Once saved always saved?

[emprezza]

Are you aware that you just called Jesus Christ a heretic?? What in the world is wrong with you?

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This verse CAN'T be misunderstood. So, those who do misunderstand it don't want to believe the clear message.

You cannot be a follower of Saul Tarsus and Jesus Christ at the same time.
Paul and Jesus preached diametrically opposed messages. Paul’s letters are in the Bible to record how crafty the devil can be. Even John calls him the antichrist and Peter noted how difficult his message is to understand.

 

[emprezza]

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

Should is a Very Key Word In God's Truth, Correct? ie:

"For we Are HIS Workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. " (Eph 2:10)

When some Do Not DO as they should, their actions/behaviour does not
Nullify The Truth of Eph 2:8-9, Correct? Nor These 12 Dozen Passages?:

God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
God's Eternal Assurance
+
On Judgment Day! = The "saved" Not doing what they should:

"If any man's work shall be burned, he Shall Suffer LOSS:
but he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire. " (1Co 3:15), Correct?
---------------------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided.

GRACE And Peace...

Please note that you are quoting Paul to justify your position. Paul never met Jesus nor learned from him. Try studying Jesus’ teachings or Peter’s or James’ or John - disciples who actually learned at the feet of Jesus

 

[AndrewMorgan]

In this case, this person never really believed the gospel. The closest he got was "I BET this is true". Of course it's true that anyone who places their trust alone in Christ's work alone will be saved eternally. But did this idiot? Apparently not.

So, he can agree that the gospel message is true and yet, NOT believe it. iow, until he actually believes in Jesus Christ for salvation, he won't get it.

The answer is clearly stated in the Bible. The only issue is whether a person will believe what Jesus said. Your idiot example did not believe.

NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH. NEVER PERISH.

It is people who don't understand or maybe even hate the idea of GRACE that will fight this.

Would you say, then, that those who evangelise (eg - on the street) are often deficient in expressing the need for stating the need for (adherence to the cause of Christ) in the way you described it?
In my experience, it's usually presented as "believe you are a sinner and Jesus died and paid the penalty for your sin and you'll be saved." - which, unless I'm missing something, leaves out a lot.

 

[persistent]

I called Jesus Christ no such thing.

He said nobody can snatch anybody out of his hand, but he did not say that nobody could walk away of their own volition.

Anyhow, if you're teaching "OSAS", then I'll tell YOU plainly that you're a heretic.

I feel like I sort of understood being saved when I was 18 or 19 and then I quit following "The Way" for about a year and then pursued "The Way" for about a year and then sort of followed for maybe 3 years and then quit following for 40 years and now have been sort of following starting at age 65 and then finally came to accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Sustainer and The Shepherd whose voice I should listen to and for and that was about 18 months ago. Much of that time was a total waste tethered to a bar stool. About a year ago I was listening to Librivox recording of Jonathan Edwards trying to figure who was saved and who wasn't. Didn't make much sense to me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
None of this is relevant. The Bible SAYS when a person believes in Christ, they possess eternal life, in John 5:24. There is NOTHING you can say to change that FACT.

Second, Jesus SAID clearly that RECIPIENTS of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH, in John 10:28.

So, the biblical FACT is that once a person believes in Christ for salvation, THEY SHALL NEVER PERISH.

If such a person later changes their mind, for any reason, they STILL POSSESS eternal life AND SHALL NEVER PERISH.

These are Jesus' own words. And you have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.

Wow. You DO have the audacity to disagree with Jesus.

If you disagree with Jn 5:24 teaching that believing results in possessing eternal life, please explain.
If you disagree with Jn 10:28 teaching that recipients of eternal life shall never perish, please explain.

I'll be curious as to where your dysfunction in reading English lies.

Or, are you just willfully refusing to understand Jn 5:24 and 10:28??

Jesus gave us the Lord's Prayer.
within this Prayer, we are to ask for forgiveness and to FORGIVE those who've sinned against us.

