Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

14meatcc

Active member
Feb 17, 2020
154
86
28
San Diego
Didn't you read my post?
How does someone shipwreck a faith they never had?
You have to board that ship before you can wreck it.
Is it possible they shipwreck the possibility of obtaining the faith through their blasphemy?
I feel for you. Can you possess true saving faith and blaspheme God?
The moment you put any effort upon your own decision and will, you automatically open the door for self righteousness and make a claim that God's plan of redemption was incomplete or not good enough without your involvement in some way or manner.
Be careful of the leaven of the pharasies.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
Nope. It says they are kept by the power of God through faith.
Being shielded and kept are two different things.,

Understand?

Nope didn't say I was out of here, just stepping back but still checking in.

Pleased to know you read my posts.
Great to see you, brother! 😎
 

14meatcc

Active member
Feb 17, 2020
154
86
28
San Diego
It is a gift of God.
And the Bible says I am to hold on to it, not cast it off.
But ChristianChat people keep telling me that's me trying to save myself and adding me to Christ's glory.
Can you find it in your being to not believe and turn from Christ? If that is a possibility I will pray for you
 

14meatcc

Active member
Feb 17, 2020
154
86
28
San Diego
That's me continuing to believe in the One who sustains my salvation.
Since when is that a works gospel?
I missed the memo that says that somewhere between now and the 1990's, I guess.



I understand me perfectly.o_O

I'm only sustaining my own salvation in the sense that I'm not casting off the faith that secures God's sustaining power for salvation.

I did not know 'having faith is somehow me working to be saved.
I'm pretty sure Paul did not say 'having faith' is works.
But if I'm wrong about that I want you to post the chapter and verse that says it is.
Why do you believe the word of God?
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Page? I'm not sure the treatise has standardized pages, but it's in there. And it's just one of a long list of similar vitriol. How did you read it?
I googled the title and looked for a PDF link. Even Cont F the page but nothing like that came up.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Small wonder a works to earn, and or maintain Salvation guy, doesn't see THIS as hateful writings against Jewish people:

On the Jews and Their Lies[edit]
Main article: On the Jews and Their Lies
In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[14] They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine."[15] The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."[16] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[17] afforded no legal protection,[18] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[19] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".[20] Luther claims that Jewish history was "assailed by much heresy", and that Christ swept away the Jewish heresy and goes on to do so, "as it still does daily before our eyes." He stigmatizes Jewish Prayer as being "blasphemous" and a lie, and vilifies Jews in general as being spiritually "blind" and "surely possessed by all devils." Luther has a special spiritual problem with Jewish circumcision.[21][self-published source?][22] The full context in which Martin Luther advocated that Jews be slain in On the Jews and Their Lies is as follows in Luther's own words:
There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses - namely, that God has struck [the Jews] with 'madness and blindness and confusion of mind' [Deuteronomy 28:28]. So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them.[23]
You've obviously never read On The Jews And Their Lies - in it, Luther does not wish for any synagogues to be burned down or any persecution to come upon Jewish people. If you find it, please let me know on what page so I can check it out.

Luther's book is an ACCURATE assessment of the practices, beliefs, and sentiments of the Jewish people. They above all others need our prayers, but sadly, they have found in America many Christians who have drunk the Zionist koolaid and have become enablers which encourage them to continue in their rebellion against my Jesus. To those people who occupy what is a tiny speck of what was once the great expansive border of the land of ancient Israel, these Christians are nothing more than stupid Goyim and useful idiots good for nothing but exploitation and murder. Pray for them!
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
I just read On The Jews And Their Lies and his criticism is well founded. If not, please point to where Luther is wrong, if you are able. He expresses hatred and disgust for their BELIEFS and their ATTITUDE toward the rest of the non-Jew world, which is well deserved. His vitriol is directed toward their inexplicable arrogance, wickedness, and stubbornness. If Luther had truly hated Jews, what a stupid fool he would have been to spend so much time evangelizing them.

A true hater of Jews would sit back with a bag of popcorn and with a smile of satisfaction watch them head down the road to perdition as fast as their legs could carry them. In this book, Luther never breathes one word of a desire to see them persecuted because he knows God has commanded to "love thy enemies".
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
I think his heart is in the right place in that he honors Jesus, but sadly he has things twisted. He puts too much “self” into salvation.
They honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

A false gospel that devalues Jesus, lifts self, denies the power and promises of Christ in NO way, shape or form HONORS Jesus.....and according to the gospel, Jesus, Paul, Jeremiah and the bible his HEART is still deceitfully wicked and no where near being in the right place.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
DON'T YOU KNOW, THE SEVEN FEASTS OF ISRAEL ARE PICTURE PROPHESIES OF JESUS CHRIST, AND CHRIST WILL HAVE FULFILLED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE THEM.
Uh......I think that is EXACTLY what I just said :)

1) The Passover: Christ's the Lamb Slain
2) Unleavened Bread: Christ's body which saw no corruption
3) FirstFruits: Christ the "Firstfruits of the Resurrection"
4) Pentecost: Christ pours out the oil, lights the Candlestick and commences High Priestly ministry - Holy Spirit (oil) poured out into church

"Unto 2,300 days then shall the (heavenly) Sanctuary be cleansed." The 70 Weeks are "determined" (cut off) from the 2,300 Days, which means the 2,300 Days begin the same time the 70 Weeks do: 457 B.C., when Artaxerxes' decree to "restore and build Jerusalem" was given. 2,300 Days brings us to the 19th century.

