Not By Works

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Nov 24, 2019
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It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!
New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
King James Bible
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
We did not choose Him but He chose us, not based on deeds we had done. He saved us by the washing and regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. He has made us to become His servants now by His choice.

Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns. I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

But suppose the servant says to himself, "My master is taking a long time in coming", and he then begins to beat the menservants and maidservants and to eat and drink and get drunk. The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not award of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked. Luke 12:42-48

He knows our deeds and He has told us whom we should fear. To him who overcomes, He will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God, Rev.2:7b. Everyone who hears the words of the Master and puts them into practice, is like the is like the wise man who built his house on the rock, Mt.7:24 That is the house that will not fall.

It's a life saver to be in the Word of God without doctrinal prejudice - to just be a disciple and drink from the water He gives us - perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2Cor.7:1 I haven't broken the tape yet. Run in such a way as to get the prize (1Cor.9:24b) for not everyone who says to Him "Lord, Lord" on that day will enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Mt.7:21w/1Cor.12:3). A disciple lets Him be the Judge.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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I should not be typing this so late at night, I make more typos that way. Here is the a video about them:

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IT IS NOT OF GOD!
Not of God indeed! :eek: Reminds me of something I read on the internet about how to know you're in a bad church. One of the answers was: Worship services are B.Y.O.S. -- "Bring Your Own Snake."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yes, it is an extreme backlash against Calvinism that causes alarms to go off in their heads anytime they hear about “God drawing”, “God keeping”, or God electing, which are not unique to Calvinism, but are soundly biblical, and should be held by all biblical Christians.

I know plenty of Wesleyans and free willers that agree with God drawing and keeping unto salvation, but those rabidly anti Calvinist go to the opposite extreme and deny these
i think one aspect is double predestination based on lack of free will, and to be honest, I despise this aspect of calvinistic thinking, a term called fatalism,

then of course they hate what they term “free grace” and the fact again, free will issue with not being able to walk away.

so sadly, since they think the term OSAS came from calvinistic belief (I have no idea if it did or not, I always called it eternal security, not osas, based on the fact we have eternal life and the seal of the spirit) they link osas with calvin, and in response attack it like they do calvinism. Thus they are unable to listen or hear a thing anyone says.because they have their “calvinist” blinders on,
 
Nov 24, 2019
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Hi DW, in the same passage addressing the same believers Paul writes as follows:

1 Corinthians 15
34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

Think about that. Think about how much is contained in such a short verse that expounds so much light on what we have been endlessly debating for years.

>Written to the church
>telling them to awake to righteousness (Some here would claim they are already righteously settled, so why would they now have to awake to righteousness?)
>Do not sin (Some here would say sin no longer exists. Some would say "DO NOT SIN" means works salvationism). Yet Paul writes to the church "Do Not Sin".
>Paul equates those who don't understand these matters as "Not having the knowledge of God". How many here argue and kick against these very matters. Yet Paul writes that these don't have knowledge of God. I can, based on my observations and debates here, fully understand what Paul is pointing out to the church. I mean it not as an arrogant standpoint at all. Its actually exasperation that the body of believers cannot see this. It breaks my heart.
>Paul rounds off with "I speak this to your shame". Yes - it is shameful that we have this doctrine in amongst the believers. Ignorance as to the potential dangers lurking at the door. Its the same warning God gave to Cain in Genesis 4 " 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is [d]for you, but you should rule over it.

We have been given the EQUIPPING to RULE OVER IT. He is the Holy Spirit of Grace. You no longer need to present your body as an instrument of unrighteousness. Paul wasn't wallowing in the mire once he received the life in the Spirit. Neither do you have to. You can RULE OVER IT.
Amen! We don't have to be a people with a form of godliness but deny it's power to change people radically.
"Wisdom is vindicated (shown to be true and divine) by all her children [by their life, character and deeds]." Luke 7:35 Amplified
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Amen! We don't have to be a people with a form of godliness but deny it's power to change people radically.
"Wisdom is vindicated (shown to be true and divine) by all her children [by their life, character and deeds]." Luke 7:35 Amplified

no one here is denying that when a person comes to Christ, they will change for the better.

but, that is a result of salvation, not a cause or a maintainer. that is where you legalists get it so wrong.

the only requirement for salvation is belief and trust in Jesus. nothing else.
 
Nov 24, 2019
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no one here is denying that when a person comes to Christ, they will change for the better.

but, that is a result of salvation, not a cause or a maintainer. that is where you legalists get it so wrong.

the only requirement for salvation is belief and trust in Jesus. nothing else.
I’m not a legalist. True faith and trust in Jesus is obedience to the Word of God.

