Not By Works
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Follow me as I follow Christ. 1. Cor 11:1 Don’t trouble me with your philosophical paradigm. Talk Bible. And my focus is on what the Bible says about self deception. I asked if a person is living in deliberate sin, is it possible they were never saved, and people flew into a tizzy. Interesting.
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If you had
If you had put on your thinking hat, you would have realized that some opponents of NOSAS here have accused OSAS of using grace as a license to sin. One possible answer to that is if a person is using grace as a license to sin, it is possible they were never saved. Nothing controversial. The alternative would be that everyone who uses grace as a license to sin is definitely saved, and I know you wouldn't say that. Only a madman would say that.
Sometimes your arguments are self defeating. As evidenced by your objection to me saying "if one sins licentiously, it is possible, they were never saved." Simple and self evident, to most anyways.
If you had put on your thinking hat, you would have realized that some opponents of NOSAS here have accused OSAS of using grace as a license to sin. One possible answer to that is if a person is using grace as a license to sin, it is possible they were never saved. Nothing controversial. The alternative would be that everyone who uses grace as a license to sin is definitely saved, and I know you wouldn't say that. Only a madman would say that.
Sometimes your arguments are self defeating. As evidenced by your objection to me saying "if one sins licentiously, it is possible, they were never saved." Simple and self evident, to most anyways.
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E
There is one problem
while your motive is ok, your way to go about it is flawed
they love to use senerio us or hypotheticals like you do
what if...
they use the same sins you used, immorality, sexual sin, etc.
their hypotheticals are flawed. Because it does not account for the fact that ever sin in Gods eyes has the penalty of death, and in reality, they are no better than the sinners they are judging, the fact they have not come to this conclusion just proves they have not yet fully repented, they still think they have some good in them, or they would never judge certain people (onlyGod can judge)
in what you did, you supported them, and basically gave them more ammunition. Because you made the same mistake they did. Using a hypothetical that does not support your cause. .
while your motive is ok, your way to go about it is flawed
they love to use senerio us or hypotheticals like you do
what if...
they use the same sins you used, immorality, sexual sin, etc.
their hypotheticals are flawed. Because it does not account for the fact that ever sin in Gods eyes has the penalty of death, and in reality, they are no better than the sinners they are judging, the fact they have not come to this conclusion just proves they have not yet fully repented, they still think they have some good in them, or they would never judge certain people (onlyGod can judge)
in what you did, you supported them, and basically gave them more ammunition. Because you made the same mistake they did. Using a hypothetical that does not support your cause. .
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See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In Him you were also circumcised, in the removal of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He delivered us from all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Col.2:8-15
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit and not by the letter; such a man's praise is not from men but from God. Rom.2:28,29
If our hearts are uncircumcised, we have broken the covenant.
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In Him you were also circumcised, in the removal of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism and raised with Him through your faith in the power of God, who raised Him from the dead.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He delivered us from all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; He took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Col.2:8-15
For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, neither is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit and not by the letter; such a man's praise is not from men but from God. Rom.2:28,29
If our hearts are uncircumcised, we have broken the covenant.
E
I am not afraid of the truth
and I agree
but I also know many we think are saved because they appeqr morallyngood are lost, and many think are not saved because of sin issues are saved.
we are best not to play God, because we can not see all things
your hypothetical did not show any truth, it fed the lawyers...good going.
and I agree
but I also know many we think are saved because they appeqr morallyngood are lost, and many think are not saved because of sin issues are saved.
we are best not to play God, because we can not see all things
your hypothetical did not show any truth, it fed the lawyers...good going.
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You are wrong, again.
Many here including dcon have spoken hundreds of times about this issue but your "abortion" of a story or example paired with your desperation to make others appear "defensive" while you change the answers of others and double speak made everything you say so weak and powerless the original point no longer matters.
It had been discussed when pretty much every new but honest member joins who is less focused on Christ and more focused on self when they seek assurance.... They see "not by works" and get offended as if scriptures don't clearly explain this.
This thread is meant to give God ALL the glory for salvation, and within it everyone who knows the truth including who you quoted also knows there are tares among the wheat.🙄
You seem to have a hidden agenda when I look at your posts as a whole.
Every person you have been choosing to argue with understands this truth. If you want less push back be more open and honest.
