Oneness or trinity, Is Jesus God or man?
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the facts of the matter are that both in the old testament and the new, 3 'entities' ((it's usually said 'persons' but IMHO there is simply a catastrophic, unavoidable failure of language on this subject)) are treated as God, and God is in no uncertain terms one.
OT:
the LORD is God
The Angel of she LORD is God
the Spirit of the LORD is God
NT:
the Father is God
the Son is God
the Holy Ghost is God
and the fact is that this is inexplicably profound, and yet it is true. yes, Christ is God. yes, Christ is human. there is only one God. the Father is God and the Son is God, and their Spirit is God. that's the worldview scripture has, and it's true -- forget human so-called 'common sense' this is how the scripture portrays it.
OT:
the LORD is God
The Angel of she LORD is God
the Spirit of the LORD is God
NT:
the Father is God
the Son is God
the Holy Ghost is God
and the fact is that this is inexplicably profound, and yet it is true. yes, Christ is God. yes, Christ is human. there is only one God. the Father is God and the Son is God, and their Spirit is God. that's the worldview scripture has, and it's true -- forget human so-called 'common sense' this is how the scripture portrays it.
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So why don't you complete the thought and add "AND THE WORD WAS GOD"?
Jesus of Nazareth was God "manifest in the flesh" -- God in a human body as the perfect sinless Man -- the Son of Man. Therefore the Bible says that the Church has been purchased with the blood of God. The Son of Man is also Son of God, who was also the Lamb of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood. (Acts 20:28)
Jesus of Nazareth was God "manifest in the flesh" -- God in a human body as the perfect sinless Man -- the Son of Man. Therefore the Bible says that the Church has been purchased with the blood of God. The Son of Man is also Son of God, who was also the Lamb of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the Church of God, which He hath purchased with His own blood. (Acts 20:28)
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"Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would know My Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him.”
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.
You missed the point! Jesus is the Son the virgin gave birth to and His title is Immanuel, which means "God with us." Immanuel is a title of Jesus, not us. This is what is meant by anyone not professing that Jesus (as God) has come in the flesh.
Did you ignore all of the scriptures that I provided in the previous post that directly call Jesus God? Their meanings cannot be denied! As I stated previously, if you have an employer and employee, they are still equal as human beings.
The Father is spirit, Jesus as God appeared in the flesh as the exact representation of the Father.
Here are the actual words to that scripture:
"Therefore because of this, the Jews were seeking the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but also He was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God."
Here's the thing: If Jesus is not God, then it would mean that He was a created being. Which would mean that a created being paid the penalty for the sins of mankind. No! Jesus had to be God, who alone is Holy, for no created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind.
Jesus, who was with the Father from eternity as God, at the right time became a human being so that He could kin himself with mankind, i.e. to represent us as a human being. While on the earth as a man, Jesus met the righteous requirements of the Law, satisfying it completely and freeing us from it. He took upon Himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying God's wrath against us completely and paid the penalty for every believers sins, as a man.
Just as through Adam all became sinners and are condemned, so also through One man, Jesus Christ, came righteousness and eternal life. Jesus is standing in our place, representing every believer. God the Father sees all believers with the righteousness of Christ because of our faith in His Son.
The reward for sin is death. Jesus paid the penalty for sins, but He himself was not guilty of sin. Since death only has power over those who have sin, then death had no power over Jesus and therefore death could not hold Him. And because of this He resurrected. However, since Jesus paid the penalty for sin, a debt which He didn't owe, He created a credit towards the debt of sin and He is crediting that payment to everyone who has faith in Him. And since believers are no longer guilty of sin, death no longer has power over us either and at the right time all believers will be resurrected just as our Lord was.
It is very important and necessary for you and everyone to believe this, as believing that Jesus is God in the flesh and that He resurrected in the same body that He was buried in, is apart of the gospel.
Just a friendly suggestion that you go back and study those scriptures that I provided which refer to Jesus as being God. Thomas confessed to Jesus "My Lord and my God!" And in response Jesus said, "Thomas, you believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who believe but have not seen." Those who have not seen would be all believers from that time on until the resurrection takes place. If those believe that Jesus is God are blessed, what will be the consequences for those who do not believe?
