One taken,one left. The rapture.

[FreeGrace2]

funny though Martha was wrong about that

Nope. She was dead on.

“Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

……And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭11:23-27, 43-45‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Are you saying that Lazarus was "resurrected on the last day"? Of course he wasn't. In fact, he also didn't get a glorified body then either. What happened to Lazarus WASN'T the "resurrection" that is related to the coming of Christ.

it seemed like Jesus was trying to teach Martha something about the resurrection , and what Martha “knew “ Jesus explained and then did something better …. I wonder if she learned the lesson ?

I'm not sure if you understand.

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

v.24 deals with the 3 tenses of salvation:

past tense: is passed from death to life
present tense: has eternal life
future tense: shall not come into condemnation

v.25 is about spiritually dead people hearing the gospel and believing (shall live). Refers back to v.24

when Jesus speaks the word of life , death has no power at all…..something to consider is More what Jesus said than Martha given her brother rose a few minutes later

The point is that Martha was well aware of the FACT that the resurrection of ALL believers will occur on the "last day". That is when all believers receive a glorified body.

What Jesus did to Lazarus has NOTHING to do with the resurrection on the last day.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

Part II

God's Prophetic Program, and second earthly coming

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of Eternal Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Blessed, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:
Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ 😇 ↑

 

[Thewatchman]

Good Morning my Brother in Christ

Let this Beautiful Truth be your Daily Bread today.

The LORD Jesus Christ was the First Post-Tribber to Rise from the Dead.

You are the second Brother that i have come across that believes: "At the return of Jesus graves are not opening up and dead bodies flesh bodies are not coming out"

#1 - i am here to inquire and hopefully learn
#2 - what helps me to learn is to process scripture and apply it to statements/doctrines/beliefs and therefore DO NOT take offense by me as i will seemingly and actually bring challenge to your thoughts /statements.
NOT to be against you but so that i can SEE by comparing scripture with scripture as i believe that Scripture cannot contradict Itself.

Hopefully you accept this from me.

David this will be a long answer because I will be using scripture to back that statement Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face, shalt thou eat bread, till thou return to the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: from the dust thou art, and unto the dust thou shalt return.
Ecclesiastes 12:6&7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, 7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return to God Who gave it. Verse 6 says when we die by what ever means; we are dead. Verse 7 tells us what happens after that. Then shall the dust: we know from Genesis that the flesh body came from the dust; so we are talking about the flesh body here. Where does it go? Back to the earth, it deceases, it becomes useless. And the spirit: the soul, the intellect, the very essence of who and what we are goes where? It returns to God who gave it.
Let's go to the New Testament Paul tells us in 1st Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say Brothern, that flesh and blood cannot inherit The Kingdom of God. neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Lets start from the fact that every person enters this world with a soul. Then as we grow and gain knowledge we have a choice to make; Do we choose to follow God, or Satan. If we choose to follow God of the bible not some man's traditions, some church doctrine we receive His spirit. Here comes another touchy subject: God will never leave us or forsake us but He gives us freewill to choose to follow Him or not. Here comes another touchy subject I do not believe in once saved always saved If we sin and we will no one is perfect you need to pick yourself up and dust off your birches ask God for forgiveness and move on Romans 3:25 He forgives us for sins of the past not future. NO ETERNAL SECURITY. We choose to either have a mortal soul(mortal meaning libel to die) or an immortal soul one that lives for ever. Verse 51. Behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep(die) but we shall all(that is the good, the bad, and the ugly) be changed Verse 52. In a moment in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trump shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall all be changed. Verse 53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality.
Let's get into these 3 verse because Paul just said a mouth full. It is true we shall not all die that means that Christians, non christians, or what ever you may clam to be we are going to be right here on earth. Verse 52 This is going to happen faster than you can blink an eye. When does Paul say this is going to happen? At the last trump. That is the furthest one out and at no other time will there be a secret gathering, rapturing, flying away or what ever you want to call it. God has work for His elect to do till that last seconded. And the dead shall rise first. That is the spiritually dead those that have a mortal soul, they shall be changed into a spiritual body but still have a soul that is libel to die. We all that is those that have a mortal soul and those that have an immortal soul shall be changed. Verse 53. For this corruptible: that is our flesh body and the mortal soul: Must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality: must become a spiritual body to house which ever soul you have. I want to close with this Revelation 19 we see the war on earth between Satan and Jesus. We see some bad things happening here but if you are one of God's children you do not have to worry Just as in Danial the 3 Hebrew children were thrown into the fire heated up 7 time hotter than normal were not hurt, came out without even the smell of smoke or a mark or burn on their body's; Why? Jesus was right there with them so shall it be in the end. You could be in the middle of 10,000 people Jesus is going to strike dead and you would not have a mark on you. In chapter 20 We see Satan chained for a season. Then John says Revelation 20:5 This is the first resurrection. There is no other resurrection pertrib, midtrib, or anyother trib. This is the written word of God period end of story.
I know this was long I hope it helps and if you have questions ect I would enjoy discussing them with you with open minds and open bibles.

