poll can a person still come out of hell. mutiple votes allowed

[eternally-gratefull]

Considering one of the initial poll responses includes: "hell can also be a place on earth for a sinner" and some translations don't differentiate between Hades and the place of fire, what you claim is not necessarily the case.

If you are claiming hell should only be considered the place of fire, then your position is that no one is currently in hell?

You do not read what I post very much do you?

punishment or the penalty of sin is death. Not hell

Hell is just the final resting place of those who remain dead because of sin, because they have rejected the one who could have saved them. Christ.

Dude the Greek in rev 20 is hades not hell
no one is in hell yet
hell is the lake of fire. It is where death and hades are cast

why would you ask such a question?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think anyone here was disputing the Lake of Fire as a final destination. The question comes back to Hades and whether one's fate is sealed (destined for the Lake of Fire) if they wake up tormented in Hades. My position is that the text isn't clear whether that is the case or whether salvation could be found while in Hades (salvation found after death). The implication of salvation after death (if true) is that the rich man in Hades could find salvation and have his name in the book of life come judgement (avoid the Lake of Fire).

Your comment before was: "rejection of jesus in this lifetime and still hope to get out of hell in the next?"

Your question could apply to the rich man in Hades if the afterlife is considered the "next life". Why would we assume that the rich man couldn't find Christ? I haven't found the arguments against the possibility of salvation after death very compelling so far.

No one gets out of Hades either my friend

Hades is delivered to Christ for judgment. Hades is cast into the lake of fire.

Once you breath your last. Any hope of salvation is lost.

Who is going to deny Christ in hades? NO ONE

 

[de-emerald]

Hades is from the Greek mythology's name for the bode of the dead.

Hell, as a name , is derived from then name for the home of the dead Hel is from the Norse influence.
These names are used to substituting the word sheol, the Hebrew place where the deceased sleep in the dust. There is also the name Hoelle, Germanic, related to the same.

The idea of a hell being the eternal abode of fire comes from the lake of fire yet to come.

Everyone, go ahead and listen to each other though, but do not study the places' names, gosh, there would be no confusion were all to do so.
Googled: Proto-Germanic * xalja-wītjan (or * halja-wītjan) is reconstructed from Old Norse hel-víti 'hell', Old English helle-wíte 'hell-torment, hell', Old Saxon helli-wīti 'hell', and the Middle High German feminine noun helle-wīze.

@Angela53510 @eternally-gratefull @CS1 @Gardenias @Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @Runningman
@Webers.Home @p_rehbein @Poinsetta @CherieR @montana123 @Magenta

Sir im talking about the existing hell, the hell where people are burning in right now. not the hell fire to come i realise there is no escape from that fire but is that fire also for people or is it Just for satan and his demons ?.. so the op question is based on the existing hell fire where people are burning in right now, if anyone wants to change or add another vote they may do..

Sir the existing hell where people are burnin right now should be seen as hell to it is a fire the people in that fire are burning in pain day and night it is a sheol. Maybe you are confused to sir.. because you know all this but yet you imply i serve a mamon instead of asking me if i am confused ?.

 

[de-emerald]

@Angela53510 @eternally-gratefull @CS1 @Gardenias @Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @Runningman
@Webers.Home @p_rehbein @Poinsetta @CherieR @montana123 @Magenta
The final fire as far as i am aware at present has only been created for Satan and his army and those are the names we are told at this moment are destined to go there this means Satan has been judged and at present that fire is only created for him and his army the confusing part here no people have received that judgement yet less we not forget.. The great white throne Judgement for people has not happened yet. so please bear this in mind. The bible says the sea will give up the dead to be judged. Which in my book means people will be released from a hell fire a Sheol to be judged. This means they have a chance in my book. And this is what i want to debate because i feel people could be judged in whilst in the hell fire and not need to be pulled out to be judged. So if somebody has a reasonable explanation for my concern here, then please say so .

