Not By Works

Phoneman-777 · Apr 2, 2021

VCO said:

I periodically check your POSTS, as you are on my IGNORE LIST. And you Seem to be STUCK on OSAS is a LICENCE TO SIN.

There is NO SUCH THING AS A LICENSE TO SIN.

Those who habitually sin, ONLY prove they NEVER were BORN AGAIN.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

That is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH THAT YOU KEEP DENYING AND DOUBTING that it is ACTUALLY the POWER OF GOD. It is not Our personal power that SAVES US, IT IS GOD's POWER, and it exists in the whole HOLY TRINITY. YOU SHOW you have NO TRUST in the Power of GOD.

Jude 1:24-25 (HCSB)
24 Now to Him who is able to protect you from stumbling and to make you stand in the presence of His glory, blameless and with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, power, and authority before all time, now and forever. Amen.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 15:26-27 (YLT)
26 `And when the Comforter may come, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth, who from the Father doth come forth, he will testify of me;
27 and ye also do testify, because from the beginning ye are with me.

Romans 8:28-30 (HCSB)
28 We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God: those who are called according to His purpose.
29 For those He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
30 And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

Why do you have such a hard time BELIEVING what GOD has WRITTEN.

THEN you come back with BITTERNESS, and you STIR UP ARGUMENTS among the Brethren, which is a Grievous SIN, and probably think you are holy. Could it be because you do not have the Holy Spirit in you, 3 verses above ? ? ?

Proverbs 6:16-19 (ESV)
16 There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

I have watched as several Brothers and Sisters tried to explain our beliefs to you, and you instantly REJECT THEM.
Please step back and evaluate your Schemes ? They certainly are not godly Schemes ? ? ?

There they are amongst the 7 things that GOD HATES.

What you call “schemes” others call Sound Biblical Doctrine. You have been shown Scripturally that true belief leads us to surrender, while the mere mental assent with which OSAS seeks to replace surrender is no different than the belief of trembling devils.

OSAS is the false assurance that we by dead faith may obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life.

However, God’s Word never returns to Him void, so the one thing you CAN have legitimate assurance in is that sincere OSAS believers will eventually abandon their OSAS License to Sin and commit both their trust AND will to Jesus.

tribesman · Apr 2, 2021

101G said:

Addressing the OP,
good topic, corect, there is no work, or works that we can do in order to be save, but one, (believe God), but we're saved to go to wok, for him. we're saved to work, in which we're rewarded at the white throne judgment.

but correct, before Christ, no works, but one belief in christ Jesus, after christ, full employment in the service of God. Romans 12:1.

PICJAG,
101G

Yes. AND this grace leads to perseverance to the end. Matt.24:13.

101G · Apr 2, 2021

tribesman said:

agreed, and true, because of the GREATER ONE who is in us. for he is the author and finisher of our Faith, for without Faith, Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

and anothing on Faith, Romans 14:23b "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

now that's something to really consider.

thanks,
PICJAG,
101G.

tribesman · Apr 2, 2021

101G said:

agreed, and true, because of the GREATER ONE who is in us. for he is the author and finisher of our Faith, for without Faith, Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

and anothing on Faith, Romans 14:23b "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

now that's something to really consider.

thanks,
PICJAG,
101G.

Well said and welcome to CC.

101G · Apr 2, 2021

tribesman said:

Thanks.

PICJAG,
101G.

JBTN · Apr 2, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

Absolutely
Verse doesn’t say that - that’s an inference which finds no support in Scripture.

However, an inference that is Scriptural is that a saint who withdraws his surrender from Christ forgets Christ and no longer knows Him — just as God says Himself He will forget the righteous deeds of a saint who turns back to wickedness:

Ezekiel 33:13 KJV

“When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.”

This is hardly a defense of OSAS: Yes, these “antichrists” are plainly mentioned as having never belonged to Christ and were obviously wolves on sheep’s clothing, but does everyone who turns their back on Jesus seek to “take the place of Christ” (literally what “antichrist” means) over the rest of the church? No. Most are content to return to merely enjoying the pleasures of iniquity for a season.

“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.3.6.kjv

I think this makes it clear. A person who continues in sin has never known him.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 2, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

I did.

Learned nothing new.

You should read his post again, And lay aside your pride and see what he really said.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 2, 2021

101G said:

Addressing the OP,
good topic, corect, there is no work, or works that we can do in order to be save, but one, (believe God), but we're saved to go to wok, for him. we're saved to work, in which we're rewarded at the white throne judgment.

but correct, before Christ, no works, but one belief in christ Jesus, after christ, full employment in the service of God. Romans 12:1.

PICJAG,
101G

welcome back!

eternally-gratefull · Apr 2, 2021

JBTN said:

Amen

They deny the power of God..

posthuman · Apr 2, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

this definition is not consistent with what anyone here believes. we don't obtain life through works, but through mercy -- but you're still working with this strawman-imaginary-person whom God somehow simultaneously redeems but doesn't redeem.

you're describing a false salvation in which God is not and never has been at work in a person. you're describing a deceived person and a gospel of works wholly independent of the power of God, resting completely on human will, determination & effort to whitewash a tomb.

ronair · Apr 2, 2021

JBTN said:

Correct and the person who knows Him will not sin.

