Not By Works
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Most of us interpret it Literally, and Because of this Verse, we think it is understandable to anyone who wants to understand it:
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ESV)
19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
He was not then speaking in Mysteries, it was Plain enough for anyone who wants to hear the TRUTH, (do not get upset, and I will tell you exactly what I think about your Beliefs), so you have used the wrong THEORY about how to interpret the BIBLE. According to the Statement of Faith of the Primitive Baptist denomination, You do not believe in BIBLE COLLEGE. If that is so, then in my opinion, that is a recipe for THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND. Please do not get upset, that is my honest opinion. You have to be DECIPLED BY MEN THAT UNDERSTAND THE ORIGINAL LANGUAGE, or one TWIST in the Meaning of Scripture, will lead to another, and another, and another.
Jesus was EDUCATED and He spoke fluently in Ancient Hebrew and Aramaic, and probably GREEK TOO:
Mark 15:34 (NRSV)
34 At three o'clock Jesus cried out with a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"
Which means HE was educated in Aramaic as well as Ancient Hebrew. All Students in Israel who could afford an education HAD TO LEARN ANCIENT HEBREW, and Joseph inherited his father's property, and Mary's father's property. Therefore JESUS was educated.
ALSO, SO MUCH FOR THE CHARIMATIC THEORY, of a heavenly language that only GOD could understand, OR JESUS would have used it there.
So more Proof that JESUS understood Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and GREEK, lies in this VERSE:
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV)
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
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I am no
I am not at all mad at you. I enjoy discussing the scriptures and believe that they are the only source in gaining insight into the doctrine that Jesus taught. I do not place my trust in the theory of educated men, and believe that the Holy Ghost can reveal the truths of the doctrine of Jesus to the least of uneducated people.
Matt 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
I respect where you stand in your beliefs. All my life, as I tried to make sense of the scriptures where they would , seemingly, contradict each other, such as, You are saved by grace and that not of yourselves, lest any man should boast, compared to, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. And also, God so loved the world, compared to, Love not the world.
When I was 50 years old, I had the mindset that I was smart enough, that if I bought the Strong's concordance, and set my entilic mind to it, that I could figure it out. I sat under many preachers and teachers, taking notes and comparing them to a diligent study of the scriptures for twelve years, without gaining any understanding to the, so called, contradictions. I finally gave up, and told God that I just was not smart enough to figure it out, and would just have to settle on the fact that I would have to be content with my life the way it was.
Shortly after I had denied my entelic, all of my hard studying began to be revealed to me through the help of the Holy Ghost within me to understand the scriptures to harmonize with one another.
I am not a very intelligent person, only finishing one year of college. before being drafted into the army.
I am not at all mad at you. I enjoy discussing the scriptures and believe that they are the only source in gaining insight into the doctrine that Jesus taught. I do not place my trust in the theory of educated men, and believe that the Holy Ghost can reveal the truths of the doctrine of Jesus to the least of uneducated people.
Matt 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
I respect where you stand in your beliefs. All my life, as I tried to make sense of the scriptures where they would , seemingly, contradict each other, such as, You are saved by grace and that not of yourselves, lest any man should boast, compared to, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. And also, God so loved the world, compared to, Love not the world.
When I was 50 years old, I had the mindset that I was smart enough, that if I bought the Strong's concordance, and set my entilic mind to it, that I could figure it out. I sat under many preachers and teachers, taking notes and comparing them to a diligent study of the scriptures for twelve years, without gaining any understanding to the, so called, contradictions. I finally gave up, and told God that I just was not smart enough to figure it out, and would just have to settle on the fact that I would have to be content with my life the way it was.
Shortly after I had denied my entelic, all of my hard studying began to be revealed to me through the help of the Holy Ghost within me to understand the scriptures to harmonize with one another.
I am not a very intelligent person, only finishing one year of college. before being drafted into the army.