It is important to understand the principles of these things, which the Holy Spirit reveals to those who diligently search out His word.
Blessings in Christ!
Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus replied, “Philip, I have been with you all this time, and still you do not know Me? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.
You missed the point! Jesus is the Son the virgin gave birth to and His title is Immanuel, which means "God with us." Immanuel is a title of Jesus, not us. This is what is meant by anyone not professing that Jesus (as God) has come in the flesh.
Did you ignore all of the scriptures that I provided in the previous post that directly call Jesus God? Their meanings cannot be denied! As I stated previously, if you have an employer and employee, they are still equal as human beings.
The Father is spirit, Jesus as God appeared in the flesh as the exact representation of the Father.
Here are the actual words to that scripture:
"Therefore because of this, the Jews were seeking the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but also He was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God."
Here's the thing: If Jesus is not God, then it would mean that He was a created being. Which would mean that a created being paid the penalty for the sins of mankind. No! Jesus had to be God, who alone is Holy, for no created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind.
Jesus, who was with the Father from eternity as God, at the right time became a human being so that He could kin himself with mankind, i.e. to represent us as a human being. While on the earth as a man, Jesus met the righteous requirements of the Law, satisfying it completely and freeing us from it. He took upon Himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying God's wrath against us completely and paid the penalty for every believers sins, as a man.
Just as through Adam all became sinners and are condemned, so also through One man, Jesus Christ, came righteousness and eternal life. Jesus is standing in our place, representing every believer. God the Father sees all believers with the righteousness of Christ because of our faith in His Son.
The reward for sin is death. Jesus paid the penalty for sins, but He himself was not guilty of sin. Since death only has power over those who have sin, then death had no power over Jesus and therefore death could not hold Him. And because of this He resurrected. However, since Jesus paid the penalty for sin, a debt which He didn't owe, He created a credit towards the debt of sin and He is crediting that payment to everyone who has faith in Him. And since believers are no longer guilty of sin, death no longer has power over us either and at the right time all believers will be resurrected just as our Lord was.
It is very important and necessary for you and everyone to believe this, as believing that Jesus is God in the flesh and that He resurrected in the same body that He was buried in, is apart of the gospel.
Just a friendly suggestion that you go back and study those scriptures that I provided which refer to Jesus as being God. Thomas confessed to Jesus "My Lord and my God!" And in response Jesus said, "Thomas, you believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who believe but have not seen." Those who have not seen would be all believers from that time on until the resurrection takes place. If those believe that Jesus is God are blessed, what will be the consequences for those who do not believe?
It is important to understand the principles of these things, which the Holy Spirit reveals to those who diligently search out His word.
Blessings in Christ!
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If you look in other post...i did said..the Word WAS GOD...
In the OT...can you kill God manifestation?
"GOD in human body"- i hope u can grasp this when u said this...
Its not that God can just go out in that body..
Its not that the godhead dwell in him spiritually..but bodily
The Word became Flesh....he left immortality..he emptied himself..meaning...all gone.
Before acts 20:28
Act 20:21 KJV Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Repentance towards God (even the Father)
Faith toward Lord Jesus Christ
Two..so who's blood is in 20:28. It was Jesus blood...
In the OT...can you kill God manifestation?
"GOD in human body"- i hope u can grasp this when u said this...
Its not that God can just go out in that body..
Its not that the godhead dwell in him spiritually..but bodily
The Word became Flesh....he left immortality..he emptied himself..meaning...all gone.
Before acts 20:28
Act 20:21 KJV Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Repentance towards God (even the Father)
Faith toward Lord Jesus Christ
Two..so who's blood is in 20:28. It was Jesus blood...
Note: Jesus said he do whatever the Father do...
No one man has seen God and lived...
That is why the Son is the express image of the Father.
[/QUOTE]You missed the point! Jesus is the Son the virgin gave birth to and His title is Immanuel, which means "God with us." Immanuel is a title of Jesus, not us. This is what is meant by anyone not professing that Jesus (as God) has come in the flesh.[/QUOTE]
Following your first statement...We see a man who do whatever the Father do.
