, borrow from other languages, and are not understood by all mankind.
The simple reason you think something is babbling or jibberish has no bearing on people having the gift of tongues.
My studies include linguistics, Hebrew, some spanish,, German and French Literature along side of linguistics and I could never make the claims you have made about languages.
At the time our Lord walked His creation and in His land Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin were used.......the Aramaic is said to be the mother tongue of Arabic and Hebrew...
The more languages there are it seems themore useful tongues may be for our Father.
When peple pray in tongues, it is in the book, they are eidfied even though they do not understand what they are saying for within they praise God.
If someone has the gift of interpreting, they will. If not the one speaking is to speak lowly so as not to interfere witht he congregation
Some people pray int he language of Angels, and this is special edifying much.
When the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit in full on Pentacost, everyone understood each one of them in his or her native tongue.....
Just because you donot have the faith to believe Gos remains the same today as He was then is noreason to TELL people they have not the gift, for you simply do not know this. I prefer faith and believing theyi do.
The simple reason you think something is babbling or jibberish has no bearing on people having the gift of tongues.
My studies include linguistics, Hebrew, some spanish,, German and French Literature along side of linguistics and I could never make the claims you have made about languages.
At the time our Lord walked His creation and in His land Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin were used.......the Aramaic is said to be the mother tongue of Arabic and Hebrew...
The more languages there are it seems themore useful tongues may be for our Father.
When peple pray in tongues, it is in the book, they are eidfied even though they do not understand what they are saying for within they praise God.
If someone has the gift of interpreting, they will. If not the one speaking is to speak lowly so as not to interfere witht he congregation
Some people pray int he language of Angels, and this is special edifying much.
When the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit in full on Pentacost, everyone understood each one of them in his or her native tongue.....
Just because you donot have the faith to believe Gos remains the same today as He was then is noreason to TELL people they have not the gift, for you simply do not know this. I prefer faith and believing theyi do.
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I would have to say it's just the opposite - your belief that what 'tongues'-speakers are producing today comes from reading into the Biblical narrative of things that are just not there. With all due respect, I'm not redefining scripture to fit the modern phenomenon and experience. "Tongues" (read "language(s)") are nothing more than real, rational language(s).
Why do people still call it by the archaic term; 'tongues', and not the more modern term; 'language(s)'?
"Speaking in language(s)" - doesn't quite sound as supernatural/mysterious as "Speaking in tongues", does it? In fact, if you replace 'tongues' with 'language(s)' in those passages, get rid of the added 'unknowns', and reread the passages, the modern concept of 'tongues' becomes a bit harder to posit.
Why do people still call it by the archaic term; 'tongues', and not the more modern term; 'language(s)'?
"Speaking in language(s)" - doesn't quite sound as supernatural/mysterious as "Speaking in tongues", does it? In fact, if you replace 'tongues' with 'language(s)' in those passages, get rid of the added 'unknowns', and reread the passages, the modern concept of 'tongues' becomes a bit harder to posit.
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@JaumeJ –
You speak of language as though it is formed differently today than it was after Babel. Languages still evolve, borrow from other languages, and are not understood by all mankind.
Languages are no different today than they were say 5,000 years ago. No, of course, no one understands all languages, but….there’s a difference between real language and something that is merry a façade of language.
The simple reason you think something is babbling or jibberish has no bearing on people having the gift of tongues.
I would argue that people have redefined the gift to fit the modern phenomenon/experience.
My studies include linguistics, Hebrew, some spanish,, German and French Literature along side of linguistics and I could never make the claims you have made about languages.
Sorry, not sure I follow. What claims specifically?
At the time our Lord walked His creation and in His land Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin were used.......the Aramaic is said to be the mother tongue of Arabic and Hebrew...
Yes, it's actually quite interesting - the linguistic landscape of the time was one that was in a great deal of fluctuation - from the Hellenization of most of the Mediterranean Basin, to the Roman occupation. There was a lot going on language-wise.
Aramaic is a separately developed language from Hebrew; it’s related to both Hebrew and Arabic, but as a sister, not a mother.
The more languages there are it seems the more useful tongues may be for our Father.
If you define ‘tongues’ as the Bible does; real rational language(s), yes. The more languages you can translate the Bible into and continue to spread Christianity.
When people pray in tongues, it is in the book, they are edified even though they do not understand what they are saying for within they praise God.
That, I believe is one of the keys – i.e. “from within”. They are praising God from the subconscious mind while using the tool of glossolalia to establish, for them, a closer connection/relationship with God. In that respect it is a powerful tool, but it is no different than say a shaman using glossolalia to establish that same connection to what, in their belief, constitutes the divine.
If someone has the gift of interpreting, they will. If not the one speaking is to speak lowly so as not to interfere witht he congregation.
Yes, if there is no one who can translate their language to the vernacular, they are to remain silent and pray to themselves to God (so as not to cause confusion at the public worship).
