Not By Works

[mailmandan]

Skewed view? I've given you the word the Greek language uses to communicate what saving Faith is,and the exact definition out of the Greek dictionary.

Your not discounting my understanding, your discounting their knowledge of the Greek language.

You have given me your biased take on faith from your pet Greek dictionary. As I already previously explained to you (but unfortunately it continues to fall on deaf ears) John 1:12 is attached with "a personal surrender to Him" in Vine's definition. John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. There is the personal surrender to Him. When we choose to believe in/have faith in Christ unto salvation (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) we are entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ, along with placing confidence, trust and reliance in Him for salvation. That would be a personal surrender to Him, resulting in justification (Romans 5:1) and that is the ROOT of salvation.

The FRUIT of salvation would be living by or "out of" faith, as we see 2 Corinthians 5:7 attached with "a conduct inspired by such surrender" in Vine's definition, which reads - For we walk/live by faith and not by sight. This is our continued walk with the Lord by which by or "out of" faith believers bear fruit/produce works. So faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and "a conduct inspired by surrender" which FOLLOWS saving faith in Christ and results in producing good works would be the FRUIT. You continue to mix cause and effect.

Your definition of pisteuo amounts to salvation by grace through faith PLUS WORKS, contrary to salvation through faith, NOT WORKS (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..). I have a Strong's expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible and Pisteuo #4100 says - to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), to entrust (especially one's spiritual well being to Christ). It goes on to say, Pisteuo means not just to believe, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies, in this sense of the word, reliance upon. *Nothing there about a life inspired by such surrender which "follows" saving faith in Christ/fruit of faith/good works being mixed in with the definition of faith.

 

[stillness]

Through conviction, enlightenment, prodding, still small voice, opening eyes to the truth, etc......

You do say some good things?.

Who's leaving out Grace? Nobody including me is leaving out Grace. Rarely do we as humans pass up the opportunity to get something for free. Our sins are covered,through Faith. Through pisteuo, through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. This is God's way! Not mine!

Grace is a different word in the Greek also Fred.

I wish it were so, that no one leaves out Grace, but there is enough evidence in the bible and in my own life of looking for a different way in the past, and now to trust His Grace as sufiscient: whenever we think like men in the flesh, are not trusting His Grace alone. We should all know better, but we leave our Grace whenever we don't keep ourselves in the Love of God: whenever we quarel, cause divisions, think to highly of ourselves. Paul admitted being oppressed by an evil spirit so that he would not think to highly of himself and trust in the Grace of God in weakness. We know better and "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak."

 

[stillness]

1st my context was about salvation, 2nd When Noose likes something you wrote....tells us all how off base it is......just saying...the "truth" Noose stands for and promotes could not even be used as a tabloid story or the ingredients on the back of a cracker jack box......

Since you said:

1st my context was about salvation, 2nd When Noose likes something you wrote....tells us all how off base it is......just saying...the "truth" Noose stands for and promotes could not even be used as a tabloid story or the ingredients on the back of a cracker jack box......

From the time that you wrote: you think like someone who has not read through the bible, I accepted that you will remain a babe until your sorry for your judgments against the breatren. I'm also glad to see that i' m not the only one observing not living what you believe: that it's all about Jesus.

 

[VCO]

Grace is the Free gift, the unmerited favor. Faith or pisteuo is our response to that Free gift.

The free gift, Grace is completed, finished, done! Faith is not, it's a daily response for what Christ did on Calvary, and yes, work and effort are required.

LET'S Put you to the TEST and see what the MOST COMMON WORK FOR FAITH really Means.

Luke 17:6 (NASB)
6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith {Gk. - pistis}

like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you.

QUOTE:
Greek NASB Number: 4102

Greek Word: πίστις

Transliterated Word: pistis
Root: from 3982;

Definition: faith, faithfulness:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
faith (238),
faithfulness (3),
pledge (1),
proof (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:


><>

John 1:50 (NASB)
50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe {Gk. - pisteuô} ? You will see greater things than these."


QUOTE:

Greek NASB Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliterated Word: pisteuô
Root: from 4102;

Definition: to believe, entrust:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
believe (118),
believed (73),
believers (3),
believes (29),
believing (10),
do (1),
entrust (1),
entrusted (6),
entrusting (1),
has faith (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:


IT SEEMS YOU HAVE ADDED TO THE MEANING of the word pisteuô.
Shame on you.

