OSAS= House Built on Sand
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like most legalists, ralph correctly states that one has to maintain their belief and trust in Christ to be saved, but then, he keeps going and attaches works. that is how legalism disguises itself- starts off with sound theology, then ends up with " well, if you REALLY have the Spirt, then one will.. or won't...…. attaching good works to grace salvationism.
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What I believe you are saying is that when a believer sins, the believer remains regenerated and the Holy Spirit remains in the believer.
If the believer no longer believes, the Holy Spirit leaves the believer, the believer becomes un-regenerate, and the Holy Spirit is the One Who determines when He will leave the believer.
If the believer no longer believes, the Holy Spirit leaves the believer, the believer becomes un-regenerate, and the Holy Spirit is the One Who determines when He will leave the believer.
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Born again is a past tense reality.
The spiritual birth occurred when we obeyed the Gospel, in which we were given the power to become sons of God.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
The question is do we have eternal life in us today?
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
JPT
The spiritual birth occurred when we obeyed the Gospel, in which we were given the power to become sons of God.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
The question is do we have eternal life in us today?
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
JPT
12 For the word of God is alive and active.Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight.Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
The Sin and Doom of Ungodly People
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, WHO PERVERT THE GRACE OG OUR GOD and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding townsgave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, REJECT AUTHORITY and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “THE LORD REBUKE YOU!” 10 Yet THESE PEOPLE SLANDER WHATEVER THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.
11 WOE TO THEM! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.
12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain,blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—TWICE DEAD.13 They are wild waves of the sea, FOAMING UP THEIR SHAME; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 THESE PEOPLE ARE GRUMBLERS and FAULTFINDERS; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and FLATTER OTHERS FOR THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE.
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.18 They said to you, “IN THE LAST TIMES THERE WILL BE SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts AND DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT.
The Sin and Doom of Ungodly People
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, WHO PERVERT THE GRACE OG OUR GOD and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding townsgave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, REJECT AUTHORITY and heap abuse on celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “THE LORD REBUKE YOU!” 10 Yet THESE PEOPLE SLANDER WHATEVER THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them.
11 WOE TO THEM! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam’s error; they have been destroyed in Korah’s rebellion.
12 These people are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain,blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted—TWICE DEAD.13 They are wild waves of the sea, FOAMING UP THEIR SHAME; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.
14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” 16 THESE PEOPLE ARE GRUMBLERS and FAULTFINDERS; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and FLATTER OTHERS FOR THEIR OWN ADVANTAGE.
17 But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.18 They said to you, “IN THE LAST TIMES THERE WILL BE SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts AND DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT.
1 John 3:
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Keep going. Don’t stop there because nothing will change the fact that a brother who doesn’t love no longer has eternal life.
And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 3:3
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Christian’s who hate their brother no longer have eternal life.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3
JPT
And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
1 John 3:3
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15
Christian’s who hate their brother no longer have eternal life.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3
JPT
15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wisefor salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
4 This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. 2 Now it is required that those wqwho have been given a e must prove faithful.3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
4 This, then, is how you ought to regard us: as servants of Christ and as those entrusted with the mysteries God has revealed. 2 Now it is required that those wqwho have been given a e must prove faithful.3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.
6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other. 7 For who makes you different from anyone else? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as though you did not?
U
Oh because........... prior to the Reformation things were just wonderful. 
Yes sir, sound doctrine of works, ongoing excruciating self flagellation for doubt and sin and the best part of all the people could pay to have their sins erased so they could spend less time in purgatory.
I am sure many of those people were hoping it was the last days.
Oh yes the present day church is in an awful state indeed, we actually know the saved person is saved
Yes sir, sound doctrine of works, ongoing excruciating self flagellation for doubt and sin and the best part of all the people could pay to have their sins erased so they could spend less time in purgatory.
I am sure many of those people were hoping it was the last days.
Oh yes the present day church is in an awful state indeed, we actually know the saved person is saved
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Just throwin' that out there. God's Word says we can know that when He shall appear, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
Sometimes it appears that what you are saying is that no one can know until the end. But God assures us we can know. And that's not the only place He tells us we can know.
Sometimes it appears that what you are saying is that no one can know until the end. But God assures us we can know. And that's not the only place He tells us we can know.
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The scripture in Hebrews, which is what I think you are speaking from says that those in unbelief remain that way because they didn't enter in to His rest.
Speaking of Israel in the wilderness.
They heard His Voice but hardened their heart.
They did not understand His ways. Harsh taskmaster comes to mind. Those who believe Father isnt merciful and full of grace. Nor did they understand the Cross of Jesus. Do this, don't do that comes to mind. So they could not rest in the "provision" He showed in His works.
Or sin deceived. A wrong thinking of sin as pleasure. Not seeing the destruction. No rest.
We who have begun our walk and have heard His Voice, said yes to the Master could be trapped by any one of those things for a time. But, in this age of grace we have the promise rooted in the fact that God is faithful to us, even when we aren't faithful, and He will finish the work He began in us. So trust His Words, trust Holy Spirit, and rest in this great salvation that Jesus has obtained and finished for us.
We are admonished then to remain in the rest of His work, and to continue to rest.
Our part is to trust and believe (obey) the promises and war against the lies of the enemy. (Walking in the Word (Spirit) by speaking what God says about Himself and His nature (know Him) and about us.(being known of Him.
In order to partake of the Christ. This means partaking of the anointing upon us to do the works of God. Dunamis power.
Speaking of Israel in the wilderness.
They heard His Voice but hardened their heart.
They did not understand His ways. Harsh taskmaster comes to mind. Those who believe Father isnt merciful and full of grace. Nor did they understand the Cross of Jesus. Do this, don't do that comes to mind. So they could not rest in the "provision" He showed in His works.
Or sin deceived. A wrong thinking of sin as pleasure. Not seeing the destruction. No rest.
We who have begun our walk and have heard His Voice, said yes to the Master could be trapped by any one of those things for a time. But, in this age of grace we have the promise rooted in the fact that God is faithful to us, even when we aren't faithful, and He will finish the work He began in us. So trust His Words, trust Holy Spirit, and rest in this great salvation that Jesus has obtained and finished for us.
We are admonished then to remain in the rest of His work, and to continue to rest.
Our part is to trust and believe (obey) the promises and war against the lies of the enemy. (Walking in the Word (Spirit) by speaking what God says about Himself and His nature (know Him) and about us.(being known of Him.
In order to partake of the Christ. This means partaking of the anointing upon us to do the works of God. Dunamis power.
Yes, in our Spirit we have eternal life. It's our soul that is being saved as live and grow up into Him. God is more patient with us then we give Him credit for, and He's never angry with us. Sometimes babyhood lasts longer for one depending on the view one has of Father. Is He a God of love or a God of wrath. Will the boom come down on our heads when we fail? The devil is such a liar.