 

[Thewatchman]

Its like Saul who became Paul so where did Saul go? Bodies of dust don't live very long, Paul knew he wasn't male or female literally in Christ in him. Always these stories sound like two people are being talk about is not being the meaning of them, one will die one never dies. One always seen one only seen by spirit. Etc............one great and least, one awake for eternity.

Read Revelation 20 this is what happens after all 7 trumps have sounded, all 7 seals have been opened, all 7 vials have been poured out after Armageddon. 20:4 And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they reigned with Christ a thousand years, Verse 5. But the rest of the dead lived not again untill the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. Verse 6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. I hope this helps to put to death the idea of a rapture of the Church before Jesus second coming when He comes as King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[glen55]

Had to mean what temple is being no longer outside in built temples in certain nations is all shadows, the one where Christ was seen going in it as son of man born not of woman womb but teaching what gets thrown out of them temporarily believed has spiritually built in man where you don't see it by flesh and blood nor teach by dead letters like Paul reminded it isn't first fruit by study of paper nor stone, woman meant covenants not literal females that takes place in your first learning wasn't able to stop sin so second was for being woke from flesh and blood only dust to spirit destroys what has you in bondage by sin as judgment experts blind about grace and mercy that defeats all evil that are only believed by children.

 

[Thewatchman]

You are the second Brother that i have come across that believes: "At the return of Jesus graves are not opening up and dead bodies flesh bodies are not coming out"

#1 - i am here to inquire and hopefully learn
#2 - what helps me to learn is to process scripture and apply it to statements/doctrines/beliefs and therefore DO NOT take offense by me as i will seemingly and actually bring challenge to your thoughts /statements.
NOT to be against you but so that i can SEE by comparing scripture with scripture as i believe that Scripture cannot contradict Itself.

Hopefully you accept this from me.

 

[Thewatchman]

Davidtree Lets start in 1 st Corinthians 15: 50 Now this I say Brothern that flesh, and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Ecclesiastes 12:6&7 Or the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel be broken at the cistern, 7. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return into God who gave it.
Gensis 3:19. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return to the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shall thou return.
I thank these verses make it clear that flesh is not needed in the millennium and the age to follow. For we shall be as our Father spirit

Yes when Jesus returns

Yes when we who are alive at the return of Jesus will be changed into spiritual bodies. I do not believe in the rapture; I believe that when we die the flesh body is of no use to us any more because the spirit, soul, intellect . . . returns to the God who gave it. At the return of Jesus graves are not opening up and dead bodies flesh bodies are not coming out. 1st Corinthians 15:50 copied from biblehub.com Verse 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. The flesh and blood body will not be needed at anytime after you die. Jesus returns puts his foot on the Mt. of Olives this earth age is finished, God will make it back perfect as it was in the beginning. The lion will lay down with the lamb. We will all be in spiritual bodies. The soul will either be mortal meaning liable to die or eternal verse 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, We shall not all sleep: we are not all going to die before Jesus returns. But we shall all be changed: Changed how? Into spiritual bodies, every body has to have a soul some are mortal libel to die, some are immortal meaning they will live for ever.
I don't want to turn this into a big long bible study We can do that later if you want. You will find what I am saying in the Old Testament as well as the New.
Again to answer your question I do not believe in a pertrib, posttrib, midtrib. I DO believe in the millennium. A 1000 year reign with Jesus, ending with God coming to earth to set up His kingdom. wherever God is that is where is heaven is. Again if you want or anyelse wants backup we can get into a good bible study.