Matt 11:25, At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
THAT does not mean HE SPEAKS in Riddles, but rather that a Babe can understand it, because HE WANTS TO UNDERSTAND,
while the wise and prudent, are wise in their own eyes, and therefore was blind to the PLAIN TRUTH.
You are self deceived because you do not even want to rely on a book to spell intellect correctly.
Hear are some verses on HOW GOD EXPECTS US to learn from other that have properly studied the TRUTH.
Ephesians 4:11-13 (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
You admit, there is NO UNITY OF THE FAITH because of your beliefs.
Evangelists, Pastors, and Teachers were TRAINED IN BIBLE COLLEGE, so they have a BETTER chance to arrive at the UNITY of the FAITH that GOD DESIRES. One error your part, only result in your whole THEORY OF INTERPRETATION going complete astray.
2 Timothy 2:14-15 (KJV)
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
MUCH of you doctrine is based on your imagination, and rightly dividing the word of truth which is impossible without studying the Original Languages.
2 Timothy 4:3 (KJV)
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Proverbs 8:33 (KJV)
33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not.
Jeremiah 17:23 (KJV)
23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear,
Jews with enough money for education, were required to learn the original Languages.
QUOTE:
History
Jewish education has been valued since the birth of Judaism. Abraham is lauded for instructing his offspring in God's ways.[5] One of the basic duties of Jewish parents is to provide for the instruction of their children as set forth in the first paragraph of the Shema Yisrael prayer: “Take to heart these instructions with which I charge you this day. Impress them upon your children. Recite them when you stay at home and when you are away, when you lie down and when you get up. Bind them as sign on your hand and let them serve as a symbol on your forehead; inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and your gates” (Deut. 6:6-9). Additionally, children are advised to seek the instruction of their parents: "Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations; ask thy father, and he will declare unto thee, thine elders, and they will tell thee" (Deut. 32:7). The Book of Proverbs also contains many verses related to education: “My son, do not forget my teaching, but let your mind retain my commandments; For they will bestow on you length of days, years of life and well-being“ (Prov. 3:1-2).
Elementary school learning was regarded as compulsory by Simeon ben Shetah as early as 75 BCE and Joshua ben Gamla in 64 CE. The education of older boys and men in a beit midrash goes back to the Second Temple period. The importance of education is stressed in the Talmud, which states that children should begin school at six. The rabbis stated that they should not be beaten with a stick or cane, that older students should help those who were younger, and that children should not be kept from their lessons by other duties.
. . . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_education
:END QUOTE.
QUOTE:
Jewish boys and girls have been learning Hebrew for millenia, because it is the language of the Torah, halakha (works of Jewish law) and commentaries. Even the Talmud, which is in a mixture of Aramaic and Hebrew, cannot be understood without a thorough knowledge of Hebrew. No matter what country they lived in, the great majority of authors of Torah-works wrote in Hebrew.
https://www.answers.com/Q/Why_do_Jewish_boys_have_to_learn_Hebrew
:END QUOTE.
Jews were taught from the beginning, not to shun education.
I guess you could say I was a draft dodger,
As I ENLISTED IN THE AIR FORCE.
Spend 15 months in Turkey, a Year and a Half on Okinawa, and the Last year at Ft. George G. Meade, (NSA), in Maryland.
It was interesting in Turkey, as I went to the Bob Hope Christmas Show. And later on a Chapel Sponsored tour of the Cave Churches near Göreme.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cave+Churches+in+central+Turkey&atb=v229-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https://cromwell-intl.com/travel/turkey/goreme/pictures/goreme-cappadocia-013-014.jpg&pn=5
We also went DUCK Hunting almost every weekend, no season, no bag limit. We gave ducks that to the Turks that hunted with us, and kept one apiece, dropped them off at the backdoor of the NCO Club Kitchen. The would clean the ducks, cook them, and serve them with meal, for .90 cents. We would go to the barracks, to shower and chance closes, so we had a Duck Dinner every weekend that we went hunting.