How is this relevant to what I posted? And you didn't explain about what you disagree with my summary of the 2 verses.

so are you saying if a person does not forgive others, and the Father won't forgive their sins until they forgive others, He's still granting them Salvation?

Are you not aware that a believer can live their entire life out of fellowship with the Lord? Do you understand what it means to be IN fellowship or OUT OF fellowship with the Lord?

It appears you do not.

I have explained the clear enough words of John 5:24 and 10:28. There is no reason to think that salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Are you aware that you just called Jesus Christ a heretic?? What in the world is wrong with you?

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This verse CAN'T be misunderstood. So, those who do misunderstand it don't want to believe the clear message.

You cannot be a follower of Saul Tarsus and Jesus Christ at the same time.

This is delusional. This is what Paul wrote:

1 Cor 11:1 - Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.

Paul and Jesus preached diametrically opposed messages.

This is definitely delusional.

Your comments demonstrate that you have no idea what the Bible says.

Paul’s letters are in the Bible to record how crafty the devil can be. Even John calls him the antichrist and Peter noted how difficult his message is to understand.

You need help. Lot's of it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Please note that you are quoting Paul to justify your position. Paul never met Jesus nor learned from him.

Apparently you are just showing off your extreme delusions now.

Read Acts 9 where Paul met the Lord on the road to Damascus. But that would mean you'd have to read the Bible, which you clearly haven't done.

Try studying Jesus’ teachings or Peter’s or James’ or John - disciples who actually learned at the feet of Jesus

Try reading the Bible yourself. You don't have a clue.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Would you say, then, that those who evangelise (eg - on the street) are often deficient in expressing the need for stating the need for (adherence to the cause of Christ) in the way you described it?

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Are you saying that there is a "need for adherence to the cause of Christ" to be saved? Where do you read that in the Bible? I've never seen that.

In my experience, it's usually presented as "believe you are a sinner and Jesus died and paid the penalty for your sin and you'll be saved." - which, unless I'm missing something, leaves out a lot.

Let's just get to the point. What do you think a person needs to do to go to heaven?

 

[emprezza]

Apparently you are just showing off your extreme delusions now.

Read Acts 9 where Paul met the Lord on the road to Damascus. But that would mean you'd have to read the Bible, which you clearly haven't done.


Try reading the Bible yourself. You don't have a clue.

Paul met Jesus in a wilderness on the road to Damascus? Was that Jesus’ second coming? Or, did Jesus warn us about people who comes to tell you about His private appearances as in Matt 24:26

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Paul never met Jesus nor learned from him.

1) How did "Paul Get Saved"? By not "meeting The LORD Jesus Christ"?:

[Saul, v1]
Act 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard A Voice Saying unto him,
Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art Thou, LORD? And The LORD Said, I AM Jesus
Whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

2) Paul did not "learn" The Revelation Of The Mystery, From

The LORD Jesus Christ?:​

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the Grace of God which is
Given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that By Revelation HE Made Known Unto me The Mystery;
(as I wrote afore in few words,

3) Precious friend, do you have a Different BIBLE than the rest of us?

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

 

[emprezza]

1) How did "Paul Get Saved"? By not "meeting The LORD Jesus Christ"?:

[Saul, v1]
Act 9:4 "And he fell to the earth, and heard A Voice Saying unto him,
Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art Thou, LORD? And The LORD Said, I AM Jesus
Whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."

2) Paul did not "learn" The Revelation Of The Mystery, From

The LORD Jesus Christ?:​

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the Grace of God which is
Given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that By Revelation HE Made Known Unto me The Mystery;
(as I wrote afore in few words,

3) Precious friend, do you have a Different BIBLE than the rest of us?

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

See Matthew 24:26 So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

Or, maybe you think Paul is describing the second coming? And, somehow everyone else missed it?

