Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I think that is interesting - the aspect of praying for perseverance being necessary.
I would add, as Paul unmistakably puts it

Romans 2: 6,7
God “will repay each one according to his deeds.” To those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life.

further

Romans 2:12
All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.

God bless you.

Agreed.

St. Augustine's commentary on Our Lord's Prayer and other passages of Scripture is interesting. He says many of the Petitions in that Prayer are for perseverance, and also quotes some other Scripture passages, Old and New, on Perseverance: "This matter being settled, let us see whether this perseverance, of which it was said, He that perseveres unto the end, the same shall be saved, Matthew 10:22 is a gift of God ... For God has promised this, saying, I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me. Jeremiah 32:40 And what else is this than, Such and so great shall be my fear that I will put into their hearts that they will perseveringly cleave to me? ... when the saints say, Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, Matthew 6:13 what do they pray for but that they may persevere in holiness? For, assuredly, when that gift of God is granted to them — which is sufficiently plainly shown to be God's gift, since it is asked of Him — that gift of God, then, being granted to them that they may not be led into temptation, none of the saints fails to keep his perseverance in holiness even to the end. For there is not any one who ceases to persevere in the Christian purpose unless he is first of all led into temptation. If, therefore, it be granted to him according to his prayer that he may not be led, certainly by the gift of God he persists in that sanctification which by the gift of God he has received."

Taken from: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15122.htm

One of the points "P" in the Calvinist understanding of TULIP is called "Perseverance of the Saints" but it means something different. It means, apparently, that everyone justified will never fall away but will persevere, which seems contrary to some Biblical examples. Anyway, I would say it isn't a Salvation issue as such, as I'm sure there are Saved Christians on both sides, but Praying for Perseverance is safer and surer. Many who said they would never fall away in fact did. Why? Some say it is always because "they were never justified to begin with". More likely, "they never Prayed for Perseverance" etc. For if they had prayed, and if Our Lord says the Father will grant what we persist in asking and seeking for, they would have received that Grace of Perseverance in the Faith, and thus would not have fallen away from Christ, and been saved.

God Bless.

 

[Magenta]

Many who said they would never fall away in fact did.

Peter is a good example, claiming one thing and then doing the opposite.

But all was not lost.

Luke 22:31-32 ~ Satan has asked to sift each of you like wheat...
Posting image in case it shows when server is restored...

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Agreed.

St. Augustine's commentary on Our Lord's Prayer and other passages of Scripture is interesting. He says many of the Petitions in that Prayer are for perseverance, and also quotes some other Scripture passages, Old and New, on Perseverance: "This matter being settled, let us see whether this perseverance, of which it was said, He that perseveres unto the end, the same shall be saved, Matthew 10:22 is a gift of God ... For God has promised this, saying, I will put my fear in their hearts, that they may not depart from me. Jeremiah 32:40 And what else is this than, Such and so great shall be my fear that I will put into their hearts that they will perseveringly cleave to me? ... when the saints say, Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, Matthew 6:13 what do they pray for but that they may persevere in holiness? For, assuredly, when that gift of God is granted to them — which is sufficiently plainly shown to be God's gift, since it is asked of Him — that gift of God, then, being granted to them that they may not be led into temptation, none of the saints fails to keep his perseverance in holiness even to the end. For there is not any one who ceases to persevere in the Christian purpose unless he is first of all led into temptation. If, therefore, it be granted to him according to his prayer that he may not be led, certainly by the gift of God he persists in that sanctification which by the gift of God he has received."

Taken from: https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/15122.htm

One of the points "P" in the Calvinist understanding of TULIP is called "Perseverance of the Saints" but it means something different. It means, apparently, that everyone justified will never fall away but will persevere, which seems contrary to some Biblical examples. Anyway, I would say it isn't a Salvation issue as such, as I'm sure there are Saved Christians on both sides, but Praying for Perseverance is safer and surer. Many who said they would never fall away in fact did. Why? Some say it is always because "they were never justified to begin with". More likely, "they never Prayed for Perseverance" etc. For if they had prayed, and if Our Lord says the Father will grant what we persist in asking and seeking for, they would have received that Grace of Perseverance in the Faith, and thus would not have fallen away from Christ, and been saved.

