Parable of the Barren Fig Tree
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Salvation is always by God's grace in any era.
But we need to appropriate it by faith in every era too, by obeying what God commanded, which varies according to the dispensation.
You are correct, David needed to follow the Law of Moses because that was what God commanded then.
But now, we are commanded to cease from all works and believe in Jesus's death burial and resurrection for our salvation, that is what God commands now. (Romans 4:5).
That is how we show our faith, you can call that the Law of Christ if you prefer to, but that option was not available to David then, as you have also stated.
But we need to appropriate it by faith in every era too, by obeying what God commanded, which varies according to the dispensation.
You are correct, David needed to follow the Law of Moses because that was what God commanded then.
But now, we are commanded to cease from all works and believe in Jesus's death burial and resurrection for our salvation, that is what God commands now. (Romans 4:5).
That is how we show our faith, you can call that the Law of Christ if you prefer to, but that option was not available to David then, as you have also stated.
While I'm not suggesting the Gentiles are addressed in such terms,
I also find it ill-fitting to read the word "Israel" into places where the phrase "fig tree" is used (in the passages you pointed out).
IOW, I do NOT find that it "fits" to read 1Ki4:25 (for example) as saying "Throughout the days of Solomon, Judah and Israel lived in safety from Dan to Beersheba, each man under his own vine and his own ISRAEL [/fig tree]"
Um, no.
I also find it ill-fitting to read the word "Israel" into places where the phrase "fig tree" is used (in the passages you pointed out).
IOW, I do NOT find that it "fits" to read 1Ki4:25 (for example) as saying "Throughout the days of Solomon, Judah and Israel lived in safety from Dan to Beersheba, each man under his own vine and his own ISRAEL [/fig tree]"
Um, no.
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ah okay you are done. if you are making a point you do need to prove it. but its ok you concede you dont know anything and you cant read and cant understand the bible because you arent a jew. glad to know we can all ignore your future posts as worthless 
(unless its st.paul's letters you guys mastered those ok? even gentiles have reading capabilities for those)
your doctrine that removes most of the new testament from being to us, creates works for salvation in different times and two different gospels as well.
(unless its st.paul's letters you guys mastered those ok? even gentiles have reading capabilities for those)your doctrine that removes most of the new testament from being to us, creates works for salvation in different times and two different gospels as well.
ah okay you are done. if you are making a point you do need to prove it. but its ok you concede you dont know anything and you cant read and cant understand the bible because you arent a jew. glad to know we can all ignore your future posts as worthless that it is. (unless its st.paul's letters you guys mastered those ok? even gentiles have reading capabilities for those)
your doctrine that removes most of the new testament from being to us, creates works for salvation in different times and two different gospels as well.
that it is. (unless its st.paul's letters you guys mastered those ok? even gentiles have reading capabilities for those)your doctrine that removes most of the new testament from being to us, creates works for salvation in different times and two different gospels as well.
I understand the difficulty you have in accepting it. Its okay, you are still saved so long as you believe in Jesus's death burial and resurrection, which is the gospel unto salvation valid now for everyone.
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For your point 2, if you believe that the grace dispensation or the Body of Christ began at Acts 2, how do you account for this reading that Jews who believed that Jesus is their Messiah are expected to
The most popular reply I have heard so far is that, Ananias and Sapphira are not "true believers". Is that your view too?
- Keep the Law (Acts 10:28, Acts 21:20, Acts 22:12)
- Share all their possessions (Acts 4:32, based on what Jesus taught them in Luke 12:33)
- Face possible death by God for breaking the law (Acts 5:4-5)
The most popular reply I have heard so far is that, Ananias and Sapphira are not "true believers". Is that your view too?
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That is pure speculation. Everything that we read in that context shows that they were true believers who allowed their old nature (or Satan) to influence them. This is not peculiar to them, since Christians are exhorted to walk in the Spirit and mortify the flesh.
Ananias and Sapphira experienced what the apostle John calls "the sin unto death" -- the premature physical death of a believer for sin. Paul also mentions this kind of death.
Ananias and Sapphira experienced what the apostle John calls "the sin unto death" -- the premature physical death of a believer for sin. Paul also mentions this kind of death.
How about... God will bring prosperity before destruction to eliminate the excuse that they didn't have the resources needed to do what he'd asked.