Great we are of the same mind set and we are in line with Gods word. I would love to get into a good bible study. My favorite thing to do.

 

[Thewatchman]

Its like Saul who became Paul so where did Saul go? Bodies of dust don't live very long, Paul knew he wasn't male or female literally in Christ in him. Always these stories sound like two people are being talk about is not being the meaning of them, one will die one never dies. One always seen one only seen by spirit. Etc............one great and least, one awake for eternity.

Let me try and explain this one more time. Have you read Revelation and studied it.? Revelation 4-19 we see the 7 seals, the 7 trumps, the seven vials Satan being turned loos for a season ... Then we come to Revelation 20 Moffatt(i) 1 Then I saw an angel descend from heaven with the key of the abyss and a huge chain in his hand; 2 he gripped the dragon, that old serpent (who is the devil and Satan), and bound him for a thousand years, 3 flinging him into the abyss and shutting and sealing it on the top of him, to prevent him seducing the nations again until the thousand years were completed — after which he has to be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones with people sitting on them, who were allowed to judge — saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and God's word, those who would not worship the Beast or his statue, and who would not receive his mark on their forehead or hand; they came to life and reigned along with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 As for the rest of the dead, they did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, they shall be priests of God and the Christ, and reign along with him during the thousand years.
Does any of that sound like a pre trib rapture, a mid trib rapture, or any type of rapture at all. Jesus said that this was the first resurrection; when did it happen? at the start of the 1,000 years the start of the millennium. Not before.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

A Much Better view:

Let me try and explain this one more time. Have you read Revelation and studied it.? Revelation 4-19 we see the 7 seals, the 7 trumps, the seven vials Satan being turned loos for a season ...

Then we come to Revelation 20 Moffatt(i) 1 Then I saw an angel descend from heaven with the key of the abyss and a huge chain in his hand; 2 he gripped the dragon, that old serpent (who is the devil and Satan), and bound him for a thousand years, 3 flinging him into the abyss and shutting and sealing it on the top of him, to prevent him seducing the nations again until the thousand years were completed — after which he has to be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones with people sitting on them, who were allowed to judge — saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and God's word, those who would not worship the Beast or his statue, and who would not receive his mark on their forehead or hand; they came to life and reigned along with the Christ for a thousand years.

5 As for the rest of the dead, they did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, they shall be priests of God and the Christ, and reign along with him during the thousand years.

Does any of that sound like a pre trib rapture, a mid trib rapture, or any type of rapture at all. Jesus said that this was the first resurrection; when did it happen? at the start of the 1,000 years the start of the millennium. Not before.

Precious friend, for your prayerful/Careful review, may we humbly
present This (one more) Consideration. ie:

law/prophecy resurrection(s) for Israel, and for All the (spiritually) dead
at the end of time, before the prophesied New Heavens and New Earth.

This program was:
“prophesied since the world began!” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21)

There are TWO (Mid-Trib?) raptures in this program, ie:

(1) witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Revelation 11:11-12), And:

(2) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Revelation 7:4-8), and then "redeemed
(raptured?) from the earth, And found before The Throne Of God"
(Revelation 14:3-5)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

GRACE/Mystery Was God’s Heavenly Hidden Purpose Before
“the foundation of the world...Kept Secret since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9)

This Program Has resurrection/Catching Up of "believers in The
Body Of CHRIST Only" (Pre-TOJT Departure: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17;
1 Corinthians 15:51-52) (see Full Departure study for Further details!)