God Bless.

I agree, I don't think one is doomed if they don't pray for that, necessarily. However it clearly follows that if praying for perseverance is helpful then it's better to pray for it. With that said, "perseverance in doing good" itself is clearly vital from Romans 2:6-7.

 

[markss]

I agree, I don't think one is doomed if they don't pray for that, necessarily. However it clearly follows that if praying for perseverance is helpful then it's better to pray for it. With that said, perseverance itself is clearly vital from Romans 2:6-7.

Perserverance is presupposed in Colossians 3,

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

"IF you've been risen with Christ", this means that "you are dead", and, "when Christ . . . shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory."

In context these are those still in this world. This is the one who has been baptized into Christ's death, and have raised with Him, being born again. "You shall appear with Him in glory".

This is prophecy, and will be fulfilled.

Much love!

 

[markss]

Another passage where perserverance is presupposed is in Philippians,

Philippians 3:20-21 KJV
20) For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21) Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We whose citizenship is in heaven, we are they whom Jesus shall change our bodies to be like His.

This is plainly stated as something that will happen. So it will happen.

Much love!

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Perserverance is presupposed in Colossians 3,

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

"IF you've been risen with Christ", this means that "you are dead", and, "when Christ . . . shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory."

In context these are those still in this world. This is the one who has been baptized into Christ's death, and have raised with Him, being born again. "You shall appear with Him in glory".

This is prophecy, and will be fulfilled.

Much love!

Thank you and love back to you.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I agree, I don't think one is doomed if they don't pray for that, necessarily. However it clearly follows that if praying for perseverance is helpful then it's better to pray for it. With that said, "perseverance in doing good" itself is clearly vital from Romans 2:6-7.

Agreed. Rom 2:7 as you mentioned is another good passage on Persistence/Perseverance/"Patient Continuance" as one translation renders it: "7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."

Then there is the Lord Himself in Mat 24:13: "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved."

And 1 Tim 4:16 is difficult to interpret in any other manner: "16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

Among several other passages. God Bless.

 

[BreatheFocusBet]

Agreed. Rom 2:7 as you mentioned is another good passage on Persistence/Perseverance/"Patient Continuance" as one translation renders it: "7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."

Then there is the Lord Himself in Mat 24:13: "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved."

And 1 Tim 4:16 is difficult to interpret in any other manner: "16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."

Among several other passages. God Bless.

Agreed. I would not conform these verses to mean we do not need to persevere, especially Romans 2:7.

 

[Beckie]

As far as I’m aware, the words “change of heart” don’t appear in the New Testament. Many verses and passages describe a change of heart because repentance is defined as a change of heart.

Judas changed his heart about betraying Jesus, the bit about “he was seized with remorse” is translated from a Greek word that means repent:

Matt 27:3
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

He does not ask for forgiveness

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

"be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Rev 2:10)

12Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him." (Jam 1:12)

 

[Runningman]

He does not ask for forgiveness

Uttering the words “will you forgive me?” isn’t required. The Bible is clear about confession and repentance being the prerequisite to forgiveness.

Unless you’re aware of something I don’t know. Got any verse that say one needs to ask for forgiveness after repenting of their sins?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Have to agree with this below on Judas: https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqnas-library/QA0115/did-judas-repent