I do also realize that people could end up in the final fire that is prepared for Satan. but at the moment that is only a warning and so far that fire has only been created for Satan as he is the only one at present to be going there. Also, does anyone have any thought on whether the existing hell fire where people are burning is any different to the one that will be created for Satan ?. And if so, please provide scripture

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Angela53510 @eternally-gratefull @CS1 @Gardenias @Pilgrimshope @JaumeJ @Runningman
@Webers.Home @p_rehbein @Poinsetta @CherieR @montana123 @Magenta

Sir im talking about the existing hell, the hell where people are burning in right now. not the hell fire to come i realise there is no escape from that fire but is that fire also for people or is it Just for satan and his demons ?.. so the op question is based on the existing hell fire where people are burning in right now, if anyone wants to change or add another vote they may do..

Sir the existing hell where people are burnin right now should be seen as hell to it is a fire the people in that fire are burning in pain day and night it is a sheol. Maybe you are confused to sir.. because you know all this but yet you imply i serve a mamon instead of asking me if i am confused ?.

So hades. Not hell

 

[de-emerald]

So hades. Not hell

hades is a place of rest

So hades. Not hell

im unsure of that question sorry i cant answer you.. as far as i am aware hell and hades have two diffrent meanings... Jesus christ was known to descend into the under world and preach the Gospel to the dead

1 Peter 4:6
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit....

could you quite clearly say this place Jesus went to was hades or hell ? or was it both.. because here we see the dead being able to live in the spirit after Jesus preached to them.

Or was this place not hades but another place ? if you think it was another place other than hades or hell please say what that is befor we head of down another rabit trail

 

[eternally-gratefull]

hades is a place of rest
im unsure of that question sorry i cant answer you.. as far as i am aware hell and hades have two diffrent meanings... Jesus christ was known to descend into the under world and preach the Gospel to the dead

1 Peter 4:6
6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit....

could you quite clearly say this place Jesus went to was hades or hell ? or was it both.. because here we see the dead being able to live in the spirit after Jesus preached to them.

Or was this place not hades but another place ? if you think it was another place other than hades or hell please say what that is befor we head of down another rabit trail

You asked if people can get out of hell

Now you are saying, you meant people get out of Hades.

 

[Jocund]

No one gets out of Hades either my friend

Demonstrate this with scripture. Your claim does not appear to necessarily be the case.

Hades is delivered to Christ for judgment.

Incorrect. The people inhabiting Hades are delivered or "given up". The phrasing in Rev 20 indicates Hades is emptied. The phrasing does not indicate that people are kept in Hades during judgement.

Once you breath your last. Any hope of salvation is lost.

Demonstrate this with scripture. This claim also is not necessarily true.

Who is going to deny Christ in hades? NO ONE

Why would you assume this? Even in the story of the rich man in Hades, Christ doesn't necessarily appear to the inhabitants of Hades. Being in Hades also doesn't grant the person perfect understanding. Why would you assume that everyone would suddenly understand that Jesus is the door?

If your position is that being in Hades necessarily leads to being in the lake of fire, it is necessarily the case that both are functionally the same. Both are places of torment and both would act as a continuum of the same thing. This isn't necessarily the case, but it could be interpreted that way.

Interestingly, as much as you claim that Hades should not be called hell, someone else could claim that only Hades should be called hell and have an equally valid case. For the sake of clarity and smooth conversation we should accept that hell can mean a number of different things. To fruitfully explore the topic we should look at specific scriptural terms such as Hades, Tartarus, Gehenna, and the Lake of Fire rather than argue over what someone feels (without a scriptural basis) should be called "hell" or not.

On that note, I welcome you to look back at my earlier post and review it with a clearer mind:

Can a person come out of Hell? Yes, most Christians would agree that Christ descended into hell (Hades) and on the third day rose again. Also, everyone in hell (Hades) is pulled out on the day of judgement. No one is in Hades forever.

I assume the question was really intended to be: Can a person be sent to hell and find Christ (find salvation) before the judgement?

Hades (hell)? maybe.

