Our new relationship to the law.

justbyfaith · Oct 16, 2021

The fruit of the Spirit is love; and setting aside time to spend with God does exhibit love for Him.

Please note that I am not of the legalistic opinion that one has to worship God or rest on a specific day of the week and that there is no flexibility as to what day of the week that will be. Personally, I consider every day alike; since I am retired.

But if I were still on the work force, I would very likely set aside Saturday to rest and would still go to church on Sunday.

Because if God said that he rested on a particular day, why wouldn't I set aside that very day to also rest?

I want to be on the same page as God.

BroTan · Oct 17, 2021

TMS said:

Jesus was always being inquired of by the Jews for a sign. He gave them one in reference to His death and resurrection. He told them that just like Jonas, He would be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights. In the Gospel of John Jesus again gave the Jews a sign by telling them if this temple was destroyed He would raise it up in 3 days. Jesus was referring to His body.

(Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So according to the word of God, can you get three days and three nights from Friday afternoon to Sunday Morning?

BroTan · Oct 17, 2021

justbyfaith said:

I don't think so in fact let's see what happen concerning the Sabbath day after the death of Jesus, even though Jesus is who you should be following, Jesus custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4: 14-16)

Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

justbyfaith · Oct 17, 2021

@BroTan, What do you say to the fact that Jesus violated the letter of the sabbath day law in John 5:16-18?

Magenta · Oct 17, 2021

justbyfaith said:

The fruit of the Spirit is love; and setting aside time to spend with God does exhibit love for Him.

Please note that I am not of the legalistic opinion that one has to worship God or rest on a specific day of the week and that there is no flexibility as to what day of the week that will be. Personally, I consider every day alike; since I am retired.

But if I were still on the work force, I would very likely set aside Saturday to rest and would still go to church on Sunday.

Because if God said that he rested on a particular day, why wouldn't I set aside that very day to also rest?

I want to be on the same page as God.

We find our rest in Christ

For Jesus is our Sabbath rest...

justbyfaith · Oct 17, 2021

Magenta said:

Amen...Matthew 11:28-30.

Grandpa · Oct 17, 2021

justbyfaith said:

You think you can emulate and produce these fruit of the Spirit by YOUR knowledge and work?

What did God do on day 8? Day 14?

Your traditions don't put you on the same "page" as God.

But, if that's what you want to do, then you are free in Christ to do it.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Try to remember the do not be entangled part.

justbyfaith · Oct 17, 2021

Of course as a man who is under the New Covenant, the law has been written on my heart and mind (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6).

This is true freedom (John 8:31-36, 1 John 3:4, Romans 6).

BroTan · Oct 17, 2021

justbyfaith said:

Let's first go to 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

We see Jesus did no sin, and the letter refers more to animal sacrificial laws, not the Ten Commandments. Let's read John 5:
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Now Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

So yes Jesus heal people on the sabbath day and so forth, And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. (Mark 3: 1-4)

Peter says that Jesus committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: You Should be following Jesus step, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: but you are doing the opposite.

justbyfaith · Oct 17, 2021

BroTan said:

Let's first go to 1 Peter 2: 21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22 who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23 who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

We see Jesus did no sin, and the letter refers more to animal sacrificial laws, not the Ten Commandments. Let's read John 5:
16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Now Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday).

So yes Jesus heal people on the sabbath day and so forth, And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. (Mark 3: 1-4)

Peter says that Jesus committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: You Should be following Jesus step, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: but you are doing the opposite.

I am doing the opposite by believing that Jesus is my sabbath rest? that He is the fulfillment of the sabbath? (Matthew 11:28-30).

You consider the seventh day to be above all others; I consider every day to be alike.

Let both of us be fully convinced in his own mind.

And I will receive you; but not to doubtful disputations.

Grandpa · Oct 18, 2021

justbyfaith said:

How can you not be entangled with the yoke of bondage if the yoke of bondage is what is written on your heart???

(Galatians 5:1)

Its a bait and switch that legalists use because they WANT to stay under the law and can't fathom not being under the law.

(2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

How can a person be dead to the law if that same law is written on their hearts?

(Galatians 2:19)

This circular reasoning that legalists use doesn't actually make any sense and contradicts scripture.

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

Is this not scripture, @Grandpa?

Heb 8:8, For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9, Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10, For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

In saying that we are not justified by the law, God is not justifying disobedience to His word.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 18, 2021

Grandpa said:

Sadly. Some people just can;t get out of their own way.

I think scripture says it perfectly,

proverbs 16:25
There is a way that seems right to aman, But its end is the way of death.

The law and obedience seems right to everyone. You want to make your leaders and Gods happy and respect you. Obey them.