"
The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Matthew 27.
Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!” And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. (27:3–5)
We are not told where Judas was during the Jewish mock trials. He doubtless had followed the multitude from the Mount of Olives to Annas’s house and was waiting nearby, perhaps in the courtyard where Peter was. It is possible that he was called as one of the witnesses against Jesus, but that seems unlikely. Judas still had the onus of being a disciple of Jesus, and, in any case, the very fact he was a traitor would have made his testimony suspect. Because Judas had fulfilled his usefulness to them, the chief priests and elders wanted nothing more to do with him. He was now a rejected outcast-to them, to the disciples, and to Jewish society in general.
Then when could be translated “at that time,” which seems to fit the context. Even before dawn it had became obvious to Judas and the others in the courtyard that the foregone verdict of the Jewish leaders had been confirmed. Now Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw with his own eyes that He had been condemned. Although horao (saw) was sometimes used in the figurative sense of being aware of or perceiving, its use here suggests literal, physical sight. If Peter was able to see Jesus during at least part of the trial (Luke 22:61), then others in the courtyard could have seen Him as well. Judas had seen Jesus maligned, spat upon, beaten, and mocked. Now he watched in bewilderment as his condemned Teacher was taken to Pilate.
As Judas watched Jesus being carried away to Pilate, the full enormity of his treachery finally began to dawn on him as he realized the Jewish leaders did indeed intend to put Jesus to death. The one last obstacle was the permission of Pilate, which Judas had no reason to believe would be denied. Once Pilate consented, Jesus’ death would be inevitable.
The sight was devastating to Judas, more than even his money-hungry mind, his sordid soul, and his seared conscience could deal with. He felt remorse as he began to experience the intense, excruciating pain that is unique to profound guilt.
No man could be more evil than Judas Iscariot. Only eleven other men in all of history have had the intimate, personal relationship he had with the incarnate Son of God, No man has ever been more exposed to God’s perfect truth, both in precept and example. No man has been more exposed firsthand to God’s love, compassion, power, kindness, forgiveness, and grace. No man has had more evidence of Jesus’ divinity or more firsthand knowledge of the way of salvation. Yet in all of those three indescribably blessed years with Jesus, Judas did not take so much as the first step of faith.
In a way that defies comprehension, Judas persistently resisted and rejected God’s truth, God’s grace, and even God’s own Son. Also in a way that defies understanding, he managed to completely conceal his wicked rebellion from everyone but Jesus. His hypocrisy was so complete and deceptive that even when Jesus predicted that one of the disciples would betray Him, Judas was not suspected.
Judas was so totally trapped in the darkness and corruption of sin that he became a willing instrument of Satan. Because this false disciple had totally renounced Christ, “Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot” (Luke 22:3), and it was then a simple matter to persuade him to betray Jesus (John 13:2). Judas’s heart was so utterly hardened to the things of God that long before he consciously considered betraying Him, Jesus called him a devil (John 6:70).
Even so, Judas could not escape the divinely designed signal of guilt that reminds men of their sin and warns them of its consequences. Just as pain is an intrinsic and automatic warning of physical danger, guilt is an intrinsic and automatic warning of spiritual danger. It was not that Judas suddenly became afraid of God, else he would have turned in desperation to the One he knew could forgive him. Nor was he afraid of men. Although he was now discarded and despised by the Jewish leaders, they had no reason to harm him. It was rather that Judas suddenly realized the horrible wrongness of what he had done. An innate awareness of right and wrong is divinely built into every human being and cannot be totally erased, no matter how deep a person may fall into depravity or how consciously and rebelliously he may turn against God. This is intensified by the convicting pressure of the Spirit of God.
Judas’s remorse was not repentance of sin, as the King James version suggests. Matthew did not use metanoeo, which means a genuine change of mind and will, but metamelomai, which merely connotes regret or sorrow. He did not experience spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse. Although he would not repent of his sin, he could not escape the reality of his guilt. Genuine sorrow for sin (metamelomai) can be prompted by God in order to produce repentance (metanoeo), as Paul declares in 2 Corinthians 7:10. But Judas’s remorse was not prompted by God to lead to repentance but only to guilt and despair.
Because he was a kind of witness against Jesus, perhaps Judas thought that by admitting the wickedness of what he had done he would be punished as a false witness, as Deuteronomy 19:16–19 prescribed. Under that provision, he would have been crucified himself, suffering the penalty imposed on the one he caused to be falsely convicted. Instead of looking to Jesus’ for forgiveness and trusting in His atoning death, Judas’s perverted mind may have led him to believe that by dying he somehow could atone for his own sin.
Proof that Judas’s sorrow was ungodly and selfish is seen in the fact that he made no effort to defend or rescue Jesus. He had no desire to vindicate or save Jesus but only to salve his own conscience, which he attempted to do by returning the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders.