Okinawa was nice too, as I learned to Scuba Dive, and week diving about 6 times a week. I actually saw one of this up, only I was even closer than this, looking right down his throat:
There was a bright sun out that day, and I stuck my head in that small coral hole, and it took about a minute for my Eyes to adjust to the light. SURPRISE, here was the Moray Eel, ready to bite my face off. Can you SCREAM in Scuba Gear, YES YOU CAN.
As I ENLISTED IN THE AIR FORCE.
Spend 15 months in Turkey, a Year and a Half on Okinawa, and the Last year at Ft. George G. Meade, (NSA), in Maryland.
It was interesting in Turkey, as I went to the Bob Hope Christmas Show. And later on a Chapel Sponsored tour of the Cave Churches near Göreme.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Cave+Churches+in+central+Turkey&atb=v229-1&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https://cromwell-intl.com/travel/turkey/goreme/pictures/goreme-cappadocia-013-014.jpg&pn=5
We also went DUCK Hunting almost every weekend, no season, no bag limit. We gave ducks that to the Turks that hunted with us, and kept one apiece, dropped them off at the backdoor of the NCO Club Kitchen. The would clean the ducks, cook them, and serve them with meal, for .90 cents. We would go to the barracks, to shower and chance closes, so we had a Duck Dinner every weekend that we went hunting.
Okinawa was nice too, as I learned to Scuba Dive, and week diving about 6 times a week. I actually saw one of this up, only I was even closer than this, looking right down his throat:
There was a bright sun out that day, and I stuck my head in that small coral hole, and it took about a minute for my Eyes to adjust to the light. SURPRISE, here was the Moray Eel, ready to bite my face off. Can you SCREAM in Scuba Gear, YES YOU CAN.
Level of education is not necessarily a true measure of intelligence 
Hi Magenta,
I am trying to keep this thread going until we read 150, 000 posts. Only 512 to go, will I make it ? ? ?
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I will admit that spelling is my downfall, but I do not think it is a deterrent in my receiving the revelation of the Holy Ghost about the truths in the scriptures.
Acts 22:3, I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are to this day.
Phil 3:1-8, Yea doubtless, I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.
Acts 4:13, Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men.
Being unlearned about the things of the world does not hinder you to receive the revelation of the Holy Ghost that is within you.
Acts 22:3, I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are to this day.
Phil 3:1-8, Yea doubtless, I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ.
Acts 4:13, Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men.
Being unlearned about the things of the world does not hinder you to receive the revelation of the Holy Ghost that is within you.
I know, about spelling is my downfall. Mine is atrocious. Yes I got that last world WRONG, but Spellcheck helped me.
When you use Scripture in a way that original Writer never intended it to be used. That is the worst mistake you can make interpreting Scripture.
Peter and John were not in reality ignorant, that is the way most PERCEIVED Fisherman from Galilee. LUKE was a Doctor, so HE DID NOT SHUN EDUCATION, and PAUL was the most LEARNED APOSTLE, so HE DID NOT SHUN EDUCATION either.
That false idea of yours that it is GOD's will to Shun Education, is the root of all your troubles.
1 Chronicles 25:8 (HCSB)
8 They cast lots for their duties, young and old alike, teacher as well as pupil.
Discipleship, involves one who HAS LEARNED the original languages enough, to TEACH OTHERS.
Proverbs 5:12-14 (ESV)
12 and you say, “How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof!
13 I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors.
14 I am at the brink of utter ruin in the assembled congregation.”
When you use Scripture in a way that original Writer never intended it to be used. That is the worst mistake you can make interpreting Scripture.
Peter and John were not in reality ignorant, that is the way most PERCEIVED Fisherman from Galilee. LUKE was a Doctor, so HE DID NOT SHUN EDUCATION, and PAUL was the most LEARNED APOSTLE, so HE DID NOT SHUN EDUCATION either.