5) Feast of Trumpets: heralds of the Day of Atonement "cleansing of the Sanctuary" and the soon return of Christ: Inexplicably, the Lisbon Earthquake of 1755, the Dark Day and Blood Moon night of 1780, and the Leonid Meteor shower of falling stars in 1833 (Native Americans called it the "Winter of the Plenty Stars") were astonishing, unprecedented, and as said inexplicable celestial events that were the fulfillment of prophecy and caused what became "The Great Religious Awakening" when many people turned to studying prophecy...and do you know what they discovered? That Christ would NOT RETURN AFTER the "millennium of peace" that so many churches, seminaries, and Bible colleges were teaching at the time - but that He was SOON to return. The 2,300 days (years) prophecy was fulfilled and Christ entered into the Most Holy Place to begin His final phase of His heavenly ministry, which the Jews called the "day of Judgment" - the INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT - which is to precede the Second Coming, just as the same investigative judgment took place before the High Priest exited the temple and presented himself to a rejoicing crowd of the faithful. It was the end of the ritual year, when the Jews would Tabernacle with each other and their God.

7) Tabernacles: Christ comes to take us home and "so shall we ever be with the Lord".
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Dude I am sick of your slander.

OSAS teaches no such thing, Stop listing to your pastor or whoever taught you these false truths, and start listening to people who actually hold to the faith that your attacking
Slander is the act of demeaning a person. In your emotionalism, you confuse that with "criticism of a false doctrine" which is what I do when I say OSAS is a false idea which allows its adherents to keep on committing capital crime without fear of capital punishment.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
You slander people with such as the above. OSAS represents one thing: Accepting Christ Jesus as Our Lord and Savior and by that act we receive the gift of God through the Blood of Jesus which gives us eternal salvation and the Seal of the Holy Spirit. You add words to what we believe and twist them to suit your agenda. No where does any believer in the one and only act of eternal salvation believe the words you say. BTW, do you ever examine your own mind and heart? You know like: Love thy neighbor as thyself, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, Judge not, least you be judged.
SMH. It's called "demonstrating absurdity by being absurd". I don't really think you OSAS people think we're granted divine status, but I think the point is well made, and yet because you know it's true - that OSAS allows us to be in two places at once, the one place being safely in God's hands and the other place being separated as "pruned branches disconnected from the Vine" - you get annoyed by it.

And well you should. That is generally what happens when one's cherished view is challenged and shown to be bankrupt of virtue...our carnal feathers get ruffled. Because OSAS is so ridiculous in it's claim that the Christian can occupy both places at once, when we all know that we're either abiding in Jesus or in rebellion against Him. "He that is not with Me is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth abroad."
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
The moment you put any effort upon your own decision and will, you automatically open the door for self righteousness and make a claim that God's plan of redemption was incomplete or not good enough without your involvement in some way or manner.
Chapter and verse please.
Show me where scripture says my decision to trust in Christ is in any way a works gospel.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
More blathering. Come on man, I thought you were genuine with regards to understanding we are saved by grace through faith.
Well, what about you? You saw me plainly post about gaining victory "...in Christ's power", but you STILL leveled an accusation of works salvation. How can it be "works salvation" if Christ is the One granting us - we who are completely helpless to resist sin - power to do right?

Besides, the "Omnipresence" thing is a totally legit criticism. OSAS claims a man can remain safely in the palm of God's hand while disconnecting himself from the Vine to head over to the next vineyard and attach himself to Satan's Holly wood tree.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
Deny it all you want, but anyone who fails to abide in Christ becomes eternally lost..unless you believe that salvation grants us Omnipresence, where we can remain safely in the hand of Jesus while simultaneously heading down Rebellion Road as fast as our legs can carry us.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Is it possible they shipwreck the possibility of obtaining the faith through their blasphemy?
Maybe, but that's not what 1 Timothy 1:19 says.

I really just need you to show me the verses that say if I'm doing any of these...

"stand firm in the faith - 1 Corinthians 16:13

"building yourselves up in your most holy faith" - Jude 1:20

"holding on to faith" - 1 Timothy 1:19

"hold firmly to the faith we profess" - Hebrews 4:14

"Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess" - Hebrews 10:23


"And now, dear children, continue in him" - 1 John 2:28

"As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you." - 1 John 2:24

that's me trying to save and keep myself by works, and adding the self righteousness of 'me' to Christ's glory in salvation.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,956
13,615
113
I just read On The Jews And Their Lies and his criticism is well founded. If not, please point to where Luther is wrong, if you are able. He expresses hatred and disgust for their BELIEFS and their ATTITUDE toward the rest of the non-Jew world, which is well deserved. His vitriol is directed toward their inexplicable arrogance, wickedness, and stubbornness. If Luther had truly hated Jews, what a stupid fool he would have been to spend so much time evangelizing them.

A true hater of Jews would sit back with a bag of popcorn and with a smile of satisfaction watch them head down the road to perdition as fast as their legs could carry them. In this book, Luther never breathes one word of a desire to see them persecuted because he knows God has commanded to "love thy enemies".
i just wanted whoever else is talking about Luther & this book to see the link so they can read it too :)

this isn't, of course, the only things Luther said or wrote about the Jews. he's historically been criticized as becoming more and more antisemitic as he grew older, encouraging that they be thrown out of Europe. but this essay represents the basis of his thoughts toward them, as he put it in his own words, at a certain point in his life. it's a good starting point to look into the topic IMO