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This is from 2018 v
yaaaaa
one of the most common ridiculous arguments against Gods promise of eternal security to all who believe is
"If you believe in eternal security you believe you can sin all you want"
that completely ignores the new God given heart and quickened spirit... it is a very worldly way to think to suggest such a thing
a saved born again believer is now a new creature
an adopted son/daughter of God
when they act according to the flesh that doesnt register "im doing what i want and getting away with it"
it registers as "failure"
and God chastens His own children
we want to walk according to the spirit and NOT the flesh at ALL points
but when we do sin
it is a failure
not "what we want"
thank you so much Jesus for being my advocate
i know i have no power to save myself
one of the most common ridiculous arguments against Gods promise of eternal security to all who believe is
"If you believe in eternal security you believe you can sin all you want"
that completely ignores the new God given heart and quickened spirit... it is a very worldly way to think to suggest such a thing
a saved born again believer is now a new creature
an adopted son/daughter of God
when they act according to the flesh that doesnt register "im doing what i want and getting away with it"
it registers as "failure"
and God chastens His own children
we want to walk according to the spirit and NOT the flesh at ALL points
but when we do sin
it is a failure
not "what we want"
thank you so much Jesus for being my advocate
i know i have no power to save myself
This was not the first or last time it was discussed here. (this thread alone, by me alone)
You claim others don't see the lost like to claim those who trust in Christs promises have a license to sin and accuse them of needing thinking caps... but the people you are pointing your finger at have been explaining this to those who hate the truth for years.
I could quote me speaking of this issue maybe on two dozen separate occasions.... I have a fraction of the posts the person you're falsely accusing between all my times joining CC.
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You are wrong, again.
Many here including dcon have spoken hundreds of times about this issue but your "abortion" of a storyQUOTE]
Your abortion of a question you asked me earler was also addressed by me more than once.
I didn't have to do anything to make people defensive. They did that well on their own. Over a simple point like "not everyone who professes to be saved is saved, but those who are saved are eternally secure." What a controversial point!
[QUOTE
while you change the answers ofYo
Many here including dcon have spoken hundreds of times about this issue but your "abortion" of a storyQUOTE]
Your abortion of a question you asked me earler was also addressed by me more than once.
I didn't have to do anything to make people defensive. They did that well on their own. Over a simple point like "not everyone who professes to be saved is saved, but those who are saved are eternally secure." What a controversial point!
[QUOTE
while you change the answers ofYo
the scriptures do teach "not by works". They also instruct us to examine ourselves if we are in sin. But you do not teach the whole council of God. I suspected it before I asked the question, and you confirmed it.
what I said takes no glory from God, any more than the First Epistle of John takes glory from God, or Paul saying "examine yourself if you are in the faith" takes glory from God, or "make your calling and election sure" takes glory from God, or "strive to enter at the straight gate takes glory from God, or Do not err, my beloved brethren" takes glory from God, or "we know we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren" takes glory from God, or " if we mortify the deads of the flesh we will live" takes glory from God, or "by this we know we are the children of God takes glory from God.
None of this takes glory from God. You are flailing at the air, making false statements
Full council of God, not just the parts we like, thank you.
Personal attacks based on phantoms in your mind.
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Personal attacks based on phantoms in your mind.
Lol
Right.
We will see when we stand before God who was being honest here.
You have been objectively wrong about false accusations on this page alone.
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And there are 6,207 pages of posts talking about "not of works".
Did I? That's news to me...
How many times has it been stated here that "not everyone who thinks their saved is saved?" I haven't seen it. Oh but we dare not say that lest we ruffle feathers.
You're not even on the same issue I am on. You think I'm talking about "Grace is not a licence to sin". But actually you are ignoring that my question deals with that accusation, and I have not seen the answer "not everyone who thinks they're saved is saved" in response to that. If you said that two dozen occasions, I apologize. If not, you're not even in the same ballpark.
Did I? That's news to me...
How many times has it been stated here that "not everyone who thinks their saved is saved?" I haven't seen it. Oh but we dare not say that lest we ruffle feathers.
You're not even on the same issue I am on. You think I'm talking about "Grace is not a licence to sin". But actually you are ignoring that my question deals with that accusation, and I have not seen the answer "not everyone who thinks they're saved is saved" in response to that. If you said that two dozen occasions, I apologize. If not, you're not even in the same ballpark.