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Ogom]

Let me try and explain this one more time. Have you read Revelation and studied it.? Revelation 4-19 we see the 7 seals, the 7 trumps, the seven vials Satan being turned loos for a season ... Then we come to Revelation 20 Moffatt(i) 1 Then I saw an angel descend from heaven with the key of the abyss and a huge chain in his hand; 2 he gripped the dragon, that old serpent (who is the devil and Satan), and bound him for a thousand years, 3 flinging him into the abyss and shutting and sealing it on the top of him, to prevent him seducing the nations again until the thousand years were completed — after which he has to be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones with people sitting on them, who were allowed to judge — saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and God's word, those who would not worship the Beast or his statue, and who would not receive his mark on their forehead or hand; they came to life and reigned along with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 As for the rest of the dead, they did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, they shall be priests of God and the Christ, and reign along with him during the thousand years.
Does any of that sound like a pre trib rapture, a mid trib rapture, or any type of rapture at all. Jesus said that this was the first resurrection; when did it happen? at the start of the 1,000 years the start of the millennium. Not before.

we could study things like this for 100 years and not be nearer to the truth. the reason being is that we see darkly, in the dark - in part.

what parts are missing, a person might begin to wonder, if they were to really consider what it means to see - not with full light or truth.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thewatchman said:
Let me try and explain this one more time. Have you read Revelation and studied it.? Revelation 4-19 we see the 7 seals, the 7 trumps, the seven vials Satan being turned loos for a season ... Then we come to Revelation 20 Moffatt(i) 1 Then I saw an angel descend from heaven with the key of the abyss and a huge chain in his hand; 2 he gripped the dragon, that old serpent (who is the devil and Satan), and bound him for a thousand years, 3 flinging him into the abyss and shutting and sealing it on the top of him, to prevent him seducing the nations again until the thousand years were completed — after which he has to be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones with people sitting on them, who were allowed to judge — saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and God's word, those who would not worship the Beast or his statue, and who would not receive his mark on their forehead or hand; they came to life and reigned along with the Christ for a thousand years. 5As for the rest of the dead, they did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, they shall be priests of God and the Christ, and reign along with him during the thousand years.
Does any of that sound like a pre trib rapture, a mid trib rapture, or any type of rapture at all. Jesus said that this was the first resurrection; when did it happen? at the start of the 1,000 years the start of the millennium. Not before.

we could study things like this for 100 years and not be nearer to the truth. the reason being is that we see darkly, in the dark - in part.

what parts are missing, a person might begin to wonder, if they were to really consider what it means to see - not with full light or truth.

The verses that prove there is only one resurrection for the saved and that resurrection occurs "when He comes" per 1 Cor 15:23 are quite clear. No vagueness at all.

The ONLY time Jesus comes is at the Second Advent. There are just 2 prophecied advents; first one as a baby to become the Suffering Servant and Savior of the world. Second one as King of kings and Lord of lords, to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

 

[glen55]

Let me try and explain this one more time. Have you read Revelation and studied it.? Revelation 4-19 we see the 7 seals, the 7 trumps, the seven vials Satan being turned loos for a season ... Then we come to Revelation 20 Moffatt(i) 1 Then I saw an angel descend from heaven with the key of the abyss and a huge chain in his hand; 2 he gripped the dragon, that old serpent (who is the devil and Satan), and bound him for a thousand years, 3 flinging him into the abyss and shutting and sealing it on the top of him, to prevent him seducing the nations again until the thousand years were completed — after which he has to be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones with people sitting on them, who were allowed to judge — saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and God's word, those who would not worship the Beast or his statue, and who would not receive his mark on their forehead or hand; they came to life and reigned along with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 As for the rest of the dead, they did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, they shall be priests of God and the Christ, and reign along with him during the thousand years.
Does any of that sound like a pre trib rapture, a mid trib rapture, or any type of rapture at all. Jesus said that this was the first resurrection; when did it happen? at the start of the 1,000 years the start of the millennium. Not before.

