Not By Works

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 8v12
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

>Rom 8v12 shows he is dealing with the brethren of believers (the church and not those outside),
>Rom 8v12 shows that these believer have a choice. The possibility of living according to the flesh exists.
>If you by the Spirit put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live. Notice the "You" in there. It is a choice "You" make.
>What was not possible with the old unregenerated man is now possible because he/she has the power of the Holy Spirit living inside of them. The new seed of the Spirit was implanted upon conversion. The Spirit begins to lead you. YOU still have a choice in the matter.
>You have a part to play in sanctification.

Are you ever going to respond to what Jesus said in John 6? About how whoever believes in him will never hunger or thirst, live forever, never die, has eternal life and will be risen on the last day? Not to mention the assurance that as long as Jesus lives, they will live also?

How many times do I need to ask you?

 

[Discern]

But Hebrews 3:6 is talking about those who are Christ’s house.

I don’t want to continue going over the same points. I am in the process of reading Hebrews again, and if my mind is changed by it, I will let you all know

 

[Discern]

What does that mean?

In answer to this question, what I meant by that statement is that all believers are in Christ’s house. There are not some in and some out. All believers are in his house. Then see Hebrews 3:6.

I am not putting words in your mouth. I am just saying that Hebrews 3:6 is talking about believers.

I know the original issue was 3:14, but Hebrews 3:6 says basically the same thing, in my opinion at least

But I am not trying to challenge you or anything like that. Just differ slightly in my perspective

 

[Hevosmies]

Roman 8 v9-11 shows the Part that the Holy Spirit brings to the equation. The Victory. God dwelling in us. This is not only the promise of victory, but the actual indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. We are now no longer just Soul and Flesh. We are now Spirit, Soul and Flesh. Only those who are born again have their Spirit alive. An unregenerated man has not the spirit to lead him. His soul is dominated by his fleshly desires. Now, we have those who are Christ's. The indwelling Spirit who gives life to your mortal bodies. The regenerated man now has something the unregenerated man doesnt. The hope of victory over the Flesh.

Now the Soul is left with a choice (Free Will). Do I live according to the Flesh or According to the Spirit (Romans 8v12-13). Only those who live according to the Spirit are called the Sons of God (Romans 8v14).

John 8v34-36 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Aiight but what shall you do if I say: I DONT BELIEVE in libertarian free will. What now? Games over! Thats what trips a lot of folks up, its always that free will gimmick.

Choosing, choose, make a choice, says NOTHING about our ability to do so or lack of our ability to do so. It also dont tell us WHY we choose what we do and WHAT causes us to choose the way we do. We got to look at the rest of the Bible for that.

BUT HEY: I know thats not popular in this neighborhood so I wont say any more about that.

 

[gb9]

In answer to this question, what I meant by that statement is that all believers are in Christ’s house. There are not some in and some out. All believers are in his house. Then see Hebrews 3:6.

I am not putting words in your mouth. I am just saying that Hebrews 3:6 is talking about believers.

I know the original issue was 3:14, but Hebrews 3:6 says basically the same thing, in my opinion at least

But I am not trying to challenge you or anything like that. Just differ slightly in my perspective

rule of thumb- do not isolate verses and build individual theology around them.

 

[Discern]

rule of thumb- do not isolate verses and build individual theology around them.

Who posted this? Oh, the guy who said the word partaker which is used in Hebrews 3:14 is legalistic.

I didn't isolate anything. The way I interpret Hebrews 3:6 and 3:14 is in agreement with Hebrews 1:1-3:5 and Hebrews 3:6- to the end of chapter four. As well as the rest of the book.

see Hebrews 4:1-3, which explains that the whole issue is if the gospel is received with faith to begin with.

And lastly, are all believers God's house, or only some? (Hebrews 3:6)

 

[Discern]

Of course, you don't agree with me, because you are not OSAS. Some OSAS will agree with what I am saying, but no one who is NOSAS would ever agree with what I am saying.

 

[mailmandan]

Now the Soul is left with a choice (Free Will). Do I live according to the Flesh or According to the Spirit (Romans 8v12-13). Only those who live according to the Spirit are called the Sons of God (Romans 8v14).

There are distinctively two groups in Romans 8. The present tense is used to denote lifestyles. Those consistently walking according to the flesh in verse 5 are linked to "being in the flesh" in verse 8. And those who "walk according to the Spirit" in verse 5 are linked to "those who are no longer in the flesh" in verse 9.

Kenneth Wuest explains this section of Romans 8:13 - "Assuming that a person lives habitually under the dominion of the evil nature, Paul says, that person is about to be dying. The verb is present in tense, and therefore durative in meaning, indicating habitual action. The individual who lives habitually under the dominion of the evil nature is an unsaved person. That one is on the way to final death in the Lake of Fire. But the person who by the Holy Spirit habitually puts to death the deeds of the body, will live. That person is a saved person.

Living (2198) (zao) in the present tense means that one is not just behaving for a moment under the "spell" of the old evil nature but that this person is behaving continually, habitually having their life dominated and directed by the evil nature, the flesh.

According to the flesh (kata sarx) as explained earlier conveys the idea of one placing themselves down and therefore under the dominion or control of the evil flesh nature. Not a good position to be in spiritually speaking!