Some people pray in the language of Angels, and this is special edifying much.
If you’re referring to Paul’s comment in his letter, that’s pure textbook hyperbole; it was never written to be taken literally – while there’s no reason to believe that angels do not communicate among themselves; given that they are pure spirit, I highly doubt it’s with anything resembling a human vocal tract.
When the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit in full on Pentacost, everyone understood each one of them in his or her native tongue.....
I have a different view of the Pentecost narrative with respect to what languages were spoken by those in attendance.
Just because you do not have the faith to believe Gos remains the same today as He was then is no reason to TELL people they have not the gift, for you simply do not know this. I prefer faith and believing they do.
The fact that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, forever and ever, doesn’t have anything to do with ‘tongues’. Again, I would argue that people have redefined the gift to fit the modern experience.
You speak of language as though it is formed differently today than it was after Babel. Languages still evolve, borrow from other languages, and are not understood by all mankind.
Languages are no different today than they were say 5,000 years ago. No, of course, no one understands all languages, but….there’s a difference between real language and something that is merry a façade of language.
The simple reason you think something is babbling or jibberish has no bearing on people having the gift of tongues.
I would argue that people have redefined the gift to fit the modern phenomenon/experience.
My studies include linguistics, Hebrew, some spanish,, German and French Literature along side of linguistics and I could never make the claims you have made about languages.
Sorry, not sure I follow. What claims specifically?
At the time our Lord walked His creation and in His land Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek and Latin were used.......the Aramaic is said to be the mother tongue of Arabic and Hebrew...
Yes, it's actually quite interesting - the linguistic landscape of the time was one that was in a great deal of fluctuation - from the Hellenization of most of the Mediterranean Basin, to the Roman occupation. There was a lot going on language-wise.
Aramaic is a separately developed language from Hebrew; it’s related to both Hebrew and Arabic, but as a sister, not a mother.
The more languages there are it seems the more useful tongues may be for our Father.
If you define ‘tongues’ as the Bible does; real rational language(s), yes. The more languages you can translate the Bible into and continue to spread Christianity.
When people pray in tongues, it is in the book, they are edified even though they do not understand what they are saying for within they praise God.
That, I believe is one of the keys – i.e. “from within”. They are praising God from the subconscious mind while using the tool of glossolalia to establish, for them, a closer connection/relationship with God. In that respect it is a powerful tool, but it is no different than say a shaman using glossolalia to establish that same connection to what, in their belief, constitutes the divine.
If someone has the gift of interpreting, they will. If not the one speaking is to speak lowly so as not to interfere witht he congregation.
Yes, if there is no one who can translate their language to the vernacular, they are to remain silent and pray to themselves to God (so as not to cause confusion at the public worship).
Some people pray in the language of Angels, and this is special edifying much.
If you’re referring to Paul’s comment in his letter, that’s pure textbook hyperbole; it was never written to be taken literally – while there’s no reason to believe that angels do not communicate among themselves; given that they are pure spirit, I highly doubt it’s with anything resembling a human vocal tract.
When the Apostles receive the Holy Spirit in full on Pentacost, everyone understood each one of them in his or her native tongue.....
I have a different view of the Pentecost narrative with respect to what languages were spoken by those in attendance.
Just because you do not have the faith to believe Gos remains the same today as He was then is no reason to TELL people they have not the gift, for you simply do not know this. I prefer faith and believing they do.
The fact that God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow, forever and ever, doesn’t have anything to do with ‘tongues’. Again, I would argue that people have redefined the gift to fit the modern experience.
Remember what Paul said how if he speaks in tongues but has not love he is but a clanging symbol? Love is very important.
It is not good to squash the gifts of the Spirit. I can agree with you on that. It is also good to test things to see if it is valid or not. When researchers ask subjects to speak in tongues and they do but the researchers don't see a language but rather just random sounds put to together to mimic language, that doesn't mean that tongues does not exist it may just mean that those specific people might not have really been speaking in tongues. When people who are not Christian practice tongues, it does not mean all tongues are counterfeit but that there may exist some counterfeit tongues.
How can a Christian know if they really have the gift of tongues? For myself it is not something I am comfortable with at this point just practicing it in prayer. I don't seem to have enough faith for it. If I speak in tongues I want to be assured it is of the Lord and not just me. Though I have noticed in the middle of the night before how I would catch myself saying something or singing but not english but I don't know either
It is not good to squash the gifts of the Spirit. I can agree with you on that. It is also good to test things to see if it is valid or not. When researchers ask subjects to speak in tongues and they do but the researchers don't see a language but rather just random sounds put to together to mimic language, that doesn't mean that tongues does not exist it may just mean that those specific people might not have really been speaking in tongues. When people who are not Christian practice tongues, it does not mean all tongues are counterfeit but that there may exist some counterfeit tongues.