 

[Runningman]

Have to agree with this below on Judas: https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqnas-library/QA0115/did-judas-repent

"
The following is an excerpt from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary on Matthew 27.
Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? See to that yourself!” And he threw the pieces of silver into the sanctuary and departed; and he went away and hanged himself. (27:3–5)
We are not told where Judas was during the Jewish mock trials. He doubtless had followed the multitude from the Mount of Olives to Annas’s house and was waiting nearby, perhaps in the courtyard where Peter was. It is possible that he was called as one of the witnesses against Jesus, but that seems unlikely. Judas still had the onus of being a disciple of Jesus, and, in any case, the very fact he was a traitor would have made his testimony suspect. Because Judas had fulfilled his usefulness to them, the chief priests and elders wanted nothing more to do with him. He was now a rejected outcast-to them, to the disciples, and to Jewish society in general.
Then when could be translated “at that time,” which seems to fit the context. Even before dawn it had became obvious to Judas and the others in the courtyard that the foregone verdict of the Jewish leaders had been confirmed. Now Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw with his own eyes that He had been condemned. Although horao (saw) was sometimes used in the figurative sense of being aware of or perceiving, its use here suggests literal, physical sight. If Peter was able to see Jesus during at least part of the trial (Luke 22:61), then others in the courtyard could have seen Him as well. Judas had seen Jesus maligned, spat upon, beaten, and mocked. Now he watched in bewilderment as his condemned Teacher was taken to Pilate.
As Judas watched Jesus being carried away to Pilate, the full enormity of his treachery finally began to dawn on him as he realized the Jewish leaders did indeed intend to put Jesus to death. The one last obstacle was the permission of Pilate, which Judas had no reason to believe would be denied. Once Pilate consented, Jesus’ death would be inevitable.
The sight was devastating to Judas, more than even his money-hungry mind, his sordid soul, and his seared conscience could deal with. He felt remorse as he began to experience the intense, excruciating pain that is unique to profound guilt.
No man could be more evil than Judas Iscariot. Only eleven other men in all of history have had the intimate, personal relationship he had with the incarnate Son of God, No man has ever been more exposed to God’s perfect truth, both in precept and example. No man has been more exposed firsthand to God’s love, compassion, power, kindness, forgiveness, and grace. No man has had more evidence of Jesus’ divinity or more firsthand knowledge of the way of salvation. Yet in all of those three indescribably blessed years with Jesus, Judas did not take so much as the first step of faith.
In a way that defies comprehension, Judas persistently resisted and rejected God’s truth, God’s grace, and even God’s own Son. Also in a way that defies understanding, he managed to completely conceal his wicked rebellion from everyone but Jesus. His hypocrisy was so complete and deceptive that even when Jesus predicted that one of the disciples would betray Him, Judas was not suspected.
Judas was so totally trapped in the darkness and corruption of sin that he became a willing instrument of Satan. Because this false disciple had totally renounced Christ, “Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot” (Luke 22:3), and it was then a simple matter to persuade him to betray Jesus (John 13:2). Judas’s heart was so utterly hardened to the things of God that long before he consciously considered betraying Him, Jesus called him a devil (John 6:70).
Even so, Judas could not escape the divinely designed signal of guilt that reminds men of their sin and warns them of its consequences. Just as pain is an intrinsic and automatic warning of physical danger, guilt is an intrinsic and automatic warning of spiritual danger. It was not that Judas suddenly became afraid of God, else he would have turned in desperation to the One he knew could forgive him. Nor was he afraid of men. Although he was now discarded and despised by the Jewish leaders, they had no reason to harm him. It was rather that Judas suddenly realized the horrible wrongness of what he had done. An innate awareness of right and wrong is divinely built into every human being and cannot be totally erased, no matter how deep a person may fall into depravity or how consciously and rebelliously he may turn against God. This is intensified by the convicting pressure of the Spirit of God.
Judas’s remorse was not repentance of sin, as the King James version suggests. Matthew did not use metanoeo, which means a genuine change of mind and will, but metamelomai, which merely connotes regret or sorrow. He did not experience spiritual penitence but only emotional remorse. Although he would not repent of his sin, he could not escape the reality of his guilt. Genuine sorrow for sin (metamelomai) can be prompted by God in order to produce repentance (metanoeo), as Paul declares in 2 Corinthians 7:10. But Judas’s remorse was not prompted by God to lead to repentance but only to guilt and despair.
Because he was a kind of witness against Jesus, perhaps Judas thought that by admitting the wickedness of what he had done he would be punished as a false witness, as Deuteronomy 19:16–19 prescribed. Under that provision, he would have been crucified himself, suffering the penalty imposed on the one he caused to be falsely convicted. Instead of looking to Jesus’ for forgiveness and trusting in His atoning death, Judas’s perverted mind may have led him to believe that by dying he somehow could atone for his own sin.
Proof that Judas’s sorrow was ungodly and selfish is seen in the fact that he made no effort to defend or rescue Jesus. He had no desire to vindicate or save Jesus but only to salve his own conscience, which he attempted to do by returning the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders.