If a professing (not necessarily possessing) "Christian" habitually lives in sin and shows no concern for repentance, forgiveness, worship, or fellowship with other believers, he proves that he claims the name of Christ in vain. Many false Christians in the church work hard at keeping their lives pure in appearance, because other people think more highly of them for it and because they feel prouder of themselves when they act morally and benevolently than when they do not.

https://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_812-13

 

[Lightskin]

yes you said it like honestly who has ever said we should just disobey God's word? never did i see anyone say it.

me coming from works salvation background understand what they mean. they say it because when you say i was backslid, if they see someone doing something its automatically salvation lost. but you say no that person may be just backslid and i will rebuke him maybe he will come back to Lord and repent. but if you teach he might still be saved, thats when you are saying its ok to be disobedient according to these guys.

what i see as big issue for both NOSAS and OSAS sides is this: we simply cant know other people's hearts. we cant tell for sure ok that is saved this isnt saved. God looks at the heart man looks on appearance, we can only look at their testimony, beliefs and how they conduct their life. if that is ok we would all conclude ok its saved man. if someone never wants to repent, doesnt even acknowledge they are sinning if they do something wrong, we would all conclude ok its a lost man.

can we all agree with what i said? i think it makes a lot of sense to toot my own horn.

I find it quite interesting that you responded to my post and not one of the finger pointing worker bees. Their silence is deafening. Thanks as always dear brother for sharing as you do.

 

[Lightskin]

The "difference" between Priests and sheep, is like the difference from a "seed" that is saved and then the falsely assuming that of all future "growth", if any, is "automatically" saved as well. Whereas, Priests on the other hand, know the "seed" is saved, but not assuming of the "future growth" is. Is called "perpetual obligation"(or perpetual cultivation) to the "Great Commandment/s.

Translation: Jesus isn’t good enough to save you. Blah blah blah...

 

[blue_ladybug]

Translation: Jesus isn’t good enough to save you. Blah blah blah...

Even kitty says blah blah blah.. lol

 

[Lightskin]

Even kitty says blah blah blah.. lol
View attachment 208687

You just made my day, Blue. 😆❤️

 

[blue_ladybug]

You just made my day, Blue. 😆❤️

 

[Chris1975]

There are distinctively two groups in Romans 8. The present tense is used to denote lifestyles. Those consistently walking according to the flesh in verse 5 are linked to "being in the flesh" in verse 8. And those who "walk according to the Spirit" in verse 5 are linked to "those who are no longer in the flesh" in verse 9.

Kenneth Wuest explains this section of Romans 8:13 - "Assuming that a person lives habitually under the dominion of the evil nature, Paul says, that person is about to be dying. The verb is present in tense, and therefore durative in meaning, indicating habitual action. The individual who lives habitually under the dominion of the evil nature is an unsaved person. That one is on the way to final death in the Lake of Fire. But the person who by the Holy Spirit habitually puts to death the deeds of the body, will live. That person is a saved person.

Living (2198) (zao) in the present tense means that one is not just behaving for a moment under the "spell" of the old evil nature but that this person is behaving continually, habitually having their life dominated and directed by the evil nature, the flesh.

According to the flesh (kata sarx) as explained earlier conveys the idea of one placing themselves down and therefore under the dominion or control of the evil flesh nature. Not a good position to be in spiritually speaking!

If a professing (not necessarily possessing) "Christian" habitually lives in sin and shows no concern for repentance, forgiveness, worship, or fellowship with other believers, he proves that he claims the name of Christ in vain. Many false Christians in the church work hard at keeping their lives pure in appearance, because other people think more highly of them for it and because they feel prouder of themselves when they act morally and benevolently than when they do not.

https://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_812-13

I actually agree with everything you have just posted above. Then why are we arguing? I suspect there may be an element somewhere where we are missing each other.

I suspect the missing element is this: You posit that a believer could never ever become an unbeliever. I posit, based on scriptural eveidences posted in many places above that they can. But other than that, what you have written in this post above I agree with.

 

[NayborBear]

Translation: Jesus isn’t good enough to save you. Blah blah blah...

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Sounds like salvation isn't so much a given, as it is Christ's gospel, is the way UNTO salvation.

 

[EleventhHour]

In answer to this question, what I meant by that statement is that all believers are in Christ’s house. There are not some in and some out. All believers are in his house. Then see Hebrews 3:6.

I am not putting words in your mouth. I am just saying that Hebrews 3:6 is talking about believers.

I know the original issue was 3:14, but Hebrews 3:6 says basically the same thing, in my opinion at least

But I am not trying to challenge you or anything like that. Just differ slightly in my perspective

Too funny .. yes I agree... they are saying the same thing.. absolutely about believers

 

[Discern]

Too funny .. yes I agree... they are saying the same thing.. absolutely about believers

 

[Chris1975]

Are you ever going to respond to what Jesus said in John 6? About how whoever believes in him will never hunger or thirst, live forever, never die, has eternal life and will be risen on the last day? Not to mention the assurance that as long as Jesus lives, they will live also?

How many times do I need to ask you?

The operative word is believes in him. Your definition and my definition of believes differ. My definition of Believes is a Living Faith, as opposed to a once off decision at some time in the past (your version).

Hebrews 3
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Belief = Obedience
Disobedience=Unbelief

 

[Discern]

Hope everyone has a merry a Christmas. Keep on the sunny side of life.

 

[Chris1975]

The operative word is believes in him. Your definition and my definition of believes differ. My definition of Believes is a Living Faith, as opposed to a once off decision at some time in the past (your version).

Hebrews 3
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Belief = Obedience
Disobedience=Unbelief

Your belief is that a Once off belief (OSAS) is sufficient, ignoring all of the other scriptures which implore us to HOLD ON to the Faith, NOT DRAW BACK etc. To those who BELIEVE, all of those other promises YOU are quoting are true. But to someone who draws back, they are no longer true.