Sadly, This way may seem right. But it refuses to acknowledge we can not live up to Gods standard. The law. Which according to Our flesh. Seems to be the way to God. Because that is what God wants. Is in fact the way to death. Because no one can love up to that standard As james said, if we keep al the law. Yet just STUMBLE in one point (it was not even intentional) we are found guilty of that very law. The curse of which is death.

People want to be entangles to the yoke of the law because they think in their flesh they can handle it. The pharisees did this. Christ told them how foolish they were. They crucified him. Paul in galations continued to tell them how foolish they were. They too got angry and did all they can to have him killed.

Lawyers don’t like to be told how they can’t keep the law. So they will attack, tell you how much you love sin. How unworthy you are puffing their chests as if they are so righteous while you are so sinful

They forget. The sinner went home justified. The lawyer went to hell (unless like Saul/Paul Nicodemus and others, they repented and came to christ)

Paul; is the example. Because paul was that pharisee who pumped his chest. He had the right to call people fools. Because he repented of his foolishness (he was there when they stones Stephen)

There was a woe given to these lawyers But sadly, in their pride. They can’t hear it or understand it, Because they can not see it is direc tech to them

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

Those who are born of God "do not" and "cannot" commit sin (1 John 3:9).

We are not obligated to walk according to the flesh (Romans 8:12 (NLT)).

If we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, then the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).

Yet if we stumble in one point of the law, we are breaking all of it.

Therefore, if we stumble at one point, how is the righteousness of the law fulfilled in us?

We are told in holy scripture that we do not have to fall (Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 john 2:10, Romans 8:12).

Of course no one can be perfectly obedient to the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

However, we are no longer bound by the oldness of the letter but are free to obey the newness of the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

Grandpa said:

The seed of the word of God must be planted in order to produce a plant that has fruit on it.

And, we are indeed able to plant those seeds in our own lives if we spend time reading the word of God.

See Romans 10:17.

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

Grandpa said:

They are dead to the law as concerning condemnation and the wet paint principle;

They are not dead to it as concerning obedience.

If anyone is born again, they do not violate any of the laws that are spoken of in Romans 13:8-10 as being the fulfillment of "love thy neighbor as thyself".

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-wet-paint-principle-freedom-from-sin.201727/

BroTan · Oct 18, 2021

justbyfaith said:

In (Matthew 5:17), Jesus made the statement Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. He came not to destroy the law, or the prophets, but to fulfill. (18), Jesus Himself states that as long as heaven and earth exist not one jot or not one tittle will pass from the law until all is fulfilled. Now you will find in a concordance that jot and tittle mean letter. Here Jesus clearly states that not one letter of the law will be changed as long as heaven and earth exist. We know that the law came from the Old Testament so based solely on (Matthew 5:18), it nor the Old Testament can not be done away with. There is clearly a discrepancy between what is being taught and what the scriptures say. The fact, that Jesus came to fulfill is known, because that is what is stated in (Matthew 5:17).

All has not been fulfilled, the same heaven and earth is still here. Jesus has not made his second coming which was spoken by the prophets. Let's take a look at some prophesy that have to happen. Let's go to Zechariah 14:1, Behold the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the mist of thee. 4, And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south.

Joel 1: 1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. 10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: 11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

In Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

So all these things have to happen and much more. So the Law and the prophets are still very good and righteous to this day. This includes the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week. Prophecy declared that we would forget to keep the Sabbath holy.
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy", is what the Lord commands us in the "Ten Commandments", see Ex.20:8-11.Yes, the world has forgotten to sanctify the Sabbath as a whole and that is the reason why we (the world) are in such a terrible state today.

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, change the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the cursed devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." (Isaiah 24:5-6).

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

I would only point out what it says in Romans 7:6, @BroTan.

Rom 7:6, But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

justbyfaith · Oct 18, 2021

eternally-gratefull said:

I suppose that if I commit adultery with my neighbor's wife, kill my neighbor, steal from my neighbor, bear false witness against my neighbor, and/or covet my neighbor's belongings, that the end thereof is the way of life.

Do you see how ridiculous your position is?

Paul teaches us that we are not justified by the law and that if anyone thinks that they are justified by the law, they have fallen from grace.

However, if I know that I know that I know that I am justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, I can move forward and onward towards "obedience to the faith" (Romans 1:5) and "the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26).

If you read 1 John 3:4,9, I think that you might see that those who are born of God are law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven. These are not the only verses that substantiate this.

What you need to realize is that if we love Jesus, we will obey His commandments (John 14:15, John 15:10). And Jesus is the God also of the Old Testament impaho.

The motivation is not to save yourself through works. It is out of gratitude because He has saved you.

I believe it is a false teaching to discourage believers from being obedient to the moral tenets of the law.

Would you exhort Christians to become murderers?

The love of God in the Christian's heart means that he will never violate that law in the ten commandments; or any other law (Romans 13:8-10)

Our new relationship to the law.

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