How can a Christian know if they really have the gift of tongues? For myself it is not something I am comfortable with at this point just practicing it in prayer. I don't seem to have enough faith for it. If I speak in tongues I want to be assured it is of the Lord and not just me. Though I have noticed in the middle of the night before how I would catch myself saying something or singing but not english but I don't know either
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I didn't say anything like this. The scriptures say that Holy Spirit is given to those who obey. That obedience is belief. This is all that is needed, to hear the message of the Cross of Jesus, and repent of sin and turn to Him.
If you think one has to have all their doctrinal ducks in a row, then you limit the mercy and grace of God. Jesus has died for every man, woman, and child ever born, and He longs to save us all.
Holy Spirit is our teacher but our world view can cloud truth for years. Plus experiences. God gives us time for if He didn't, no one would be saved.
If you think one has to have all their doctrinal ducks in a row, then you limit the mercy and grace of God. Jesus has died for every man, woman, and child ever born, and He longs to save us all.
Holy Spirit is our teacher but our world view can cloud truth for years. Plus experiences. God gives us time for if He didn't, no one would be saved.
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Luk 11:10 For every one who asketh receiveth, and who seeketh findeth, and who knocketh hath it opened to him.
Luk 11:11 For what father (is there) among you who, if his son shall ask bread, will reach to him a stone? or should he ask a fish, how instead of a fish will he reach to him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 or if an egg he shall ask, will he a scorpion reach to him?
Luk 11:13 And if you, who are evil, know to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father from the heavens give the Spirit of Holiness to those who ask him!
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Does it really matter if it's called tongues or languages Kavik? For one to just start speaking words while in worship of God, is not an earthly act by any means. It's supernatural and comes from a supernatural God. God is Spirit, love, Light.....and we cannot understand this either. Yet He has a physical form.
Speaking of Father God or YHWH. Am believing more and more every day that we should use Hebrew terms for the worldly views being espoused here.
Names mean character in Hebrew. Yeshua being named by an angel before His birth is a prophecy FROM AN ANGEL! And yet you cannot believe that there is angelic languages given to men.
Speaking of Father God or YHWH. Am believing more and more every day that we should use Hebrew terms for the worldly views being espoused here.
Names mean character in Hebrew. Yeshua being named by an angel before His birth is a prophecy FROM AN ANGEL! And yet you cannot believe that there is angelic languages given to men.
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I did not see Jesus rise again but there is the testimony of people who not only died for their faith but claimed to have seen the risen Lord, were tormented for their testimony yet rejoicing in affliction and then paid the ultimate price for their faith in him. One question though, where does it say in the bible about Jesus living now in a body without blood? I don't remember ever reading that verse.
He had to do this...
Heb 9:11 BUT the Meshiha who hath come was a High Priest of good things which he wrought out, and hath entered into the great and perfect tabernacle (which was) not made with hands, nor made from these creatures.
Heb 9:12 Nor entered he with the blood of goats and calves, but with the blood of himself he entered once the holy place, and hath found eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and of calves, and the dust of an heifer, sprinkled upon those who were unclean, sanctifieth them for the purification of their flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more then shall the blood of the Meshiha, who, by the Eternal Spirit, himself hath offered without spot unto Aloha, purify our conscience from dead works, to serve the Aloha the Living?
Heb 9:15 For this was he made the Mediator of the new covenant, that by his death he might become the ransom for those who had transgressed against the first covenant, (and) that they might receive the promise, they, who are called unto the inheritance which is eternal.
Heb 9:16 FOR where a covenant [Diathike.] is, there is indicated the DEATH of that which made it.
Heb 9:17 For upon death only is it confirmed; because while he who made it lived there is no value in it.
Heb 9:18 Wherefore neither the first without blood was confirmed.
Redemption Through the Blood of Christ
Heb 9:11 BUT the Meshiha who hath come was a High Priest of good things which he wrought out, and hath entered into the great and perfect tabernacle (which was) not made with hands, nor made from these creatures.
Heb 9:12 Nor entered he with the blood of goats and calves, but with the blood of himself he entered once the holy place, and hath found eternal redemption.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of goats and of calves, and the dust of an heifer, sprinkled upon those who were unclean, sanctifieth them for the purification of their flesh,
Heb 9:14 how much more then shall the blood of the Meshiha, who, by the Eternal Spirit, himself hath offered without spot unto Aloha, purify our conscience from dead works, to serve the Aloha the Living?
Heb 9:15 For this was he made the Mediator of the new covenant, that by his death he might become the ransom for those who had transgressed against the first covenant, (and) that they might receive the promise, they, who are called unto the inheritance which is eternal.
Heb 9:16 FOR where a covenant [Diathike.] is, there is indicated the DEATH of that which made it.
Heb 9:17 For upon death only is it confirmed; because while he who made it lived there is no value in it.
Heb 9:18 Wherefore neither the first without blood was confirmed.