JBTN · Apr 2, 2021

ronair said:

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.7.14-25.kjv

Consider Paul’s take on that here. He clearly tells us that he continued to sin, but he also continued to struggle against that sin.

“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.3.3.kjv

VCO · Apr 2, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

And Your opinion of what Constitutes "Sound Biblicial Doctrine" is based on LIES and Mis-information about OSAS. Almost everything you have believed about OSAS is a Lie. Almost everyone on this board has tried to correct you, and told what we really believe, and you will not listen. Do you know it is not that you believe the opposite that we do, on SALVATION; why I had to put you on my IGNORE LIST. It is your Constant LIES and MIS-INFORMATION about OSAS Beliefs. You seem to have a PERSONAL VENDETTA against OSAS, what WE BELIEVE IN WITH OUR WHOLE HEART, which goes Much, Much DEEPER than you could ever imagine.

Do you know, almost everyone on this board recognizes your Lies and Mis-Information, and none of us can respect that. If you had everything correct about our Beliefs, and said "I cannot believe that, because of this verse and that verse." We could respect your viewpoint, while we just Agree to Disagree, and we would pray for you to understand. But that is not the case, and your constant Lies and Mis-Information, is only rediculous.

It can only fall into this category, please repent.

Proverbs 6:16-19 (HCSB)
16 The LORD hates six things; in fact, seven are detestable to Him:
17 arrogant eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that plots wicked schemes, feet eager to run to evil,
19 a lying witness who gives false testimony,
and one who stirs up trouble among brothers.

That is a fact, and the truth. How do you correct this Problem ? ? ? Please Trashcan everything you have ever LEARNED about OSAS,
and ask us what do we really believe, and WHY ? ? ? We will be honest with you, unlike the teacher you learned the Lies and Mis-Information from.

Phoneman-777 · Apr 2, 2021

VCO said:

OSAS allows saints to escape the punishments of hell while indulging the exact same iniquity that will consign sinners to hell. Only those who are completely blinded by Satan will refuse to admit OSAS is what it is: a License to Sin.

"When I shall say to the righteous, [that] he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it." -- Ezekiel 33:13 KJV

Are you as deceived by the lie of Dispensationalism (Darby himself being fully seduced by Jesuit Futurism) as you are by the lie of OSAS? Hebrews 10:26 KJV, 2 Peter 2:20-22 KJV, Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV, Matthew 23:18-34 KJV; Matthew 24:12-13 KJV all testify to the NT applicability of this OT truth.

CherieR · Apr 2, 2021

Phoneman-777 said:

Faith is much more than mental assent. To have faith in God is to believe on, look to, hope in and trust in God. Many who believe in eternal security do not think saving faith is only mental assent to a set of beliefs. I believe it is deeper than that.

ronair · Apr 2, 2021

JBTN said:

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.7.14-25.kjv

Consider Paul’s take on that here. He clearly tells us that he continued to sin, but he also continued to struggle against that sin.

“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.3.3.kjv

I was commenting on the verse you offered. Do you only accept half of it??

JBTN · Apr 2, 2021

ronair said:

No of course not. I accept the whole thing. A person who continues in sin without remorse and without struggling against it has never known Christ. None of us are ever able to stop sinning completely, this is the struggle that Paul was talking about. Notice how Paul puts it.

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.7.14-25.kjv

See how he says ”it is no more I that do it”.

“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.3.3.kjv

ronair · Apr 2, 2021

JBTN said:

No of course not. I accept the whole thing. A person who continues in sin without remorse and without struggling against it has never known Christ. None of us are ever able to stop sinning completely, this is the struggle that Paul was talking about. Notice how Paul puts it.

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.7.14-25.kjv

See how he says ”it is no more I that do it”.

“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/1jn.3.3.kjv

I may be a little confused but on Post# 151,346 you used this verse as a proof-text that those who sin have not "seen" Him or "known" Him. If you are correct that the former is true then the latter is also true. Would you not agree?

JBTN · Apr 2, 2021

ronair said:

Post #151357 explains both parts.

Both are true. Christians have their hope and faith in Christ and they continuously struggle against the sin in their life. We know the Apostle Paul was a Christian. We know also that he continued to have sin in his life due to the weakness of his flesh, as he told us. Again see how Paul puts it.

“For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:14-25‬ ‭KJV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1/rom.7.14-25.kjv

He says “ it is no more I that do it”. So, it is in this sense that Christians no longer sin. It’s all laid out right there.

posthuman · Apr 2, 2021

JBTN said:

because we have died in Him. the old corpse and its ways are not us anymore, wisdom is to put it away. that's all explained in ch. 6; it is how we are saved - through His crucifixion - and through His resurrection we have life, even as we are also being renewed

the 2nd goat is set free at Yom Kippur; the two birds are undivided in Genesis 15, left whole

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