Lake of Fire (hell), after the judgement? No.

Some editions of the bible including the KJV don't always make an effort to differentiate between Hades and the Lake of Fire. This can be lead to misconceptions about what scripture actually says.

It is possible that one's fate is sealed at death. The phrase 'first comes death, then judgement' comes up from time to time in these conversations. Some will interpret that it is implied to mean judgement is sealed at the moment of death, others will interpret this simply as a description of chronology and that it is still possible for any conscious mind to find Christ before the judgement.

To my knowledge, scripture never explicitly says that people in the rich man's part of Hades can't reach out to Christ and find salvation. But even then a possibility is not a guarantee. If there was a narrow door for those in Hades, it doesn't mean that many would find it. And it seems to be the case that one's location in Hades is more or less permanent until the day of judgement (the rich man can't cross the divide). After months of talking about this in a different thread, I believe that both interpretations (doomed at death vs. God can save dead people too) are consistent with scripture by themselves.

I personally don't find the doomed at death interpretation to be compelling, as salvation after death could just be another tool in God's toolbox for saving individuals. God works in mysterious ways. Who are we to rule out what God may do?

We see in scripture that even dead people that are saved are subject to remorse and burdensome negative emotions prior to the purification. Being saved and on the path to New Jerusalem isn't painless.

The big cultural issue with this subject is how we respect the dead. In the RCC for instance, for a very long time it was held that suicide was an irredeemable (mortal) sin that would destine one for eternal hellfire. The place of one's burial alongside family would be revoked because they were no longer considered in good standing with the church. Even if they had lived a virtuous Christian life as a loving neighbour right up until the end, the sentiment was that "they are worthless" and that they would never find peace in death. The RCC changed their stance on the subject of suicide in recent history to simply say God works in mysterious ways and it is for God to judge the matter. There is some danger of disturbing the peace between believers by making formulaic and unnecessary claims about who ends up in hell and how the mechanics of hell and salvation work (beyond what scripture actually says). For that reason alone I believe it is fruitful to reject the concept that 'those that enter hell are necessary forever unsaved.'

 

[de-emerald]

You asked if people can get out of hell

Now you are saying, you meant people get out of Hades.

sir now your trying to prove something diffrent.. sir do you believe hades is hell ?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's interesting that you cited Revelation 20:15 but did not include it.

"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." - Revelation 20:13-15 KJV

In Rev 20, verse 13 says hell is emptied. Verse 14 says hell is cast into the Lake of Fire. And then in verse 15 those without their name in the book are cast into the Lake of Fire.

This passage does not state that no one from hell had their name in the book of life. You could interpret that to be the case, but it is not a necessary interpretation.

amen we begin in the book of life and get blotted out later

“Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin―; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:32-33‬ ‭

or we come to the gospel and overcome

“He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:5

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Demonstrate this with scripture. Your claim does not appear to necessarily be the case.



Incorrect. The people inhabiting Hades are delivered or "given up". The phrasing in Rev 20 indicates Hades is emptied. The phrasing does not indicate that people are kept in Hades during judgement.

lol. Dude you keep proving you can't listen to what I say.

when you are ready to have an open honest discussion come talk to me. I can;t deal with this nonsense anymore.
[/QUOTE]

I said those in hades are delivered to Christ. How in Gods name can you take that to having me say no one will get out.

 

[Jocund]

I said those in hades are delivered to Christ. How in Gods name can you take that to having me say no one will get out.

No one gets out of Hades either my friend

Interesting.

 

[de-emerald]

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Quite clearly there are two sides here to hades here where lazarus was also, the first side being where Abraham was and the second side being where the rich man was.. One side i believe is Abrahams bussom as its known the other side is a place of torment and a fire where people are being burned alive at present which indicates that this is a type of hell or a type of Sheol. So at present quite clearly there are two sides here. One being Abrahams bussom and the other a hell fire.. My question is based on this hell fire not the hell fire prepared for Satan.