The spiritual facts are like copied by flesh that is before spirit in each life as only spiritual babies by each birth of human is also by only one father for male and female, unless it is not in your family your not able to say they were born by your one father and isn't their father who is another one father. Spirit is the same pattern of one father being diverse as you just a babe no matter your flesh age that is great but is dust and dies from wise fleshing or lowest, now how does grace and mercy become for only 99 for power of law for flesh being by one thought wrong defeats you.
When you mature in spirit then that one Father in you and yourself is not saved your woke as being just like Jesus a pattern never sinning anymore just by one thought.

 

[Thewatchman]

A Much Better view:


Precious friend, for your prayerful/Careful review, may we humbly
present This (one more) Consideration. ie:

law/prophecy resurrection(s) for Israel, and for All the (spiritually) dead
at the end of time, before the prophesied New Heavens and New Earth.

This program was:
“prophesied since the world began!” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21)

There are TWO (Mid-Trib?) raptures in this program, ie:

(1) witnesses "ascended up to heaven" (Revelation 11:11-12), And:

(2) 144,000 "sealed on earth" (Revelation 7:4-8), and then "redeemed
(raptured?) from the earth, And found before The Throne Of God"
(Revelation 14:3-5)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

GRACE/Mystery Was God’s Heavenly Hidden Purpose Before
“the foundation of the world...Kept Secret since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9)

This Program Has resurrection/Catching Up of "believers in The
Body Of CHRIST Only" (Pre-TOJT Departure: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17;
1 Corinthians 15:51-52) (see Full Departure study for Further details!)

GRACE And Peace...

Grace Ambassador
Where is the word rapture in the bible? The only thing that would come close to what I perceive as to what you call a rapture is that when a person dies "any person" their body goes into the ground, the water, burnet to ashes, however you want the dead body taken care of it is gone. Then the soul returns to God who gave it.
Ecclesiastes 12:6&7 6Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Body stays spirit goes back to God.
Genises 3:19. In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
body returns to the earth and back to dust. It becomes useless not needed anymore.
1st Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. Only the spirit, the soul return to God from which it came. When does it return? at the 7th trump.
Then you have the rich man and Lazareth; this is not a parable you will not find the word parable in the 16th chapter. They both die. Where do they end up? In the bosom of Abraham one on one side of the gulf and the other. They did not stay buried in the ground their spirit, soul went to heave

 

[glen55]

Let me try and explain this one more time. Have you read Revelation and studied it.? Revelation 4-19 we see the 7 seals, the 7 trumps, the seven vials Satan being turned loos for a season ... Then we come to Revelation 20 Moffatt(i) 1 Then I saw an angel descend from heaven with the key of the abyss and a huge chain in his hand; 2 he gripped the dragon, that old serpent (who is the devil and Satan), and bound him for a thousand years, 3 flinging him into the abyss and shutting and sealing it on the top of him, to prevent him seducing the nations again until the thousand years were completed — after which he has to be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones with people sitting on them, who were allowed to judge — saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and God's word, those who would not worship the Beast or his statue, and who would not receive his mark on their forehead or hand; they came to life and reigned along with the Christ for a thousand years. 5 As for the rest of the dead, they did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, they shall be priests of God and the Christ, and reign along with him during the thousand years.
Does any of that sound like a pre trib rapture, a mid trib rapture, or any type of rapture at all. Jesus said that this was the first resurrection; when did it happen? at the start of the 1,000 years the start of the millennium. Not before.

Well I have read it many times over my life and studied with other answers being truth finally which mostly old wine is teaching making them think they were right, the simple mention of John being in spirit takes new wine that's hard for old wine to grasp what in spirit is at being taken to throne which is in man a temple not outside yourself, every teaching is based on outside man is like what Jesus tried to explain both temples destroyed being one being outside and seen and spiritual meanings is in your body of dust but reborn in what spiritual son can do against flesh and blood going back to its natural creation called dusk, but spiritual which is all life in you never actually dies, dreams do become impossible to flesh wisdom and science to grasp spirit, worried about what is heard and seen is keeping man busy that is being worked on inside spiritual conscience by spirit we all have, old wine will dominate over possible by spirit till you wake as Christ.