[/QUOTE]Did you ignore all of the scriptures that I provided in the previous post that directly call Jesus God? Their meanings cannot be denied! As I stated previously, if you have an employer and employee, they are still equal as human beings.[/QUOTE]
i did not ignore the scriptures you provided...I replied to them and harmonize them.
What verse directly called Jesus God?
[/QUOTE]The Father is spirit, Jesus as God appeared in the flesh as the exact representation of the Father.[/QUOTE]
Exactly God is Spirit...and Jesus is Flesh..
you are trying to portray that the spirit can just go in and out in that body...
The Word became flesh.....its not like one time manifestation like in the old testament...
[/QUOTE]Here are the actual words to that scripture:
"Therefore because of this, the Jews were seeking the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but also He was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God."[/QUOTE]
God is his Father...he is the Son of God..
Philippians 2...He EMPTIED himself...but He can still call God his Father..
[/QUOTE]Here's the thing: If Jesus is not God, then it would mean that He was a created being. Which would mean that a created being paid the penalty for the sins of mankind. No! Jesus had to be God, who alone is Holy, for no created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind.[/QUOTE]
IF Jesus is God...He is immortal and thus cannot die...and paid for the sin...
But we see Jesus who was made lower than the angels to TASTE death for all men.
[/QUOTE]Jesus, who was with the Father from eternity as God, at the right time became a human being so that He could kin himself with mankind, i.e. to represent us as a human being. While on the earth as a man, Jesus met the righteous requirements of the Law, satisfying it completely and freeing us from it. He took upon Himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying God's wrath against us completely and paid the penalty for every believers sins, as a man.[/QUOTE]
that's the point..The Word Became Flesh...
[/QUOTE]Just as through Adam all became sinners and are condemned, so also through One man, Jesus Christ, came righteousness and eternal life. Jesus is standing in our place, representing every believer. God the Father sees all believers with the righteousness of Christ because of our faith in His Son.[/QUOTE]
through one MAN, Jesus Christ...
Even the spirit in you cannot deny that God (Father)...and I quote
"God the Father sees all believers with the righteousness of Christ"
"Because of our Faith in His Son"
There is God and His Christ...
There's the Father and His Son.
[/QUOTE]The reward for sin is death. Jesus paid the penalty for sins, but He himself was not guilty of sin. Since death only has power over those who have sin, then death had no power over Jesus and therefore death could not hold Him. And because of this He resurrected. However, since Jesus paid the penalty for sin, a debt which He didn't owe, He created a credit towards the debt of sin and He is crediting that payment to everyone who has faith in Him. And since believers are no longer guilty of sin, death no longer has power over us either and at the right time all believers will be resurrected just as our Lord was.[/QUOTE]
Jesus taste death...only death cannot hold him forever..because God raised him the third day.
I am having hard time to understand that you believed in his death and resurrection if you believed that death has no power over him...its like he didn't die.
[/QUOTE]It is very important and necessary for you and everyone to believe this, as believing that Jesus is God in the flesh and that He resurrected in the same body that He was buried in, is apart of the gospel.[/QUOTE]
Before the was a man..There was the Word...
And the Word was with God, equal with God..and Was God....
That was....
and the Word became Flesh.....to taste death for all men.
[/QUOTE]Just a friendly suggestion that you go back and study those scriptures that I provided which refer to Jesus as being God. Thomas confessed to Jesus "My Lord and my God!" And in response Jesus said, "Thomas, you believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who believe but have not seen." Those who have not seen would be all believers from that time on until the resurrection takes place. If those believe that Jesus is God are blessed, what will be the consequences for those who do not believe?
It is important to understand the principles of these things, which the Holy Spirit reveals to those who diligently search out His word.
Blessings in Christ![/QUOTE]
Thanks for the suggestion...I too have suggestion...Please watch the video..
or read the book of hebrew...but when you read it this time...try to replace the word "God" with the Word "Father". and you will see it clearly
No one man has seen God and lived...
That is why the Son is the express image of the Father.
[/QUOTE]You missed the point! Jesus is the Son the virgin gave birth to and His title is Immanuel, which means "God with us." Immanuel is a title of Jesus, not us. This is what is meant by anyone not professing that Jesus (as God) has come in the flesh.[/QUOTE]
Following your first statement...We see a man who do whatever the Father do.
