Not By Works

[VCO]

People do change, and I am sorry you cannot see that, I mean they can love their partner and before you know it they are getting divorced to the person they committed their life to. Yes God is Faithful and will seek to bring us back to the fold. I know one person who begged his partner not to leave, but they did and there will be any more like them. People do change, it is sad. Some people just drift away from God without actually leaving, and they are still secure, but others do a 180 degree turn around and turn their back on God, and because they have rejected Him, rather than simply drifting along, there is no turning back because they would be crucifying him again.

I have returned to one of my old forums because I do not like conflict, and in my absence I find I have accumulated over 6000 likes, and they are asking me to be a moderator, but I don't think I will because I suspect it will be too stressful. Anyway, because of the fickle nature of man, I may be back, who can say except God. Blessings to you all.

Your REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND DO YOU? I have stressed multiple times that Once we are Born Again, it is AGAPE LOVE that controls us. THAT IS NOT HUMAN LOVE it is LOVE the FATHER WANT the Holy Spirit to pour Into our Hearts, which is the Human Spirit. That is GOD's LOVE that Drives Us to Love beyond what Human Love can muster.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


HIS LOVE WILL NOT FAIL OR FALL AWAY, AGAPE LOVE COMES FROM GOD. I am sorry that You have never felt that KIND OF LOVE, or you would understand. It only comes when you are Born Again.

 

[PS]

Your REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND DO YOU? I have stressed multiple times that Once we are Born Again, it is AGAPE LOVE that controls us. THAT IS NOT HUMAN LOVE it is LOVE the FATHER WANT the Holy Spirit to pour Into our Hearts, which is the Human Spirit. That is GOD's LOVE that Drives Us to Love beyond what Human Love can muster.

Romans 5:5 (HCSB)
5 This hope will not disappoint ⌊us⌋, because God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


HIS LOVE WILL NOT FAIL OR FALL AWAY, AGAPE LOVE COMES FROM GOD. I am sorry that You have never felt that KIND OF LOVE, or you would understand. It only comes when you are Born Again.

His love never fails, but our love can, worse still on a human level we can kill the one who loves us. Neither can the one we love force us to love them. It is all down to free will as exhibited by Adam and Eve, they chose Satan, and we can if we are to be so foolish.

 

[dcontroversal]

His love never fails, but our love can, worse still on a human level we can kill the one who loves us. Neither can the one we love force us to love them. It is all down to free will as exhibited by Adam and Eve, they chose Satan, and we can if we are to be so foolish.

This reeks of a complete ignorance of Genesis and what Adam and EVE did, what God did, what the word of Gid states clearly and you really should go get right with the word of God...it is sickening and disgusting how you butcher the word of God and then peddle it like you know what you are talking about....

It is absolutely evil to post the above and say they CHOSE SATAN WHEN that is NOT WHAT TOOK PLACE!

 

[Judges1318]

Read the entire book and you will see that the faith being addressed is not "saving faith" and there the word "save" is not in reference to being born again or the spiritual rebirth.

Since James uses the example of Abraham's obedience to sacrifice Isaac, the promised son, to illustrate what he's talking about we know he is talking about faith in regard to being declared righteous in being saved/born again.

James' point being, the faith that justifies apart from works, works. It does something, or else it is not the faith that justifies apart from works. For if we really are of Abraham's seed and heirs of the promise through faith then we will do the things Abraham did.

If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.-John 8:39

And so we see that "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."-James 2:24 NAS. For the man who is not justified by what he does has not been justified by what he believes. That kind of faith--dead faith--can not save a man and secure the promised inheritance, eternal life.

 

[Judges1318]

See here ... you are contradicting yourself....

First....Yes salvation is a free gift not based upon any works

Second... Oh but if the faith does not have works then it does not justify

A feeble attempt to reconcile scripture but it is actually a complete contradiction.

Hopefully, my last post makes it clear to you and resolves any apparent contradiction you see in the necessity for a man to not only be justified by faith but also by what he does. When understood properly that's not a works gospel.

If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.-John 8:39

 

[mailmandan]

Since James uses the example of Abraham's obedience to sacrifice Isaac, the promised son, to illustrate what he's talking about we know he is talking about faith in regard to being declared righteous in being saved/born again.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

And so we see that "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."-James 2:24 NAS. For the man who is not justified by what he does has not been justified by what he believes. That kind of faith--dead faith--can not save a man and secure the promised inheritance, eternal life.

When James says "faith alone" he is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) that remains alone - "barren of works." James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

 

[blue_ladybug]

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

^

You know I never thought of it that way.. wanting to upset OSAS believers..... as many of us (OSAS believers) would agree it is not personally upsetting but very upsetting with regards to the devaluation and attempt to add to of the work of our Lord and Savior.

That is frustrating to no end!!!

I know of a child molester who loves his once saved always saved doctrine. I have another acquaintance who never had a clear foundation laid of repentance and baptism according to the Scriptures and he can just never get free from alcohol or immorality. He thinks he is going to heaven, even though, Jesus calls him "a slave of sin" who "has no permanent place in the household". Such would be as the vessels for dishonor Paul spoke of 2 Tim. 2.