The fact that we're discussing these things on electronic devices is one evidence that we've been receiving that prosperity.
With Love in Jesus,
Kelby
The fact that we're discussing these things on electronic devices is one evidence that we've been receiving that prosperity.
With Love in Jesus,
Kelby
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I think it is also related to the story of the servants keeping the master's field...once it started producing, they got greedy instead of busy. That strategy didn't end well. Luke 20:9-17
And also of the idea of a field that drinks in the rain and produces will be blessed. But a field that drinks in the water and seems to simply expect more...will be cursed. Hebrews 6:7-8
It's in the OT, too. Isaiah 5:1-7.
I think it applies to more than just one group of people...just like the parable would have been true of any fruit tree or nut tree.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
And also of the idea of a field that drinks in the rain and produces will be blessed. But a field that drinks in the water and seems to simply expect more...will be cursed. Hebrews 6:7-8
It's in the OT, too. Isaiah 5:1-7.
I think it applies to more than just one group of people...just like the parable would have been true of any fruit tree or nut tree.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Trees in scripture can represent people and countries. The Fig tree represents Israel just as the Ceder represents Lebanon.
Jesus knew he would be rejected by the Sanhedrin. Before the start of Christs ministry John the baptist warned them that an
axe laid at the foot of the trees. Israel was given a generation to repent and most of them ignored the warnings Jesus gave them
through his parables and the Apostles ministry.
When Jesus cursed a Fig Tree it wasn't due to a temper tantrum but a sign of what would happen to Israel. The main point is not about how much faith we need but that the tree represented the country. A country that had not born fruit of repentance.
If though had known even thou at least in this thy day
the things that which belong unto thy peace but now
they are hid from thy eyes. For the days shall come upon thee
and compass thee around and keep thee in on every side And
shall lay thee even with the ground and thy children within
thee and they shall not leave one stone upon another because
though knewest not the time of thy visitation
Luke 19: 42=44 KJV
But Jesus turning unto them said Daughters of Jerusalem
weep not for me but for yourselves and for your children
For behold the days are coming in which they will say
Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never and
the paps which never gave suck. Then they shall begin
to say to the mountains fall on us and to the hills
cover us. For if they do these things in a green tree
what shall be done in a dry
Luke 33: 28-31 KJV
All power is given unto me in heaven and on earth
go ye therefore and teach all nations baptising them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Ghost
Matthew 28: 19 KJV
Jesus knew he would be rejected by the Sanhedrin. Before the start of Christs ministry John the baptist warned them that an
axe laid at the foot of the trees. Israel was given a generation to repent and most of them ignored the warnings Jesus gave them
through his parables and the Apostles ministry.
When Jesus cursed a Fig Tree it wasn't due to a temper tantrum but a sign of what would happen to Israel. The main point is not about how much faith we need but that the tree represented the country. A country that had not born fruit of repentance.
If though had known even thou at least in this thy day
the things that which belong unto thy peace but now
they are hid from thy eyes. For the days shall come upon thee
and compass thee around and keep thee in on every side And
shall lay thee even with the ground and thy children within
thee and they shall not leave one stone upon another because
though knewest not the time of thy visitation
Luke 19: 42=44 KJV
But Jesus turning unto them said Daughters of Jerusalem
weep not for me but for yourselves and for your children
For behold the days are coming in which they will say
Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never and
the paps which never gave suck. Then they shall begin
to say to the mountains fall on us and to the hills
cover us. For if they do these things in a green tree
what shall be done in a dry
Luke 33: 28-31 KJV
All power is given unto me in heaven and on earth
go ye therefore and teach all nations baptising them
in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the
Holy Ghost
Matthew 28: 19 KJV
Sometimes we can tell a lot about a particular parable by its surrounding context/chpt/section.
From chpt 13 -
Jesus Heals a Woman on the Sabbath
10 One Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11 and a woman there had been disabled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was hunched over and could not stand up straight. 12 When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” 13 Then He laid His hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and began to glorify God.
14 But the synagogue leader was indignant that Jesus had healed on the Sabbath. “There are six days for work,” he told the crowd. “So come and be healed on those days and not on the Sabbath.”
15 “You hypocrites!” the Lord replied, “Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it to water? 16 Then should not this daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, be released from her bondage on the Sabbath day?”