 

[Thewatchman]

Well I have read it many times over my life and studied with other answers being truth finally which mostly old wine is teaching making them think they were right, the simple mention of John being in spirit takes new wine that's hard for old wine to grasp what in spirit is at being taken to throne which is in man a temple not outside yourself, every teaching is based on outside man is like what Jesus tried to explain both temples destroyed being one being outside and seen and spiritual meanings is in your body of dust but reborn in what spiritual son can do against flesh and blood going back to its natural creation called dusk, but spiritual which is all life in you never actually dies, dreams do become impossible to flesh wisdom and science to grasp spirit, worried about what is heard and seen is keeping man busy that is being worked on inside spiritual conscience by spirit we all have, old wine will dominate over possible by spirit till you wake as Christ.

Makes no sence to me but we will just agree to disagree

 

[Ogom]

Makes no sence to me but we will just agree to disagree

it is like the verse says ... "the Spirit searcheth all things". if we are seeking answers through our own mind powers too much and what we conclude or have concluded by studying and from others who have used their own minds before us to study - and what we were taught in ways to believe, the ways we are then 'supposed' to (expected to, told to, were taught to or came to believe that we should) to think about things according to this belief about this, and that - this rule and yet another rule (of ourselves - our own set-up(s), believed rule(s) about how we are to think about things about the Bible, about God, about How to study the Bible, about Life in general, about the Universe, ect.) instead of going to God in prayer and seeking to do His will and to know not only His will but the truth. that is - what all the Bible might really mean - according to what actually IS. not according to this Scholar or that Teacher or this School of Thought or yet another School of thought (Old Wine/ Letters on Pages + Our own Mind), but INSTEAD according to what only God/ the Spirit can/ and/or will reveal to those who truly seek the answers ---- from Him - over ALL others out there including ourselves (New Wine / Spirit of God + Our own Mind).

 

[Thewatchman]

I agree with 2 Timmothy 3:15-17
Ezekiel 13, Matthew 24, Mark 13, 1st Corinthians 15, 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, Revelation 20, all state that there is no rapture, no one is flying away. Satan comes at the 6th trump and Jesuses returns at the 7th trump. Nowhere in the bible does it teach that Jesus is going to slip out of heaven gather some to Him return to heaven and then do the same thing once or twice more.
If you or anyone else wants to study, not argue, push church or man's doctrine that make the Word of God void I am all for it. I do not want to see anyone misled. Myself included.

 

[Pemican]

This has nothing to do with the rapture of the church. One taken, one left refers to the baptism of fire at the second advent of Christ. Christ returns and (amongst other things) removes all unbelievers from the earth so that the millennium starts with believers only. This is also the time when the regathering of the Jews occurs, again, these are believing Jews regathered to Israel to start the Millennial kingdom. The millennium is a new civilization and like the deliverance of Noah and his family it starts with believers only.

 

[glen55]

Makes no sence to me but we will just agree to disagree

It's like impossible being a truth statement, and also possible can defeat impossible is being truth. Judge is also able to be truth, and grace can eliminate is truth, everything is truth for what ever your believing that always seem impossibly by every creation is thought first for good and evil that's truth, Then is seen by flesh and blood could be long time or short always being truth.

 

[glen55]

Read Revelation 20 this is what happens after all 7 trumps have sounded, all 7 seals have been opened, all 7 vials have been poured out after Armageddon. 20:4 And I saw thrones and they sat upon them, judgment was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they reigned with Christ a thousand years, Verse 5. But the rest of the dead lived not again untill the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. Verse 6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. I hope this helps to put to death the idea of a rapture of the Church before Jesus second coming when He comes as King of kings and Lord of lords.

What did Luke 17: Remind you what's not heard or seen by flesh experts of reading OT being just secular history stories is your opinion on what, and where, is loud seals for only Spirit away from flesh Greats hugging hand made temples and thrones, of coarse you being God Temple is only seen by MOSES couldn't enter, Adios MO.

The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. WHAT that's impossible for certain man to ponder.