The innumerable houses built on sand that such doctrines of demons such as once saved always saved produces. The countless millions who have never crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires and, therefore, don't really belong to Christ.

Once saved always saved folks want Jesus as Savior but He's not just Savior, He is Lord. 25 or so times He is spoken of as Savior in the New Testament; 300 times He is spoken of as Lord. You can't have Him as 1 without the other. The righteous live by faith, not by making their own decisions. You are gravely mistaken.

Time to get your whole Bible back. "The Lord is with you when you are with Him. If you seek Him, you will be found by Him. But if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever." Jesus came to save from sin, not in it, and to lead us and be our Head through the operation of the Holy Spirit that everything we do now would be done to the glory of the Father. Amen!

Those buildings this morning will be filled with folks with unforgiveness in hearts. God says such are not forgiven yet they will pretend they have eternal life. Forgiving others is just 1 piece of the puzzle, as it were. What a mockery. The world knows we are to be holy.

 

[PennEd]

^

I know of a child molester who loves his once saved always saved doctrine. I have another acquaintance who never had a clear foundation laid of repentance and baptism according to the Scriptures and he can just never get free from alcohol or immorality. He thinks he is going to heaven, even though, Jesus calls him "a slave of sin" who "has no permanent place in the household". Such would be as the vessels for dishonor Paul spoke of 2 Tim. 2.

The innumerable houses built on sand that such doctrines of demons such as once saved always saved produces. The countless millions who have never crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires and, therefore, don't really belong to Christ.

Once saved always saved folks want Jesus as Savior but He's not just Savior, He is Lord. 25 or so times He is spoken of as Savior in the New Testament; 300 times He is spoken of as Lord. You can't have Him as 1 without the other. The righteous live by faith, not by making their own decisions. You are gravely mistaken.

Time to get your whole Bible back. "The Lord is with you when you are with Him. If you seek Him, you will be found by Him. But if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever." Jesus came to save from sin, not in it, and to lead us and be our Head through the operation of the Holy Spirit that everything we do now would be done to the glory of the Father. Amen!

Those buildings this morning will be filled with folks with unforgiveness in hearts. God says such are not forgiven yet they will pretend they have eternal life. Forgiving others is just 1 piece of the puzzle, as it were. What a mockery. The world knows we are to be holy.

Are you a born again Child of God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

His love never fails, but our love can, worse still on a human level we can kill the one who loves us. Neither can the one we love force us to love them. It is all down to free will as exhibited by Adam and Eve, they chose Satan, and we can if we are to be so foolish.

we can never love god enough to earn salvation

its not that we loved, but that god loved us

God does not kick his children out man.

i am sorry, but you make God out to be a pretty lowlife father. I just pray you do not treat your kids that way. I pray you love them unconditionally, like my God loves us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Since James uses the example of Abraham's obedience to sacrifice Isaac, the promised son, to illustrate what he's talking about we know he is talking about faith in regard to being declared righteous in being saved/born again.

James' point being, the faith that justifies apart from works, works. It does something, or else it is not the faith that justifies apart from works. For if we really are of Abraham's seed and heirs of the promise through faith then we will do the things Abraham did.

If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.-John 8:39

And so we see that "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."-James 2:24 NAS. For the man who is not justified by what he does has not been justified by what he believes. That kind of faith--dead faith--can not save a man and secure the promised inheritance, eternal life.

since Abraham’s act james spoke of occurred decades after he was declared righteous (Saved] when he believed god, and his Faith made him spiritually a righteous man eternally saved

and we have all of Abraham’s sins in between, it is found that Abraham’s faith grew. As happens to gods children.
remember the same abraham who committed adultery to try to fulfill gods plan through his own works.

james argument was against people who had no works.who were never children of god. Because they had no faith period (it was dead) not because abraham earned his salvation.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

We certainly know by the fact that Jesus is our Savior that we cannot accomplish our own salvation... so quite obviously Paul in his letter to the Philippians is stating that we need to work out what we already do have (in Christ) with fear and trembling

As well we are positionally sanctified so much like the writer in Hebrews was instructing,....... we are called to
"work out(wardly) what God is working in you.'

Philippians 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;

As well it has come to the attention of Eleventh Hour that this can never be repeated enough..........

Take a look at everything I said there sister, in context.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hopefully, my last post makes it clear to you and resolves any apparent contradiction you see in the necessity for a man to not only be justified by faith but also by what he does. When understood properly that's not a works gospel.

If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.-John 8:39

Sorry, but no it did not

it just further proved you are placing your faith in works based gospel, which is no gospel at all.
your faith is in self., not God, your last post prety much proved what we already knew.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

^

I know of a child molester who loves his once saved always saved doctrine. I have another acquaintance who never had a clear foundation laid of repentance and baptism according to the Scriptures and he can just never get free from alcohol or immorality. He thinks he is going to heaven, even though, Jesus calls him "a slave of sin" who "has no permanent place in the household". Such would be as the vessels for dishonor Paul spoke of 2 Tim. 2.