2 billion claim to believe in Jesus. However, He wondered aloud during the days of His earthly ministry, “When the Son of man comes will He find faith in earth?”
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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I’m not a legalist. True faith and trust in Jesus is obedience to the Word of God.

2 billion claim to believe in Jesus. However, He wondered aloud during the days of His earthly ministry, “When the Son of man comes will He find faith in earth?”
did you read what I just said??

I said " faith and trust in Christ".

you legalists spin and twist everything into self..

not of yourselves, a gift of God.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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Do you think this happens automatically? Knowing Scripture more? Discipleship?

honestly, I think it looks different for everyone on the outside, but the inner change of heart will take place on the inside, if one truly comes to Christ.

however, if one does not grow the new faith, it will not translate into a strong, saving faith. it will just be a one-time emotional experience that will fade.......

Bible reading and a prayer life are a must to have a strong faith...
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Do you think a new born Christian will automatically serve the Lord all their life with no Scripture, discipleship, etc..?
As gb9 says. Some people grow in the Lord, while others fade away, but that is not to say they were never saved in the first place. We do need to share fellowship, a fire needs to be kept burning and so do we.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I know that. But all once saved always saved doctrines are rooted in what Calvin taught.

Love him, or hate him, or just take what you like about him, his misunderstanding of election is probably the main reason we have a church that so whole heatedly embraces the notion that you can not lose your salvation. Because, obviously, if his understanding of 'election' is true and that you really are a believer because God created you to be one and there's nothing you or satan can do about that, then that does indeed have to mean you would not be able to lose what God has predetermined ahead of time that you will be created to be. But, as we can see from the scriptures themselves, saved people really do fall away into the indeterminate state of whether or not they will come back to faith, and drastic measures are commanded to try to get the wayward believer to come back to faith and repentance so he can be saved when Jesus comes back, because he's not going to be if he remains in the condition he is in.
Simply put? "Election", is something one is "born from the womb" AS! And NOT what one becomes upon confessing Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. Although, "election" can be earned during one's life here in flesh. Dependant on one's capacity in "engaging in spiritual warfare!" (pretty simple, eh? ;))
The reason for the adamant and relentless hatred against "election", and or "calvinism?", And, something which OSAS'ers, as well as every other denomination, INCLUDING "CALVINISM" Is, or should be stated as such:
ALL "elect", ARE, or shall BECOME believers and confessors of Jesus Christ!
But?
Not ALL believers and confessors of Jesus Christ, are "elect!"


In a "wider" sense? Election, is God's way of "keeping the flow" going/growing in Faith to Himself, in and through Jesus Christ during these last days.
This is the way it's always been through all the earth/heaven ages, prior? Save for Jesus Christ of Nazareth, during this "current generation."

Add to this mix, the prince of this world? And, what he does? As he has done ever since the "attempted overthrow", in a prior age? And what he did in the "garden of Eden incident?"

And, you'll have the "Readers Digest" version of what God the "Father/Creator", of ALL "ages", and the universe, was/is wanting from His children!

Not only children who will love Him! But, children who will war with Him! Against "the dragon", and its minions!

And, this is where the difference/s between the elect, and the believer are!

The "elect" are proven warriors from a previous period of time, or "everlasting." One COULD even "liken" them to Michael's angels:
Revelation 12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

The only difference being, that the "elect" are in flesh bodies.

....and then, there's the whole "predestination" thang! Which, simply put, is just the "when and where", the "how many, and how strong" of elect God places in what place/s of this heaven/earth age "timeline", in His "keeping on keeping on", of "the FAITH!"

If you be a thinkin' there's not a whole lotta differences between that which "the serpent" (Adam and Eve) done, what the "Pharoah" (Moses) did, what Herod (Jesus) did, and what "abortions" are doing?
You'd be a thinkin' correctly!


The "adversary" ALWAYS tryin' to get in "God's Business", and screw things up! And? ALWAYS failing!
 
Nov 16, 2019
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not of yourselves, a gift of God.
The problem is this is taught within the confines of a fatalistic theology.
And, taught to the exclusion of what really matters.
In fact, using that fatalistic theology to justify excluding what really matters.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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No, true faith and trust in Jesus is only believing in correct doctrines and teachings about God........like once saved always saved. ;)
Believing correct doctrines matters or does not matter depending on the severity of it. I have been active on the Rapture threads and I believe that is a non-salvation issue, does not matter which way you believe about the Rapture when it comes to salvation.

But certain doctrines need to be believed or no salvation is there. Such as believing Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, if anyone claims to be a Christian and denies that they are walking in the spirit of antichrist and are not saved at all but are antichrists.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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We feed a fire with coal and sticks, and we need to feed our faith from the Word.

This 5-minute rule needs changing.