Paul And The Law

[marinerscatch]

Why are so many bucking against Paul on the threads??? I've read a few threads where Paul has been blasted here lately and seems like some are pitting Paul against Jesus for some reason.

I've never read where Paul contradicted Jesus or went against him in anyway. If it is there would someone be so kind to point it out???? Because, really, I have never seen it!

Because Paul preached we are saved by Grace, and Christ said we are saved by Mercy. The Disciples, the Council and everyone but Paul followed what Jesus said by claiming we are saved by Mercy. Obviously, the Disciples and Council never knew what Paul was writing. Had they known, I believe they would have corrected Paul.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Acts 28:20 -

"20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain."


2 Timothy 1:16 -

"16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain"

 

[tourist]

"20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to see you, and to speak with you: because that for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain."


2 Timothy 1:16 -

"16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain"[/QUOTE]
We read the verse from 2 Timothy this morning as part of daily devotion, prayer and bible reading.

 

[tourist]

What exactly is the law? Are the 10 commandments the law or just a part of it?

 

[ljs]

Because Paul preached we are saved by Grace, and Christ said we are saved by Mercy. The Disciples, the Council and everyone but Paul followed what Jesus said by claiming we are saved by Mercy. Obviously, the Disciples and Council never knew what Paul was writing. Had they known, I believe they would have corrected Paul.

Wow , you dont understand right division , or that Jesus himself gave Paul the doctrine for us in the age of grace
so sad !

 

[1ofthem]

Because Paul preached we are saved by Grace, and Christ said we are saved by Mercy. The Disciples, the Council and everyone but Paul followed what Jesus said by claiming we are saved by Mercy. Obviously, the Disciples and Council never knew what Paul was writing. Had they known, I believe they would have corrected Paul.

I read an article that stated that Jesus never actually told anyone he loved them either...but we can be sure that he did.

I'm not the best on definitions, but from what I have read mercy means not punishing people according to what they deserve and grace means giving someone something or a gift that they do not deserve...i.e. salvation.

Jesus gave the best gift of all...himself... He came and humbled himself and become flesh and died on a cross for our sins. I don't really think than anyone of us deserved or merited that sacrifice...yet he did it anyway.

So wouldn't that be the very definition of grace? We were saved by his grace.

So I'm really not getting were Paul was contradicting anything Jesus said or did.

 

[marinerscatch]

Wow , you dont understand right division , or that Jesus himself gave Paul the doctrine for us in the age of grace
so sad !

I understand that is what you believe and have been taught. But those letters Paul wrote were to his churches. Only the nicene council deemed them inspirational. And as we proved in another thread, the council also took away/added to scripture. So, if the council was not as godly as they claimed, why do I trust anything else but the Old Testamen, the Gospels, and those who lived with Christ on a day to day basis (Disciples - James - Jude)??

 

[marinerscatch]

1ofthem,

So, you have obeyed Christ by believing upon Him and doing His commands.. Then why do you believe you need Grace to be saved WHEN YOU DID WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ASKED FOR? You do deserve the Mercy and salvation from God because you did do what was asked of you. It's basically a legal contract by God. You do this and I give you eternal life. Well, I have and continue doing what was asked so I deserve the reward because I fulfilled the requirement. So Grace is not necessary because we did as told!!

 

[1ofthem]

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Paul was chosen by God to be His apostle to the Gentiles. (Acts 9) Paul was made an apostle to replace Judas and bring the number back to 12. His message was the new covenant of grace.

That message of grace had gone first to the Jew, then to the Gentiles. Peter was the apostle to the Jews.

That Matthias was chosen by lots in Act 1 did not mean he was apostle. (chosen by men) Each true apostle was PERSONALLY chosen by Jesus Christ.

 

[marinerscatch]

Paul was chosen by God to be His apostle to the Gentiles. (Acts 9) Paul was made an apostle to replace Judas and bring the number back to 12. His message was the new covenant of grace.

That message of grace had gone first to the Jew, then to the Gentiles. Peter was the apostle to the Jews.

That Matthias was chosen by lots in Act 1 did not mean he was apostle. (chosen by men) Each true apostle was PERSONALLY chosen by Jesus Christ.

WRONG!!

Peter had the 11 draw straws and there was someone designated as the 12th.
Just quit with your silliness..

Peter preached THIS JESUS WHOM YE CRUCIFIED !! That is not Grace at all, that is putting the blame where it belongs.

Not sure who taught you such crap, but they made you clearly brainwashed

 

[UnderGrace]

f grace is mixed with law, then it is no longer grace. So we say how do we handle sins of the flesh if there is no law.
It is handled the same way Paul handled it, by the preaching of the gospel.
God's cross is still the only liberator that exists.
Your law keeping, law doing, and law preaching will not set the captive free.