Some of John MacArthur’s commentary is good, but it started going off the rails here:

“Judas did not take so much as the first step of faith.” - John MacArthur, The Complete New Testament Commentary

That’s false. Jesus chose Judas as one of the original 12 disciples early on in His ministry. Peter noted in Matthew 19:27 “We have left everything to follow you!” That’s a greater step of faith than most Christians make today and Judas did it.

Additionally, Judas exercised spiritual gifts:

Luke 9
1When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

6So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.

10When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida,

As we all know, believing is required to perform miracles:

Mark 16
17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

So it’s pretty clear that Judas was a believer or he couldn’t have did the miracles Jesus have him the power to do.

I highly recommend fine-tooth-combing any commentaries, traditions, or commonly-held church doctrines. Not all of them are correct. It’s better to just read the Bible and I just proved Judas was a believer.

 

[Runningman]

Some of John MacArthur’s commentary is good, but it started going off the rails here:

“Judas did not take so much as the first step of faith.” - John MacArthur, The Complete New Testament Commentary

That’s false. Jesus chose Judas as one of the original 12 disciples early on in His ministry. Peter noted in Matthew 19:27 “We have left everything to follow you!” That’s a greater step of faith than most Christians make today and Judas did it.

Additionally, Judas exercised spiritual gifts:

Luke 9
1When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

6So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.

10When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida,

As we all know, believing is required to perform miracles:

Mark 16
17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

So it’s pretty clear that Judas was a believer or he couldn’t have did the miracles Jesus have him the power to do.

I highly recommend fine-tooth-combing any commentaries, traditions, or commonly-held church doctrines. Not all of them are correct. It’s better to just read the Bible and I just proved Judas was a believer.

Now that I have proven Judas was a believer, I have OSAS in a corner.

 

[Sipsey]

I looked at it and the word repent that describes Judas in Matthew 27:3 means regret, repent, changing one’s mind (generally for the better.) That’s what God wants.

Nope-Look closer—-
Matthew 27:3 (KJV)
[3] ¶ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented - (himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

3338. μεταμέλομαι metamélomai; fut. metamelḗsomai, from metá (3326), denoting change of place or condition, and mélomai, mid. of mélō (n.f. see mélei [3199], to concern), to be concerned. To regret (Mt 21:29,32; 27:3; 2Co 7:8; Heb 7:21 quoted from Ps 110:4). The aor. pass. metemelḗthēn has the meaning of changing one's mind or purpose after having done something regrettable. Contrasted with metanoéō (3340), to repent, it expresses the mere desire that what is done may be undone, accompanied with regrets or even remorse, but with no effective change of heart. Metaméleia (which does not occur in the NT) is an ineffective repentance for which the forgiveness of sins is not promised (as it is for metánoia [3341], repentance, see Mk 1:4; Lk 3:3; Ac 2:38). Metamélomai, on the part of man, means little or nothing more than a selfish dread of the consequence of what one has done, whereas metanoéō means regret and forsaking the evil by a change of heart brought about by God's Spirit. On the part of God in Heb 7:21, metamélomai means His plan of salvation for man can have no improvement; He made no mistake.

 

[Beckie]

Uttering the words “will you forgive me?” isn’t required. The Bible is clear about confession and repentance being the prerequisite to forgiveness.

Unless you’re aware of something I don’t know. Got any verse that say one needs to ask for forgiveness after repenting of their sins?

so the bad guy who say yup i killed her is fine? I have not looked into that , i will, a life time of assuming asking was just part of repenting...