That false idea of yours that it is GOD's will to Shun Education, is the root of all your troubles.
1 Chronicles 25:8 (HCSB)
8 They cast lots for their duties, young and old alike, teacher as well as pupil.
Discipleship, involves one who HAS LEARNED the original languages enough, to TEACH OTHERS.
Proverbs 5:12-14 (ESV)
12 and you say, “How I hated discipline, and my heart despised reproof!
13 I did not listen to the voice of my teachers or incline my ear to my instructors.
14 I am at the brink of utter ruin in the assembled congregation.”
If it is not a put down on education in Paul's case, why does he use the word "dung", which according to Thayer's concordance means, used of things that are worthless and detestable.
Are you sure that you are not misinterpreting it to fit your false theory
One thing about understanding the truths in the doctrine that Jesus taught, is that all of the scriptures have to harmonize, and if they do not you are misinterpreting the scriptures.
Are you sure that you are not misinterpreting it to fit your false theory
One thing about understanding the truths in the doctrine that Jesus taught, is that all of the scriptures have to harmonize, and if they do not you are misinterpreting the scriptures.
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well Paul isn't talking only about education in this context. he's talking also about his birthright as a Jew, about his zeal, about the upright life he had lived. compared with the glorious gift of salvation through Christ? "all things" are good as dung.
in other words, what could anyone possibly boast of? nothing, apart from having been known by Christ, and knowing Him: which is glory to Christ, not to us. so there is no boasting left when one comes to knowledge of God
in other words, what could anyone possibly boast of? nothing, apart from having been known by Christ, and knowing Him: which is glory to Christ, not to us. so there is no boasting left when one comes to knowledge of God
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New age religion types...there are many....would like to put followers on a guilt trip by saying just what the Bible says....not by works alone....is one saved. There are a lot of new age religion teachings that are just...wrong.
Works are a requirement of righteous living. Just don't forget they are not the sole requirement....they are part of a package of righteous living.
Works are a requirement of righteous living. Just don't forget they are not the sole requirement....they are part of a package of righteous living.
I am Absolutely Positive that the Holy Spirit has interpreted that Scripture Correctly.
Are you sure you are listening to the HOLY SPIRIT, or could it be another spirit you have been listening to ? ? ?
Yes, Paul studied the LAW with the aim PERSICUTING Christians. He had an evil MOTIVE for studying the Law. Had he studied the LAW, for the RIGHT MOTIVE, it would have lead him to the LORD, instead CHRIST HAD TO BLIND HIM ON THE DEMASCUS Road.
That same word is Interpreted in the NKJV and NASB is RUBBISH, which it certainly means REFUSE is "SKUBALON" <G4657>.
Philippians 3:7-10 (NKJV)
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
I will finish this tomorrow. Too Tired to continue.
Here is where you went WRONG in your interpretation of that word Dung or Refuse.
IT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION, but the JEWISH mindset and MOTIVE for their so-called LOVE and Obedience to GOD.
QUOTE:
It also corresponds to a Hebrew word used of God’s knowledge of His people (Amos 3:2) and their knowledge of Him in love and obedience (Jer. 31:34; Hos. 6:3; 8:2). rubbish. The Greek word refers to garbage or waste, and can even be translated “dung” or “manure.”
The MacArthur Bible Commentary. :END QUOTE.
It is talking about TRULY KNOWING THE LORD, and out of that DEEP AGAPE LOVE, truly wanting to SHOW THEIR LOVE By OBEYING HIM. The Jews Love for GOD was LESS than AGAPE LOVE, and therefore the MOTIVE for their obedience was ALL WRONG.
SALVATION is not a product of Blind OBEDIENCE, BUT IT IS A PRODUCT OF GENUINE AGAPE LOVE. Obedience is not the cause of SALVATION, the MOTIVE for OBEDIENCE, is Genuine AGAPE LOVE.