The innumerable houses built on sand that such doctrines of demons such as once saved always saved produces. The countless millions who have never crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires and, therefore, don't really belong to Christ.

Once saved always saved folks want Jesus as Savior but He's not just Savior, He is Lord. 25 or so times He is spoken of as Savior in the New Testament; 300 times He is spoken of as Lord. You can't have Him as 1 without the other. The righteous live by faith, not by making their own decisions. You are gravely mistaken.

Time to get your whole Bible back. "The Lord is with you when you are with Him. If you seek Him, you will be found by Him. But if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever." Jesus came to save from sin, not in it, and to lead us and be our Head through the operation of the Holy Spirit that everything we do now would be done to the glory of the Father. Amen!

Those buildings this morning will be filled with folks with unforgiveness in hearts. God says such are not forgiven yet they will pretend they have eternal life. Forgiving others is just 1 piece of the puzzle, as it were. What a mockery. The world knows we are to be holy.

You know what is sad about this

if you were standing in front of god now, your sins would be exposed,and you would be just as guilty as those people. Whether they are saved or not.

your phariseeism shinesbrigtly, as you just puffed your chest and thanks god yu are not sinners like that drunk or child molestor. (Think tax collector)

I suggest you repent and become like the tax collector before it is too late. And stop worrying about these two people and whether or not they will get to heaven or not. Only god knows.

as for who is God?

he is redeemer
he is the propitiator
he is the lamb of god who takes away the penalty of sin
he is the one who made atonement
he is the author and finisher of our faith
he is the Abba father
he is the almighty,
he is the creator of all
he is the Lord of all
he is the mediator
he is the maker of heaven and earth
he has removed our sins as far as the east is from the west,
he is the conqueror
he is the winner
he is everything he says he is

i pray you get to know him soon, because it is obvious you do not know him yet.

 

[RebuildJesussChurch]

See here ... you are contradicting yourself....

First....Yes salvation is a free gift not based upon any works

Second... Oh but if the faith does not have works then it does not justify

A feeble attempt to reconcile scripture but it is actually a complete contradiction.

Second... if faith does not have works it is not faith.

He chooses us apart from works. Gives us faith. We repent and are baptized. Our faith then produces righteous acts. As it is written, "He who does what is right is righteous." Error comes from thinking faith and conduct are separable henceforth.

Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. And "through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed Me." Genesis 22:18. See 26:6. Fallen humanity seeks to artificially separate the 2.

The signs shall follow them that believe! The righteous live by faith. In Him we live and move and have our being. Amen.

 

[PS]

we can never love god enough to earn salvation

its not that we loved, but that god loved us

God does not kick his children out man.

i am sorry, but you make God out to be a pretty lowlife father. I just pray you do not treat your kids that way. I pray you love them unconditionally, like my God loves us.

God loves the sinner, that is true, and if the sinner repents and seeks to love and obey God then all is well, but if the sinner continues in their wickedness and is unrepentant then you know the rest, and Once Saved Always Saved fails the test.

 

[Discern]

Second... if faith does not have works it is not faith.

He chooses us apart from works. Gives us faith. We repent and are baptized. Our faith then produces righteous acts. As it is written, "He who does what is right is righteous." Error comes from thinking faith and conduct are separable henceforth.

Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. And "through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed Me." Genesis 22:18. See 26:6. Fallen humanity seeks to artificially separate the 2.

The signs shall follow them that believe! The righteous live by faith. In Him we live and move and have our being. Amen.

Good works and obedience flow from our Love to Christ, and our love to Christ flows from the New Nature and Grace He has instilled in us.

Seed, root, branch, and fruit. Faith alone makes us a child of God. As a child, we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

A branch does not bear fruit by working. A tree bears fruit by abiding in the tree

 

[Lightskin]

You kinda already did.. just saying..

Shhh 🤫

 

[Lightskin]

^

I know of a child molester who loves his once saved always saved doctrine.

Why have you not neutralized that child molester? Surely that would be a good work.

 

[EleventhHour]

Second... if faith does not have works it is not faith.

He chooses us apart from works. Gives us faith. We repent and are baptized. Our faith then produces righteous acts. As it is written, "He who does what is right is righteous." Error comes from thinking faith and conduct are separable henceforth.

Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. And "through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed Me." Genesis 22:18. See 26:6. Fallen humanity seeks to artificially separate the 2.

The signs shall follow them that believe! The righteous live by faith. In Him we live and move and have our being. Amen.

Scripture defines faith quite well ... no mention of works as part of salvation!!!!

New International Version
Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.
Hebrews 11:1

Faith is the passive result of being persuaded, convinced, and convicted that something is true.

I like the way @OneOfHis puts it ....

Actual belief is not a choice, it is an indwelling response to received information.

You can try to choose to believe fire is cold, but if you have felt the heat.... you will know better inwardly.

And yes they are separate because it is faith that pleases God for salvation!!!

New International Version
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
Hebrews 11:6