Grace is the liberator, however the law can enslave again if one is not careful.

 

[ljs]

I understand that is what you believe and have been taught. But those letters Paul wrote were to his churches. Only the nicene council deemed them inspirational. And as we proved in another thread, the council also took away/added to scripture. So, if the council was not as godly as they claimed, why do I trust anything else but the Old Testamen, the Gospels, and those who lived with Christ on a day to day basis (Disciples - James - Jude)??

that is not what I have been taught , its what scripture teaches , however you dont rightly divide the word , so you dont get the difference between the dispensations

 

[gb9]

just another " keep the Law to be saved " pile of garbage.

nothing to see here.

but, to the o.p.'s credit, he is being honest about his dislike of Paul.

most of the law-lovers think this, but do not say it.

 

[UnderGrace]

just another " keep the Law to be saved " pile of garbage.

nothing to see here.

but, to the o.p.'s credit, he is being honest about his dislike of Paul.

most of the law-lovers think this, but do not say it.

I read nothing in the OP that indicates a dislike of Paul

 

[gb9]

I read nothing in the OP that indicates a dislike of Paul

you are right, my mistake. I was referring to marinerstach.

my apologizes to the o.p.

 

[p_rehbein]

Colossians 2:14


14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul had several great confrontations in his life which I think were bitter and difficult. Every one of them was over the issue of law.
Paul never had a problem over God's grace. It is the same today, you never hear of those that are in grace kicking others out of their fellowship.

....um........not quite true......

It is always the law that separates and divides us. In law there is only divisiveness because that is the very center of law.
The Apostle Paul had the supreme test of battling law.
When the gospel went to the Gentiles it was a gospel that had no law in it.
It was easy dealing with the Gentiles, but at the same time the Lord told Paul to tell Israel this was their opportunity to be saved also.
This is how the Jewish person comes into the plan of God today. The Kingdom is set aside and will not be restored until the Millennium.

The same message that went to the Gentiles, without the law, also went to Israel.
During Paul's time, two inconceivable things took place.
Paul who knew nothing but the law, converted to God's grace.
At the same time, Paul had to go to a people that were so deeply steeped in law and committed to it that they would kill to maintain their law.
To make sure you hear it clearly, read these words in Ephesians 2:15

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

If grace is mixed with law, then it is no longer grace. So we say how do we handle sins of the flesh if there is no law.
It is handled the same way Paul handled it, by the preaching of the gospel.
God's cross is still the only liberator that exists.
Your law keeping, law doing, and law preaching will not set the captive free.

........Would it NOT be Jesus Christ that is the Liberator?

just saying

 

[p_rehbein]

WRONG!!

Peter had the 11 draw straws and there was someone designated as the 12th.
Just quit with your silliness..

Peter preached THIS JESUS WHOM YE CRUCIFIED !! That is not Grace at all, that is putting the blame where it belongs.

Not sure who taught you such crap, but they made you clearly brainwashed

Methinks Peter and Paul were far closer in their teachings than you would lead us to believe........

2 Peterf 3:15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Because Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles does NOT prove that Peter DID NOT believe in the New Covenant Grace.
In the 3rd and 4th Chapters of Acts, Peter clearly preaches the Gospel of Christ JUST AS did Paul.

 

[BenFTW]

Methinks Peter and Paul were far closer in their teachings than you would lead us to believe........

2 Peterf 3:15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Because Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles does NOT prove that Peter DID NOT believe in the New Covenant Grace.
In the 3rd and 4th Chapters of Acts, Peter clearly preaches the Gospel of Christ JUST AS did Paul.

You'll get no where with him. In every discussion I've encountered Mariner he pits Christ against His apostle, and even pits the apostle Paul against the council, disciples, and so on. I've already provided scripture that clearly reveals they considered Paul a brother in Christ, part of the brethren, and even Peter defended the conversion of the Gentiles through Paul and Barnabas.

 

[BenFTW]

In fact Mariner is peddling false doctrine on this site, very vocally. His opposition to "OSAS" is so entrenched in his beliefs that he finds that people use the apostle Paul's writing to defend it, so Paul's writings must be inferior to the red letters in his bible. He cannot reconcile the words of Christ with the apostle Paul's words (though they be scripture) and so he discounts Paul's words in comparison to Christs.

Go through his posts. Hes always pitting Jesus against Paul. The disciples against Paul. The council against Paul. He stands against God's word sanctimoniously, as he holds dear the words of Christ in the Gospels but questions the validity of Paul's writings (or insinuates such).

He is fanatical in his approach.

JaumeJ is close behind.