Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

VARob · Jan 24, 2023

cv5 said:

1 Tim 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Eze 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Matt 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

There are more.

Your posts show otherwise.

VARob · Jan 24, 2023

cv5 said:

Your notions of justice need to be refined by what the Bible actually says.

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth,

Rom 9:13
As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:19
Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20
Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Those verses in Romans are about God needing to choose between Jacob and Esau as to which would carry the Christ-line. He couldn't choose both. He chose Jacob.

cv5 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

Totally agree man. Praying that many will receive Him.....

Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 1:13
who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

cv5 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

Oh....there is a LOT more to it than that bro.....

These folks are mostly not Jews and have little knowledge of either of them.

Rom 9:23
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Rom 9:24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom 9:25
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Rom 9:26
And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

BillG · Jan 24, 2023

Everlasting-Grace said:

I love Calvin and his mate.

Magenta · Jan 24, 2023

Jesus' Words in John 6:65

Cameron143 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

You are actually confusing fairness with justice. Fairness deals with treating everyone the same. Justice deals with the exercise of punishment under the law.
Both are seen in the story of the landowner who hired workers at various times during the day but that evening they all were paid the same.
Was the landowner fair? I'll leave that for you to answer. Was he just? Yes, because he met his legal obligation.
Most assume fairness is an attribute of God but the Bible never makes such a claim. The Bible does declare God to be just. This means when He requires punishment for one, He must require it of all. He cannot arbitrarily apply it to some and not others.
Thus, if the wages of sin is death and all have sinned, then all must die if God is just. But God can allow a substitute to die so long as the death requirement is met. Hence, the cross. God is both just and the justifier of all who are saved.
If God were fair, wouldn't He of necessity have to save all? Again. I'll leave the answer to you.

Magenta · Jan 24, 2023

Cameron143 said:

That sounds fair...

Cameron143 · Jan 24, 2023

Magenta said:

Only if it works out for you. It won't seem fair to those who don't get saved.
The point I was trying to make, and very clumsily so, is that God is under no obligation to save anyone. But if He does, to remain just, He cannot do so indiscriminately. He must require an eternity in Hell of someone else. But being just does not require Him to save all. Fairness would.

VARob · Jan 24, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Justice must be administered fairly.

No. Salvation is AVAILABLE to all, but God requires people to have faith. God requires about the least thing He could from a person in order for that person to be saved: Faith in Jesus Christ.

cv5 · Jan 24, 2023

Cameron143 said:

1) probably going to be the case. I'm sure Satan thinks all of this judgement business is an outrage.
So do unrepentant men right now at this very moment.

2) Agree. But he does out of sheer mercy. See Romans 9 and Paul's statements noted below.

3) I would reply to that by saying that the fallen seed of Adam is CONDEMNED ALREADY. God need not lift a finger to make
condemnation happen....it already has. Indiscriminately is not what I would call those whom God has foreordained. I would call it sovereign choice according to His grace, mercy, wisdom and knowledge.

4) Sorry....you lost me there

1Ti 1:13
Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:16
Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Cameron143 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

If justice were administered fairly, everyone would be all in Hell or all in heaven.
Justice doesn't need fairness. Justice only requires the penalties under the law are met. As long as the payment for sin is made, whether you or Jesus, justice is served.

cv5 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

God requires a lot of things (including perfect righteousness).
Fallen men fulfill NONE of those requirements. Not even the "least thing". Nor are they equipped or able to do so.

Cameron143 · Jan 24, 2023

cv5 said:

On 3, I personally agree but am not interested in hashing that out through this thread.
On 4, fairness deals with equality...what you do for one, you must do for another. Justice deals not with individuals but fulfillment of terms. Fulfilling terms doesn't require equality. Only that the terms of an agreement are met. For example, the landowner who hired people throughout the day to work on his property paid all the same amount for unequal amounts of work. He was justified in doing so because he fulfilled the terms of his contract. Many, however, didn't consider him fair.

VARob · Jan 24, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Disagree.

I think it does.

Jesus met that penalty for everyone who decides to believe the gospel. He died for the sins of the whole world.
In order to become saved, a person must choose to have faith in Christ.

Cameron143 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

I'm ok disagreeing. Blessings.

VARob · Jan 24, 2023

cv5 said:

Not for a person to be saved, He doesn't. If He did, nobody would or could be saved.

Fallen men have the ability and capacity to believe the gospel.

John146 · Jan 24, 2023

Cameron143 said:

But first, we must believe in Jesus Christ to be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. Christ's faith is God's righteousness revealed. Believing is our part.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

HeIsHere · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

Amen.

cv5 · Jan 24, 2023

VARob said:

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Head knowledge avails naught. Paul was a true master of the Scripture before he was saved, and had ZERO capacity to recognize Jesus for Who he really is.

Likewise today many MANY astute elite bible scholars do not believe....at all. They are resolute Christ deniers in fact.

Like this Ehrman guy.....

https://christianchat.com/threads/saints-meet-your-opposition.209234/post-4997162

https://christianchat.com/threads/saints-meet-your-opposition.209234/post-5000492

https://christianchat.com/threads/saints-meet-your-opposition.209234/post-4999936

Whereas little children and those with little in the way of raw intelligence DO believe.

Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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