Praying for the Unsaved

pottersclay · Jan 7, 2019

I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’.

Prayer is a part of ministry 😃😃😃

crossnote · Jan 7, 2019

pottersclay said:

I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’.

Prayer is a part of ministry 😃😃😃

I'm not sure I get the connection between your quoted passage in Rom 9 and your statement 'prayer is a part of ministry'.

tourist · Jan 7, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

Perhaps Jesus prays for everyone not to lose faith. It is clear in scripture that the Holy Spirit never stops praying to the Father for us. Perhaps when we say prayers it is for our benefit to relieve anxiety and stress as we have made our request known to God even though the Holy Spirit may have already prayed for that which we also prayed for.

maxwel · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

Most Clear Verses So Far:

So far, there have only been two passages pointed out in this thread that specifically answer the question... and even those could be questioned or debated.

1Timothy 2:1-4
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.
This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior,
who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

However...
in 1Tm 2:1-4, it doesn't "have to be" interpreted as praying for the salvation of the lost.

It could be interpreted as praying for civil authorities, which give us civil peace, which allow christians to have a peaceful life and environment, in which we can live and preach the gospel to the lost. It could be interpreted this way because the "interecessions" in verse 1 are only connected clearly and directly to the achievement of civil peace found in verse 2. There is no direct or explicit connection between the "intercessions" in verse 1, and the "all people to be saved" in verse 4.

Romans 10:1
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved.

It could be possible to interpret this as some kind of national turning, or national repentance, and not actually as individual's getting saved and coming to Christ. I'm not trying to start a theology debate, I'm just posting other ways this could be interpreted.

MY PERSONAL THOUGHTS:
1. I pray for the lost because that is just what is on my heart... it just seems like the right thing to do.
2. I am NOT aware of any perfectly clear and bullet-proof text explicitly saying I SHOULD pray for the lost.... but since there is no verse saying NOT TO, and it seems like the right thing to do... that is what I do.
3. I can even make a case against both Arminians and Calvinists, that it doesn't make theological sense to pray for the lost... but it still seems like the right thing to do.
4. Historically, we have good evidence that all major revivals were first preceded by the continual and devoted prayers of God's people for the lost.
5. I have personal experience of praying for people who eventually, over many years, came to Christ.
6. I have anecdotal evidence of others praying for the lost and experiencing the same outcomes as my personal experiences.
7. Even if my prayer for the lost CHANGES NOTHING FOR THEM... it still CHANGES ME.
My prayers for the lost SOFTEN AND CHANGE MY OWN HEART... interceding and caring for others has a genuine effect on my own heart, and I KNOW that is real.

When we pray for the lost, it may be that it's primary effect is just to align our own hearts with the heart of God.
I'm not really sure.
But I still pray for the lost...
and I still pray for them adamantly.

...

Sherril · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

Wow this is a awesome question..i have wondered at times about the Loved ones i did pray for and they did not repent, and if a person comes to Jesus unto repentance and salvation does my prayer really make the diff. or is this just between the Father, Jesus and the person..well ty for this question its very interesting..

crossnote · Jan 7, 2019

Sherril said:

And thank you for bringing up an actual life situation. I also have had a loved one slip into eternity with no apparent affinity towards our Lord, even after many prayers.

posthuman · Jan 7, 2019

maxwel said:

i think this is the most clear -- it's hard for me to dismiss this as 'national' because even though, contextually, yes, there is that implication, it doesn't dismiss the personal level because you cannot have national salvation without a nation comprised of individual saved citizens.

it's just math -

CS1 · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

Jesus is our example of how we are to pray. Did he not pray for those who He knew would be saved? Did Not Jesus say to pray for those who wrongfully use you? Bless those who curse you? If you are told to pray for those who Persecute you, curse you , wrongfully use you, what more of an example does one need to pray for the unsaved?

CS1 · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

hey FYi before Arminians's and Calvinist found out they were Arminians or Calvinst someone most likely prayed for them to be saved.

lol

ProphetExcalibur · Jan 7, 2019

ProphetExcalibur said:

My bad! My short hand catches up with me every know and then, wasn't saying i was sorry you got me searching; you got me searching was a good thing! Please forgive, this is a great thread, i couldn't figure out what you were talking about! 😋

Jerry · Jan 7, 2019

Deuteronomy said:

If we can pray to God for someone to be saved, all who are mentioned in prayer would be saved (as Mormons can be baptized for others) and such would be against our freewill. What I pray for is that God will place something in one's path that might cause them to think about the welfare of their soul.

I do not however, believe in the Calvinist idea of how one is chosen

crossnote · Jan 7, 2019

Jerry said:

That would be an ineresting topic in and of itself, like...