17 When Jesus said this, all His adversaries were humiliated. And the whole crowd rejoiced at all the glorious things He was doing.
[...]
Lament over Jerusalem
(Matthew 23:37-39)
31 At that very hour, some Pharisees came to Jesus and told Him, “Leave this place and get away, because Herod wants to kill You.”
32 But Jesus replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘Look, I will keep driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach My goal.’ 33 Nevertheless, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next [/following] day, for it is not admissible for a prophet to perish outside of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling. 35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. And I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’
From chpt 13 -
Jesus Heals a Woman on the Sabbath
10 One Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11 and a woman there had been disabled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was hunched over and could not stand up straight. 12 When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said, “Woman, you are set free from your infirmity.” 13 Then He laid His hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and began to glorify God.
14 But the synagogue leader was indignant that Jesus had healed on the Sabbath. “There are six days for work,” he told the crowd. “So come and be healed on those days and not on the Sabbath.”
15 “You hypocrites!” the Lord replied, “Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it to water? 16 Then should not this daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, be released from her bondage on the Sabbath day?”
17 When Jesus said this, all His adversaries were humiliated. And the whole crowd rejoiced at all the glorious things He was doing.
[...]
Lament over Jerusalem
(Matthew 23:37-39)
31 At that very hour, some Pharisees came to Jesus and told Him, “Leave this place and get away, because Herod wants to kill You.”
32 But Jesus replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘Look, I will keep driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach My goal.’ 33 Nevertheless, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next [/following] day, for it is not admissible for a prophet to perish outside of Jerusalem.
34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling. 35 Look, your house is left to you desolate. And I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’
Not particularly
Just like I don't try to read much into the number of fish and loaves as compared to the number of people fed or number of baskets gathered afterwards. I had tried to discover some ratio of comparison but thank God he chose numbers that don't seem to relate, and ran the scenario twice to further show that any ratio in the first set of numbers has no bearing on the next occurrence. That helps us avoid the minutiae and hopefully gather the greater meaning.
The important point of the miracles of feeding the multitudes wasn't some hidden meaning in the numbers but rather that God will provide for any need (if we're willing to have compassion on others; willing to acknowledge and use what little we DO have; and are willing to take the whole situation to God, asking IN FAITH for him to provide for the actual needs).
That could have been summarized by saying "have a working faith", but people seem to misunderstand what steps are involved for faith to actually be allowed to work.
Another important thing is to be able to convert a lesson in one area into action and real deliverance in another area. The disciples failed to do this with the fish and loaves lessons. A few hours later they found themselves in a new predicament (on the boat in the storm) and were supposed to use what they'd learned and take control of the situation (and storm). Jesus even stayed on shore to allow them space to step up. They reverted to fear instead. Lol. So Jesus had to, once again, show them how not to freak out at seemingly impossible situations (by walking on the water without so much as a boat..lol). The bible even explains that they failed because they'd failed to internalize the lesson from the loaves.
Mark 6:44-52
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Just like I don't try to read much into the number of fish and loaves as compared to the number of people fed or number of baskets gathered afterwards. I had tried to discover some ratio of comparison but thank God he chose numbers that don't seem to relate, and ran the scenario twice to further show that any ratio in the first set of numbers has no bearing on the next occurrence. That helps us avoid the minutiae and hopefully gather the greater meaning.
The important point of the miracles of feeding the multitudes wasn't some hidden meaning in the numbers but rather that God will provide for any need (if we're willing to have compassion on others; willing to acknowledge and use what little we DO have; and are willing to take the whole situation to God, asking IN FAITH for him to provide for the actual needs).
That could have been summarized by saying "have a working faith", but people seem to misunderstand what steps are involved for faith to actually be allowed to work.
Another important thing is to be able to convert a lesson in one area into action and real deliverance in another area. The disciples failed to do this with the fish and loaves lessons. A few hours later they found themselves in a new predicament (on the boat in the storm) and were supposed to use what they'd learned and take control of the situation (and storm). Jesus even stayed on shore to allow them space to step up. They reverted to fear instead. Lol. So Jesus had to, once again, show them how not to freak out at seemingly impossible situations (by walking on the water without so much as a boat..lol). The bible even explains that they failed because they'd failed to internalize the lesson from the loaves.
Mark 6:44-52
Love in Jesus,
Kelby