[/QUOTE]Did you ignore all of the scriptures that I provided in the previous post that directly call Jesus God? Their meanings cannot be denied! As I stated previously, if you have an employer and employee, they are still equal as human beings.[/QUOTE]
i did not ignore the scriptures you provided...I replied to them and harmonize them.
What verse directly called Jesus God?
[/QUOTE]The Father is spirit, Jesus as God appeared in the flesh as the exact representation of the Father.[/QUOTE]
Exactly God is Spirit...and Jesus is Flesh..
you are trying to portray that the spirit can just go in and out in that body...
The Word became flesh.....its not like one time manifestation like in the old testament...
[/QUOTE]Here are the actual words to that scripture:
"Therefore because of this, the Jews were seeking the more to kill Him, because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but also He was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal to God."[/QUOTE]
God is his Father...he is the Son of God..
Philippians 2...He EMPTIED himself...but He can still call God his Father..
[/QUOTE]Here's the thing: If Jesus is not God, then it would mean that He was a created being. Which would mean that a created being paid the penalty for the sins of mankind. No! Jesus had to be God, who alone is Holy, for no created being could pay the penalty for the sins of mankind.[/QUOTE]
IF Jesus is God...He is immortal and thus cannot die...and paid for the sin...
But we see Jesus who was made lower than the angels to TASTE death for all men.
[/QUOTE]Jesus, who was with the Father from eternity as God, at the right time became a human being so that He could kin himself with mankind, i.e. to represent us as a human being. While on the earth as a man, Jesus met the righteous requirements of the Law, satisfying it completely and freeing us from it. He took upon Himself God's wrath that every believer deserves, satisfying God's wrath against us completely and paid the penalty for every believers sins, as a man.[/QUOTE]
that's the point..The Word Became Flesh...
[/QUOTE]Just as through Adam all became sinners and are condemned, so also through One man, Jesus Christ, came righteousness and eternal life. Jesus is standing in our place, representing every believer. God the Father sees all believers with the righteousness of Christ because of our faith in His Son.[/QUOTE]
through one MAN, Jesus Christ...
Even the spirit in you cannot deny that God (Father)...and I quote
"God the Father sees all believers with the righteousness of Christ"
"Because of our Faith in His Son"
There is God and His Christ...
There's the Father and His Son.
[/QUOTE]The reward for sin is death. Jesus paid the penalty for sins, but He himself was not guilty of sin. Since death only has power over those who have sin, then death had no power over Jesus and therefore death could not hold Him. And because of this He resurrected. However, since Jesus paid the penalty for sin, a debt which He didn't owe, He created a credit towards the debt of sin and He is crediting that payment to everyone who has faith in Him. And since believers are no longer guilty of sin, death no longer has power over us either and at the right time all believers will be resurrected just as our Lord was.[/QUOTE]
Jesus taste death...only death cannot hold him forever..because God raised him the third day.
I am having hard time to understand that you believed in his death and resurrection if you believed that death has no power over him...its like he didn't die.
[/QUOTE]It is very important and necessary for you and everyone to believe this, as believing that Jesus is God in the flesh and that He resurrected in the same body that He was buried in, is apart of the gospel.[/QUOTE]
Before the was a man..There was the Word...
And the Word was with God, equal with God..and Was God....
That was....
and the Word became Flesh.....to taste death for all men.
[/QUOTE]Just a friendly suggestion that you go back and study those scriptures that I provided which refer to Jesus as being God. Thomas confessed to Jesus "My Lord and my God!" And in response Jesus said, "Thomas, you believe because you have seen. Blessed are those who believe but have not seen." Those who have not seen would be all believers from that time on until the resurrection takes place. If those believe that Jesus is God are blessed, what will be the consequences for those who do not believe?
It is important to understand the principles of these things, which the Holy Spirit reveals to those who diligently search out His word.