 

[AndrewMorgan]

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Are you saying that there is a "need for adherence to the cause of Christ" to be saved? Where do you read that in the Bible? I've never seen that.


Let's just get to the point. What do you think a person needs to do to go to heaven?

I'm not totally happy with that phrase I used, but I was trying to accurately represent some posters' belief of what needs to be saved - ie - not just believe in the sense I've often mentioned (simply believing that Jesus is the Savior and died for people's sins), but something more. I don't seem to be able to get quite what it is people are saying - I may be missing something obvious to others.
I don't know if my phrase is an accurate definition of their stance, but it seems to sum up the idea.
As for your later question - I DON'T KNOW. That's the point of my asking. But, whatever the answer, it seems there's a dangerous lack of clarity, inconsistency and general confusion in the world of evangelism generally.

 

[Eli1]

I'm not totally happy with that phrase I used, but I was trying to accurately represent some posters' belief of what needs to be saved - ie - not just believe in the sense I've often mentioned (simply believing that Jesus is the Savior and died for people's sins), but something more. I don't seem to be able to get quite what it is people are saying - I may be missing something obvious to others.
I don't know if my phrase is an accurate definition of their stance, but it seems to sum up the idea.
As for your later question - I DON'T KNOW. That's the point of my asking. But, whatever the answer, it seems there's a dangerous lack of clarity, inconsistency and general confusion in the world of evangelism generally.

Andrew i don’t agree with much of what is said in this topic but why would you use the word Dangerous?
Suppose someone is wrong. Why would that be dangerous?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Paul met Jesus in a wilderness on the road to Damascus? Was that Jesus’ second coming?

No, the Second Coming will occur at the end of the Tribulation, when Jesus ends the battle of Armageddon.

Or, did Jesus warn us about people who comes to tell you about His private appearances as in Matt 24:26

What kind of ridiculous question is this?

Your horrible hang up with Paul is disgusting. He wrote more of the NT than any other author. And all you do is diss him. That is shameful.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

I'm not totally happy with that phrase I used, but I was trying to accurately represent some posters' belief of what needs to be saved - ie - not just believe in the sense I've often mentioned (simply believing that Jesus is the Savior and died for people's sins), but something more. I don't seem to be able to get quite what it is people are saying - I may be missing something obvious to others.
I don't know if my phrase is an accurate definition of their stance, but it seems to sum up the idea.
As for your later question - I DON'T KNOW. That's the point of my asking. But, whatever the answer, it seems there's a dangerous lack of clarity, inconsistency and general confusion in the world of evangelism generally.

I don't want to over-labor the point, but in an attempt to understand what you believe is necessary to be saved, would YOU like to state it clearly?
If you've previously done so, or deem it to have been sufficiently covered, I understand and don't want to pressure you into an inconvenience. With so many posts on so many subjects from so many people, it's easy to get confused - eg - about who's said what.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm not totally happy with that phrase I used, but I was trying to accurately represent some posters' belief of what needs to be saved - ie - not just believe in the sense I've often mentioned (simply believing that Jesus is the Savior and died for people's sins), but something more. I don't seem to be able to get quite what it is people are saying - I may be missing something obvious to others.
I don't know if my phrase is an accurate definition of their stance, but it seems to sum up the idea.

OK, you were just trying to convey what other posters seem to think then?

As for your later question - I DON'T KNOW. That's the point of my asking. But, whatever the answer, it seems there's a dangerous lack of clarity, inconsistency and general confusion in the world of evangelism generally.

Satan has been having a real field day deceiving and confusing believers. That is Satan's mission; to confuse people so that they do not know how to be saved.

The Bible mentions "faith" a lot. And we have the phrase "saving faith". So, what is it, exactly? That certainly is the question.

How can anyone share their faith in the hope of leading someone to "saving faith" if they don't even know how to be saved?

Recall the jailer's question to Paul: "what MUST I DO to be saved?" Real clear question.

Paul's answer: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL BE saved".