Proverbs 30:6 (HCSB)
6 Don’t add to His words, or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.

 

[fredoheaven]

Vines Greek dictionary exact definition of pisteuo or saving Faith.

"A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

Every word in that definition has a specific Greek word, does that mean the definition is incorrect? No!

Vine is not my final authority, the Bible is. Of course, Vine is rendering a wrong Greek word and misleading, inadequately using s wrong Greek word as put Liddell and Stott (another Greek geek). On page 1,216-1217 in their Greek Lexicon (not my final authority, of course, only as a reference) putting pisteou means to trust, put faith in, rely on, believe in... and in NT and Eccl. use "to believing, have faith." There's no such thing as "to surrender." Vine definition is of a WRONG Greek word as in this case.

 

[VCO]

LET'S Put you to the TEST and see what the MOST COMMON WORK FOR FAITH really Means.

Luke 17:6 (NASB)
6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith {Gk. - pistis}

like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you.

QUOTE:
Greek NASB Number: 4102

Greek Word: πίστις

Transliterated Word: pistis
Root: from 3982;

Definition: faith, faithfulness:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
faith (238),
faithfulness (3),
pledge (1),
proof (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:


><>

John 1:50 (NASB)
50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe {Gk. - pisteuô} ? You will see greater things than these."


QUOTE:

Greek NASB Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliterated Word: pisteuô
Root: from 4102;

Definition: to believe, entrust:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
believe (118),
believed (73),
believers (3),
believes (29),
believing (10),
do (1),
entrust (1),
entrusted (6),
entrusting (1),
has faith (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:


IT SEEMS YOU HAVE ADDED TO THE MEANING of the word pisteuô.
Shame on you.

Proverbs 30:6 (HCSB)
6 Don’t add to His words, or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.

FOUND A TYPO. On the first line of my post the word "work", is a typo, it SHOULD BE "WORD".

That was an accident, however HIS FALSE DEFINITION, seems to be DELIBERATE. The word pisteuô does not even mean FAITH, it only means BELIEVE or ENTRUST. ONLY in ONE VERSE does the NASB translate that to FAITH:

Romans 14:2 (NASB)
2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.


Most versions of the Bible translate that to it's correct translation of Believes or Believeth.

 

[Melach]

Grace is the Free gift, the unmerited favor. Faith or pisteuo is our response to that Free gift.

The free gift, Grace is completed, finished, done! Faith is not, it's a daily response for what Christ did on Calvary, and yes, work and effort are required.

grace is the free gift? i thought eternal life was the free gift?

 

[VCO]

grace is the free gift? i thought eternal life was the free gift?

You are Correct:

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

However:

Romans 5:17 (ESV)
17 For if, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:24 (NCV)
24 and all need to be made right with God by his grace, which is a free gift. They need to be made free from sin through Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:16 (NCV)
16 After Adam sinned once, he was judged guilty. But the gift of God is different. God’s free gift came after many sins, and it makes people right with God.

Ephesians 1:6 (NJB)
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, his free gift to us in the Beloved,


Revelation 22:17 (NIV)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.


So it would seem to incorporate everything HE did for us on the Cross, including HIS Free Grace.

 

[Pisteuo]

FOUND A TYPO. On the first line of my post the word "work", is a typo, it SHOULD BE "WORD".

That was an accident, however HIS FALSE DEFINITION, seems to be DELIBERATE. The word pisteuô does not even mean FAITH, it only means BELIEVE or ENTRUST. ONLY in ONE VERSE does the NASB translate that to FAITH:

Romans 14:2 (NASB)
2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.


Most versions of the Bible translate that to it's correct translation of Believes or Believeth.

Pistis is the Greek word for Faith. Pisteuo is the corresponding verb to Pistis. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does.

The mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing, are corresponding verbs to the noun Belief, not the noun Faith. That should be your first hint.

Second hint, the Greek language doesn't even have a word for the English words believe, believer, and believing. There is only pisteuo, an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence, that moves us towards God. And there's Apisteuo, the reverse, an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence, that moves us away from God.

Pisteuo" a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender" moves us towards God. Any other act of pisteuo moves us away from God.

Please read all of my posts for the last few days, so I don't have to repeat myself.

 

[dcontroversal]

Since you said:

From the time that you wrote: you think like someone who has not read through the bible, I accepted that you will remain a babe until your sorry for your judgments against the breatren. I'm also glad to see that i' m not the only one observing not living what you believe: that it's all about Jesus.