Blessings in Christ![/QUOTE]
Thanks for the suggestion...I too have suggestion...Please watch the video..
or read the book of hebrew...but when you read it this time...try to replace the word "God" with the Word "Father". and you will see it clearly
i disagree. the overarching context of Philippians 2 ((you're referring to v. 6, He emptied Himself, taking on the form of a bond-servant)) is a context of meekness, not powerlessness. in my opinion what He 'emptied Himself' of is His glory - about which He prayed in John 17. it is 'by the power of an indestructible life' that He is our High Priest, and 'no one takes His life from Him' -- He is the life, at all times when He walked among men immortal, ineffable and omniscient, even having become fully in the likeness of men, tested in every way that we are, yet without sin, being found inscrutable. He laid His own life down to take it up again; He delivered His own spirit to the Father's hands. those aren't things mortality can do.
Philippians 2 is telling us to have this mind which was in Him: to set aside our prerogatives and become the servant of others, thinking more highly of them than of ourselves. i do not read in this chapter that we are told to forsake any power we have, or to make ourselves ignorant, or to abandon the life that is in us. i read that we ought to do nothing for our own glory: that we should empty ourselves of vanity, which in our case would be robbery to make ourselves equal to God, however in His case, is not. He humbled Himself not because He needed to be humbled, but for our sakes - even for us, who do need to be humbled, who are always thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought. He comported Himself so, so much lower than His due!
Philippians 2 is telling us to have this mind which was in Him: to set aside our prerogatives and become the servant of others, thinking more highly of them than of ourselves. i do not read in this chapter that we are told to forsake any power we have, or to make ourselves ignorant, or to abandon the life that is in us. i read that we ought to do nothing for our own glory: that we should empty ourselves of vanity, which in our case would be robbery to make ourselves equal to God, however in His case, is not. He humbled Himself not because He needed to be humbled, but for our sakes - even for us, who do need to be humbled, who are always thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought. He comported Himself so, so much lower than His due!
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how many do you need to see?
we wait for the blessed hope — the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for Himself a people that are His very own, eager to do what is good.
(Titus 2:13-14)
that's all singular grammar there. not waiting for the appearing of two glories or one God and a separate Savior. this is directly calling Jesus "our great God" purifying a people of His own - to be called the people of God. (Titus 2:13-14)
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yes He knows. or else do you think the apostles are speaking falsely when they say to Him "You know all things" ?
when He says 'no one knows the day or hour but only the Father' He is purposefully using the language of the ancient Hebrew betrothal process. we don't understand this because it's not our culture today & the church doesn't teach things anymore; we've become simple and dull and watered down and ignorant.
it is of great value for you to study it; here's a place to start
https://tasc-creationscience.org/article/ancient-jewish-wedding-missing-link-christianity
when He says 'no one knows the day or hour but only the Father' He is purposefully using the language of the ancient Hebrew betrothal process. we don't understand this because it's not our culture today & the church doesn't teach things anymore; we've become simple and dull and watered down and ignorant.
it is of great value for you to study it; here's a place to start
https://tasc-creationscience.org/article/ancient-jewish-wedding-missing-link-christianity
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Luk 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
we see a child...filled with wisdom and with grace of God...(God did not give the spirit to him by measure)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
We see a man Jesus....DECLARED to be Son of God..
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
God (Father) made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
before 2:17:18
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
and last of your verse..
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Jesus is the Son of God (Father)
we see a child...filled with wisdom and with grace of God...(God did not give the spirit to him by measure)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
We see a man Jesus....DECLARED to be Son of God..
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
God (Father) made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
before 2:17:18
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
and last of your verse..
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Jesus is the Son of God (Father)
is it every time someone shows you scripture proving Christ is God, that you brush it aside and bring up some other verse more suited to your understanding?
what's Titus 2:13-14 explicitly calling Jesus Christ? can we get that down pat before we move on?
it's clearly calling Jesus "our great God and Savior" is it not? and it's saying He is calling out and purifying a people specifically "for Himself" which are "His very own" is it not?
so whose people are we called? the people of an exalted man or the people of God? and if we are the people of God and we are the people of the great God and Savior Jesus Christ -- who is He? is it not clear?
what's Titus 2:13-14 explicitly calling Jesus Christ? can we get that down pat before we move on?
it's clearly calling Jesus "our great God and Savior" is it not? and it's saying He is calling out and purifying a people specifically "for Himself" which are "His very own" is it not?
so whose people are we called? the people of an exalted man or the people of God? and if we are the people of God and we are the people of the great God and Savior Jesus Christ -- who is He? is it not clear?
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