So, the only question left is what Paul meant by his answer.

The Greek word for "believe" means to trust. Have full confidence in. And that's all it means. Lots of preachers, etc add things like commitment, etc, all of which adds up to human effort, which is unbiblical.

So, what are we trusting Jesus Christ FOR? Obviously, our salvation. We trust Him to save us from the LOF. How does Jesus save us? First, He had to pay the sin penalty for everyone, so that "whosoever" believes in Him will not perish.

Last question: who is the Lord Jesus Christ, specifically? Just some itinerant teacher?

Let's break down the 3 words that describe what Paul meant.

Lord - full Deity. He is the Son of God, no less.
Jesus - full humanity. He was born in the line of David.
Christ - the Annointed One, or Savior.

So, a person will be saved IF they put their full trust alone in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross, for their sins personally for their salvation.

 

[AndrewMorgan]

Andrew i don’t agree with much of what is said in this topic but why would you use the word Dangerous?
Suppose someone is wrong. Why would that be dangerous?

Andrew i don’t agree with much of what is said in this topic but why would you use the word Dangerous?
Suppose someone is wrong. Why would that be dangerous?

It could be extremely dangerous if someone is taught by someone evangelising, that all someone has to do to be saved is believe (as in the sense of common parlance) that Jesus is the Savior and died for the sins of the world, if (and I emphasise "if") more is actually required. Such a person may lose out on salvation and be damned eternally.

 

[Eli1]

It could be extremely dangerous if someone is taught by someone evangelising, that all someone has to do to be saved is believe (as in the sense of common parlance) that Jesus is the Savior and died for the sins of the world, if (and I emphasise "if") more is actually required. Such a person may lose out on salvation and be damned eternally.

So this means that you have an absolute accurate understanding of salvation then?

 

[AndrewMorgan]

OK, you were just trying to convey what other posters seem to think then?


Satan has been having a real field day deceiving and confusing believers. That is Satan's mission; to confuse people so that they do not know how to be saved.

The Bible mentions "faith" a lot. And we have the phrase "saving faith". So, what is it, exactly? That certainly is the question.

How can anyone share their faith in the hope of leading someone to "saving faith" if they don't even know how to be saved?

Recall the jailer's question to Paul: "what MUST I DO to be saved?" Real clear question.

Paul's answer: "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you WILL BE saved".

So, the only question left is what Paul meant by his answer.

The Greek word for "believe" means to trust. Have full confidence in. And that's all it means. Lots of preachers, etc add things like commitment, etc, all of which adds up to human effort, which is unbiblical.

So, what are we trusting Jesus Christ FOR? Obviously, our salvation. We trust Him to save us from the LOF. How does Jesus save us? First, He had to pay the sin penalty for everyone, so that "whosoever" believes in Him will not perish.

Last question: who is the Lord Jesus Christ, specifically? Just some itinerant teacher?

Let's break down the 3 words that describe what Paul meant.

Lord - full Deity. He is the Son of God, no less.
Jesus - full humanity. He was born in the line of David.
Christ - the Annointed One, or Savior.

So, a person will be saved IF they put their full trust alone in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross, for their sins personally for their salvation.

Thanks for you reply. I've got to go to get my bus now - I'll get back later.

 

[emprezza]

No, the Second Coming will occur at the end of the Tribulation, when Jesus ends the battle of Armageddon.


What kind of ridiculous question is this?

Your horrible hang up with Paul is disgusting. He wrote more of the NT than any other author. And all you do is diss him. That is shameful.

do note that I do not have to believe a word that Paul says to enter the kingdom of god.

Note also that salvation means that you are eligible for the kingdom of god.

Moreover, nicodemus already asked this question of Jesus and it was sufficiently answered in John3:3 —> “Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.3.ESV

or see matthew 17:20
“He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:20‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.17.20.ESV

This means that if your faith is not strong enough to change your behavior, it is not strong enough to save your life.