1. Pray that God tears down the walls of their resistance.
2. Pray that He brings that person under conviction of their sin and reveals them as sinners.
3. Pray that God reveals that their only hope of salvation is found in Jesus, God's Son.
4. Pray that God reveals to them that He does indeed have a Son.
5. Pray that God opens their understanding to the Gospel message itself.
6. etc.

pottersclay · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

Jesus said to make you a minister....prayer is part of the ministry....Jesus is talking about the lost .

tourist · Jan 7, 2019

CS1 said:

Perhaps the someone who prayed was a Catholic.

Ignorun · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

I know instinctively that we are to do so, but can any one point me out an example in Scripture where there is prayer for the unsaved.. for their salvation, or an injunction to pray for the unsaved that they may be saved?

Extra Credit-

For the Arminian...Wouldn't a salvation prayer intefere with the free wiil of the lost?

For the Calvinist... Wouldn't a salvation prayer intefere with God's sovereign choice?

Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. Luke 23.34

Deuteronomy · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

Hi Crossnote, it seems to me that defining any group by the beliefs of those on the fringe is ~never~ a good idea.

No one, for instance, would say that the AoG is defined by the teachings of Jim Jones (even though he was an AoG pastor), well, save a detractor perhaps, whose hated for the denomination allows them to feel somehow justified in the midst of their lies and deceit, even as a Christian.

So it is where Calvinism is concerned.

I can understand and have patience with the few who hold to only 3 or 4 points of the Doctrines of Grace while, at the same time, claiming to be Calvinists, but considering what Hyper-Calvinists believe/teach, not only are they ~not~ Calvinists, I wonder if they can rightly be defined as Christians ... yet it's their errant, heretical (blasphemous) beliefs that are often touted as the core beliefs of mainstream Calvinism/Reformed Theology, particularly out here in the world of online Christianity.

This should not be.

It's true, of course (to a degree anyway), that there are a number of varying beliefs within Calvinism. That said, the fringe groups that you describe as "camps" may exist, but no Calvinist I know of would include them within the pale of Calvinism. It would be similar to insisting that the core beliefs of Arminianism are Universalism, Open Theism and Hyper-Grace, or that Universalists, Open Theists and Hyper-Grace believers make up "camps" within Arminianism, which is hardly the case

~Deut

Deuteronomy · Jan 7, 2019

crossnote said:

Hi again Crossnote, along with @Sherril, I think you asked an important and very interesting question (one that I had never considered before actually), so thank you for that

While we are clearly called to witness, to evangelize, to make disciples, and to be apologists for the Christian faith to the lost in this world, it seems (so far anyway) that we are rarely called to pray for the lost. And yet, as you also pointed out above, the idea that we do so seems instinctive to most of us

Thanks again!

~Deut

crossnote · Jan 7, 2019

Ignorun said:

Yes but that again is referring to a group, not an individual. ('they')

crossnote · Jan 7, 2019

Deuteronomy said:

Hi Crossnote, it seems to me that defining any group by the beliefs of those on the fringe is ~never~ a good idea.

No one, for instance, would say that the AoG is defined by the teachings of Jim Jones (even though he was an AoG pastor), well, save a detractor perhaps, whose hated for the denomination allows them to feel somehow justified in the midst of their lies and deceit, even as a Christian.

So it is where Calvinism is concerned.

I can understand and have patience with the few who hold to only 3 or 4 points of the Doctrines of Grace while, at the same time, claiming to be Calvinists, but considering what Hyper-Calvinists believe/teach, not only are they ~not~ Calvinists, I wonder if they can rightly be defined as Christians ... yet it's their errant, heretical (blasphemous) beliefs that are often touted as the core beliefs of mainstream Calvinism/Reformed Theology, particularly out here in the world of online Christianity.

This should not be.

It's true, of course (to a degree anyway), that there are a number of varying beliefs within Calvinism. That said, the fringe groups that you describe as "camps" may exist, but no Calvinist I know of would include them within the pale of Calvinism. It would be similar to insisting that the core beliefs of Arminianism are Universalism, Open Theism and Hyper-Grace, or that Universalists, Open Theists and Hyper-Grace believers make up "camps" within Arminianism, which is hardly the case

~Deut

I realized I picked the extremes but it was to show the wide spectrum which includes all that is in between.

JaumeJ · Jan 8, 2019

crossnote said:

You have me trying to remember. I have thunk and thunk to no avail....I know in the Epistles we are told to pray fro the assemblies of the Body of Christ, but as for specifics, I cannot think of any being named to be prayedj for.

I do believe in the deepest of my heart that it is good, even recommended to pray for any and all, those who ae "saved" and those who are not.

Praying for the Unsaved

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