Ok the scripture says the sea will give up their dead.. Exactly how should we interpretate that ?. Should we interpretate that to mean only the people in Abrahams bussom will be given up ? Or both ?.. firstly i think this should be clearly established to which we can all agree upon other wise everyone is confused and we all go of down rabbit trails

 

[eternally-gratefull]

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Quite clearly there are two sides here to hades here where lazarus was also, the first side being where Abraham was and the second side being where the rich man was.. One side i believe is Abrahams bussom as its known the other side is a place of torment and a fire where people are being burned alive at present which indicates that this is a type of hell or a type of Sheol. So at present quite clearly there are two sides here. One being Abrahams bussom and the other a hell fire.. My question is based on this hell fire not the hell fire prepared for Satan.

Ok the scripture says the sea will give up their dead.. Exactly how should we interpretate that ?. Should we interpretate that to mean only the people in Abrahams bussom will be given up ? Or both ?.. firstly i think this should be clearly established to which we can all agree upon other wise everyone is confused and we all go of down rabbit trails

1. Lazarus was in a place called abrahams busom, or as Jesus called it paradise. Not hades.
2. Jesus told the one theif today you will be with me in paradise
3. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.
4. No believer will enter hades, and no unbeliever will enter paradise.
5. Paradise will br ressurected by Christ, Hades will be delivered to him
8 Paradise will be ressurected to eternal life. Hades will be cast into the lake of fire (hell) with eternal death

 

[de-emerald]

1. Lazarus was in a place called abrahams busom, or as Jesus called it paradise. Not hades.
2. Jesus told the one theif today you will be with me in paradise
3. Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord.
4. No believer will enter hades, and no unbeliever will enter paradise.
5. Paradise will br ressurected by Christ, Hades will be delivered to him
8 Paradise will be ressurected to eternal life. Hades will be cast into the lake of fire (hell) with eternal death

ok no we can have a discussion at last finaly. Ok when you say hades will be cast into a lake of fire should i take that to mean all the people currently in there will be to ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok no we can have a discussion at last finaly. Ok when you say hades will be cast into a lake of fire should i take that to mean all the people currently in there will be to ?

How can we have a conversation when you keep proving you have not heard a word I have said?

Rev 20 says ALL in hades will be delivered to christ

Then it says ALL in hades will be cast to the lake of fire.

I have said this more times that I can count. Yet you still seven to want to question me.. Why is this?

 

[Jocund]

Then it says ALL in hades will be cast to the lake of fire.

No it doesn't.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No it doesn't.

Rev 20 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I suggest you start studying more my friend. You make it to easy.

 

[Jocund]

Rev 20 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I suggest you start studying more my friend. You make it to easy.

Hades is emptied (Rev 20:13). Hades (the place) is cast into the Lake of Fire while empty (Rev 20:14). Then those without their name in the book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:15).

It isn't clear why you would assume that a place being LoF'd implies that everyone previously in that place would be LoF'd too. It is a bewildering and inconsistent leap of logic. When heaven fades away in Rev 21:1 do the former inhabitants of heaven also fade with it? No. So why would you apply that logic to Rev 20:14?

It's fine if that's your interpretation but doesn't falsely claim that scripture explicitly says that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hades is emptied (Rev 20:13). Hades (the place) is cast into the Lake of Fire while empty (Rev 20:14). Then those without their name in the book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev 20:15).

It isn't clear why you would assume that a place being LoF'd implies that everyone previously in that place would be LoF'd too. It is a bewildering and inconsistent leap of logic. When heaven fades away in Rev 21:1 do the former inhabitants of heaven also fade with it? No. So why would you apply that logic to Rev 20:14?

It's fine if that's your interpretation but doesn't falsely claim that scripture explicitly says that.

what are you getting at?

No one is in the lake of fire today. No one is in hell. They are in Hades.

The ;are of fire (hell) is being created for satan and his angels. Hades is sent to that place created for satan and his angels.

The are not delivered from hades and sent back there. This makes absolutely no sense.