Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Who are the twelve tribes scattered abroad? The body of Christ? Christian Jews? Please tell me who you think they are?
Does not matter

DEAD FAITH no matter who it is, never saved anyone.

If your faith was dead. Your no more saved than they were
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Did Daniel have sacrifices for his sin so they could be forgiven, As well as ALL other people of God in the same time period?

I am not just talking about Daniel. I am talking about ALL jews alive and died before a new temple was built
I’m not certain if the made alters for sacrifices or not. What I do know is Daniel is a type of tribulation saint. Because of the cross, the sacrificial system has ceased as in the days of Daniel. One must have faith in the Lord and refuse to worship the image.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
You did not answer my question

James said their faith was dead (literally lifeless or non existent)

Does dead faith, mere belief save?

or not?
Faith alone? Yes. No works. Dead meaning alone. In your theology, a man cannot be saved on His death bed for He has no works to justify him.

How many works justifies a man? What kind of works justifies a man? Feeding the poor? Clothing the needy? I’m justified by the faith of Christ. He’s done all the works. He is the just and justifier to them that believe.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Does not matter

DEAD FAITH no matter who it is, never saved anyone.

If your faith was dead. Your no more saved than they were
At least admit that James is not addressing the body of Christ? At least admit the book of James is addressing the nation of Israel, saved or lost.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Part of our labor is leading people to Jesus. But there’s more to our labor. Consider 2 Corinthians 5.

9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
The context of 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is the ministry of planting and watering and building in the field and building of God.
Failure in that venture will only rob you of the reward for successful labor.
Failure to raise a crop in regard to personal obedience results in YOU YOURSELF being burned up in damnation:

"8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned." - Hebrews 6:8

But the new osas says this is wrong and that you will be saved if in the end you are a barren, thorny field. Two different outcomes for two different objects of one's 'labor'.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
They do? I’ve never heard that before. Can you post someone saying this? Maybe a sermon teaching this? That grace is a license to sin?
Preacher4truth posted names of popular teachers of that doctrine.

You make grace a license to sin when you say grace allows you to go back to your old life of sin in unbelief and remain saved.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I’m not certain if the made alters for sacrifices or not. What I do know is Daniel is a type of tribulation saint. Because of the cross, the sacrificial system has ceased as in the days of Daniel. One must have faith in the Lord and refuse to worship the image.
1. there was no temple. So we know there were no sacrifices
2. You stated it was required or else no forgiveness
3. As such, You just condemned every jew living at that time, Including Daniel and Jeremiah and others.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Preacher4truth posted names of popular teachers of that doctrine.

You make grace a license to sin when you say grace allows you can go back to your old life of sin in unbelief and you are still saved.
No license to sin. Paul addresses those like you and states God forbid.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Faith alone? Yes. No works. Dead meaning alone. In your theology, a man cannot be saved on His death bed for He has no works to justify him.

How many works justifies a man? What kind of works justifies a man? Feeding the poor? Clothing the needy? I’m justified by the faith of Christ. He’s done all the works. He is the just and justifier to them that believe.
Again

CAN A DEAD FAITH (a faith that has no life) SAVE ANYONE

Why can't you just answer a question? And here you go attacking me and thinking that will help you?

I never stated a man who has faith in his deathbed is not saved.. So you just bore false witness..
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
At least admit that James is not addressing the body of Christ? At least admit the book of James is addressing the nation of Israel, saved or lost.
No I will not. Because James was addressing saved born again Jews. who were part of the body of Christ. Because they were saved AFTER Jesus death.

Not OT jews who were living some fantasy works based system.

In fact. what the issue was was that many of them heard of this new grace thing, and went 180 degrees out and went from believing in law. to thinking they could just have grace and live however they wanted and they were saved.

James was addressing THESE people in his remarks in Chapter 2. Not those who had true living saving faith
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
1. there was no temple. So we know there were no sacrifices
2. You stated it was required or else no forgiveness
3. As such, You just condemned every jew living at that time, Including Daniel and Jeremiah and others.
Please read all the way down. The way I see it, no temple, no sacrifice required. But the law required obedience for the Jews. If the Jews have no temple, then no sacrifice required but obedience to God is required.

Ezekiel 14
3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him by myself:
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Now, check this out...

Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

The key words in the verses are “they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness.” It is clear that they were saved by living righteous. They were not saved by the righteousness of God like Church Age Saints.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
No I will not. Because James was addressing saved born again Jews. who were part of the body of Christ. Because they were saved AFTER Jesus death.
There you go. Finally, your definition of “twelve tribes” is saved Jews in the body of Christ. This commentary view contradicts every other usage in scripture. The term is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel, every time. No exceptions.

It is also obvious that at least part of James’ audience had not received the word and their souls were not saved.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James is commanded his hearers to stop what they’re doing and receive the word of God to save their souls.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Please read all the way down. The way I see it, no temple, no sacrifice required. But the law required obedience for the Jews. If the Jews have no temple, then no sacrifice required but obedience to God is required.

Ezekiel 14
3 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
4 Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the Lord will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
5 That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
7 For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the Lord will answer him by myself:
8 And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Now, check this out...

Ezekiel 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.

20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

The key words in the verses are “they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness.” It is clear that they were saved by living righteous. They were not saved by the righteousness of God like Church Age Saints.
Soo all those things you quoted earlier about the law wa sprety much meaningless right?

Yeah, Thats what I thought

You contradict yourself
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
There you go. Finally, your definition of “twelve tribes” is saved Jews in the body of Christ. This commentary view contradicts every other usage in scripture. The term is always a reference to the whole nation of Israel, every time. No exceptions.

It is also obvious that at least part of James’ audience had not received the word and their souls were not saved.

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

James is commanded his hearers to stop what they’re doing and receive the word of God to save their souls.
Well thats your opinion.

But your the only one I know of you thinks it

either way

No one who has DEAD faith is saved. Jewish or not
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Soo all those things you quoted earlier about the law wa sprety much meaningless right?

Yeah, Thats what I thought

You contradict yourself
Nope, under the law, sacrifices forgave sins. I posted many references. I can post more if you want? Do you deny these scriptures? Ezekiel shows us obedience required when there is no temple.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
3,683
113
Well thats your opinion.

But your the only one I know of you thinks it

either way

No one who has DEAD faith is saved. Jewish or not
Except the man in 1 Corinthians 3.

Are you saying your works justifies you? At what point, how many works do you have to perform to bring justification?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
That's not my argument.
That's what the new osas teaches.

Romans 3:8: “And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)

Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.”