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Again, Judas should have gone to the Lord Jesus on the Cross, kissed His Feet, begged for Mercy, with contrition, sorrow, heartfelt repentance and desire to amend his life, and he would have been forgiven. Earlier we see the sinful woman who wept at Jesus Feet with faith, devotion and love toward Him, was immediately forgiven. So much more would Judas have been forgiven and re-justified if he had kissed the Feet of Jesus Crucified, and the Blood of Christ would have fallen upon him from the Cross and washed away that Greatest of Sin that he committed: Deicide or plotting to murder God. Judas is an example that hardness in deliberately committing sin over a long period of time (as opposed to a genuine moment of involuntary weakness) leads to hardness in being unwilling to genuinely repent. A divine warning imo to all of us and to the world generally.

God Bless.

 

[Inquisitor]

Some of John MacArthur’s commentary is good, but it started going off the rails here:

“Judas did not take so much as the first step of faith.” - John MacArthur, The Complete New Testament Commentary

That’s false. Jesus chose Judas as one of the original 12 disciples early on in His ministry. Peter noted in Matthew 19:27 “We have left everything to follow you!” That’s a greater step of faith than most Christians make today and Judas did it.

Additionally, Judas exercised spiritual gifts:

Luke 9
1When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2and he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

6So they set out and went from village to village, proclaiming the good news and healing people everywhere.

10When the apostles returned, they reported to Jesus what they had done. Then he took them with him and they withdrew by themselves to a town called Bethsaida,

As we all know, believing is required to perform miracles:

Mark 16
17And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”

John 14
12Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

So it’s pretty clear that Judas was a believer or he couldn’t have did the miracles Jesus have him the power to do.

I highly recommend fine-tooth-combing any commentaries, traditions, or commonly-held church doctrines. Not all of them are correct. It’s better to just read the Bible and I just proved Judas was a believer.

Judas was also a thief.

John 12:4-6
But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, the one who intended to betray Him, said, “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it.

Judas might not be the man of faith that your claiming.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

I think it was probable that Judas was justified once but not finally saved. He most likely believed in Christ to begin with, and may even apologized/said sorry etc to the Lord for some of his sins. But later on, around the 3rd year of Christ's Ministry, Judas began his downward descent. Robbing from the money purse etc and later conspiring with the Pharisees to kill Jesus. Truly, in his case, it was verified that: "For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." (1 Tim 6:10). We do not read of other sins of his, such as pride, enyy, gluttony or lust etc, but we do read, that he was greedy, and loved money too much, and this probly caused him to wander from the Faith.

 

[Runningman]

Nope-Look closer—-
Matthew 27:3 (KJV)
[3] ¶ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented - (himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

3338. μεταμέλομαι metamélomai; fut. metamelḗsomai, from metá (3326), denoting change of place or condition, and mélomai, mid. of mélō (n.f. see mélei [3199], to concern), to be concerned. To regret (Mt 21:29,32; 27:3; 2Co 7:8; Heb 7:21 quoted from Ps 110:4). The aor. pass. metemelḗthēn has the meaning of changing one's mind or purpose after having done something regrettable. Contrasted with metanoéō (3340), to repent, it expresses the mere desire that what is done may be undone, accompanied with regrets or even remorse, but with no effective change of heart. Metaméleia (which does not occur in the NT) is an ineffective repentance for which the forgiveness of sins is not promised (as it is for metánoia [3341], repentance, see Mk 1:4; Lk 3:3; Ac 2:38). Metamélomai, on the part of man, means little or nothing more than a selfish dread of the consequence of what one has done, whereas metanoéō means regret and forsaking the evil by a change of heart brought about by God's Spirit. On the part of God in Heb 7:21, metamélomai means His plan of salvation for man can have no improvement; He made no mistake.

Acts 2:37,38 describes an after the fact kind of repentance, the same kind that Judas had. People repent after they are informed about their sins. That’s the whole point of telling people about their sins so they can realize their need to repent. It’s a normal and valid form of repentance. I think you’re splitting hairs a bit over semantics.

Acts 2:37,38
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.