Anything LESS only produces WOOD, HAY and STUBBLE that will BURN UP, at BEST; or FILTHY RAGS at the absolute WORST. THAT is the Rubbish the JEWS WERE PRODUCING, because NOTHING was Produced out AGAPE LOVE; NOT because of their Education, it was because of their LACK OF AGAPE LOVE.
Mal 3:6 (NASB77)
“For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Therefore the same way HE SAVES NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS,
Is the SAME WAY HE SAVES THE OLD TESTAMENT BELIEVERS.
Are you sure you are listening to the HOLY SPIRIT, or could it be another spirit you have been listening to ? ? ?
Yes, Paul studied the LAW with the aim PERSICUTING Christians. He had an evil MOTIVE for studying the Law. Had he studied the LAW, for the RIGHT MOTIVE, it would have lead him to the LORD, instead CHRIST HAD TO BLIND HIM ON THE DEMASCUS Road.
That same word is Interpreted in the NKJV and NASB is RUBBISH, which it certainly means REFUSE is "SKUBALON" <G4657>.
Philippians 3:7-10 (NKJV)
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
I will finish this tomorrow. Too Tired to continue.
Here is where you went WRONG in your interpretation of that word Dung or Refuse.
IT IS NOT TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION, but the JEWISH mindset and MOTIVE for their so-called LOVE and Obedience to GOD.
QUOTE:
It also corresponds to a Hebrew word used of God’s knowledge of His people (Amos 3:2) and their knowledge of Him in love and obedience (Jer. 31:34; Hos. 6:3; 8:2). rubbish. The Greek word refers to garbage or waste, and can even be translated “dung” or “manure.”
The MacArthur Bible Commentary. :END QUOTE.
It is talking about TRULY KNOWING THE LORD, and out of that DEEP AGAPE LOVE, truly wanting to SHOW THEIR LOVE By OBEYING HIM. The Jews Love for GOD was LESS than AGAPE LOVE, and therefore the MOTIVE for their obedience was ALL WRONG.
SALVATION is not a product of Blind OBEDIENCE, BUT IT IS A PRODUCT OF GENUINE AGAPE LOVE. Obedience is not the cause of SALVATION, the MOTIVE for OBEDIENCE, is Genuine AGAPE LOVE.
Anything LESS only produces WOOD, HAY and STUBBLE that will BURN UP, at BEST; or FILTHY RAGS at the absolute WORST. THAT is the Rubbish the JEWS WERE PRODUCING, because NOTHING was Produced out AGAPE LOVE; NOT because of their Education, it was because of their LACK OF AGAPE LOVE.
Mal 3:6 (NASB77)
“For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.
Therefore the same way HE SAVES NEW TESTAMENT BELIEVERS,
Is the SAME WAY HE SAVES THE OLD TESTAMENT BELIEVERS.
Matthew 16:24 (NASB)
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny <G533> himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
No it does not mean Disowned!!! You are using the KJV, that was PARAPHRASE from 5 or 6 earlier Translations with KNOWN ERRORS. When you Paraphrase an old English Translation to update the Language, you run a risk that some errors in that earlier Translation, will get copied over to your update. The Greek 533 only can mean DENY or DENIED. While the word 720 can on rare occasions carry the meaning Disowned.
What you have found is an error in the KJV that they MISSED.
QUOTE:
Greek NASB Number: 533
Greek Word: ἀπαρνέομαι
Transliterated Word: aparneomai
Root: from 575 and 720;
Definition: to deny:--
List of English Words and Number of Times Used
denied (2),
deny (9).
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
Greek NASB Number: 720
Greek Word: ἀρνέομαι
Transliterated Word: arneomai
Root: of unc. or.;
Definition: to deny, say no:--
List of English Words and Number of Times Used
denied (10),
denies (5),
deny (12),
denying (2),
disowned (3),
refused (1).
New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.
:END QUOTE.