You know nothing about me and how I live...you think that raking false teachers, salvation losers or earners, Pharisees etc. over rhe coals on a website defines who I am or live....ok.....cool....see what shakes out when that yard stick is laid to your life....study carefully before you judge me pal.....JESUS used many different types, demeanors and or personalities to lay his truth bare!

 

[Pisteuo]

Saving Faith is fulfilled by pisteuo. Pisteuo is a verb!

A verb is an action word. A verb defined is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence. Pisteuo is a specific act, based upon a specific belief, sustained by a specific kind of confidence.

That specific act is a daily, continual surrender to Him.
The specific belief, is that God will accept, guide, maintain the surrendered life.
The specific kind of confidence, is make all the hundreds of daily decisions that support the fact that our lives are not ours anymore, but His now!

This is what saving Faith, NT pisteuo looks like.

 

[Pisteuo]

The English language tends to limit Faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, and confidence or trust. And it leaves the "Will", to another word which is "obedience". The King James thus sets free, Faith from Works. The Greek did not allow that. You didn't have "Pistis" (Faith) until you added the "Will" and hung the body in continuing action on what the mind believed and what the heart had confidence in. It was an expression of the "Whole Man"...

 

[Pisteuo]

Faithing", is the one thing that he will not force upon us. He can do everything else for us, but we gotta "Faithe". He could provide redemption, and covering for our sins. He could provide direction. He can create mansions, pour his spirit out on us, but without Faith, it is impossible to please God.

 

[Pisteuo]

Faith is the only tender, that will spend in eternity...

 

[stillness]

You know nothing about me and how I live...you think that raking false teachers, salvation losers or earners, Pharisees etc. over rhe coals on a website defines who I am or live....ok.....cool....see what shakes out when that yard stick is laid to your life....study carefully before you judge me pal.....JESUS used many different types, demeanors and or personalities to lay his truth bare!

I have not judged you, but after you judged yourself a babe, Looking to the Lord heard: Let him remain a babe. I understand that I can't help. Just like a dead mam can't save himself; but by the Grace of God we enter the work of God. Then Dcontroversial not by works, no longer aplies, as we are made alive to the Love of God by His Holy Spirit, to work out our renewal, and you know of this but would say that thIs does not a apply to salvation as if sanctification did not allow to salvation. This is what you have been thaught and you believed every word. Now your own judgment againstnthe brethren your like a babe crying for atrention that qcant be helped. Revelations 3:15 the church who think they are rich; Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit. As we obey the Truth that is in Jesus, "all things are possible to Him who believes." Jesus made it possible for us to go on to maturity, but you reject those who encourage you to go on to perfection. Neither would you be permitted because of the pride of achievement and judgments against yourself by judging others.

 

[UnderGrace]

I have not judged you, but after you judged yourself a babe, Looking to the Lord heard: Let him remain a babe. I understand that I can't help. Just like a dead mam can't save himself; but by the Grace of God we enter the work of God. Then Dcontroversial not by works, no longer aplies, as we are made alive to the Love of God by His Holy Spirit, to work out our renewal, and you know of this but would say that thIs does not a apply to salvation as if sanctification did not allow to salvation. This is what you have been thaught and you believed every word. Now your own judgment againstnthe brethren your like a babe crying for atrention that qcant be helped. Revelations 3:15 the church who think they are rich; Enter in as a little child and put away your divided spirit. As we obey the Truth that is in Jesus, "all things are possible to Him who believes." Jesus made it possible for us to go on to maturity, but you reject those who encourage you to go on to perfection. Neither would you be permitted because of the pride of achievement and judgments against yourself by judging others.

Have you been taught that works will save you?

Because if that is what you have been taught you have been taught wrong.

As well, you judge another by a faulty doctrine, in which case you are in NO position to make any judgments.

 

[Grandpa]

The English language tends to limit Faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, and confidence or trust. And it leaves the "Will", to another word which is "obedience". The King James thus sets free, Faith from Works. The Greek did not allow that. You didn't have "Pistis" (Faith) until you added the "Will" and hung the body in continuing action on what the mind believed and what the heart had confidence in. It was an expression of the "Whole Man"...

This is kind of a hard one to untangle.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

If you have faith in Christ then you are resting. You've been given Rest as a gift.

But, again, faith causes action. And our faith causes the action of rest. If that makes any sense.

 

[tantalon]

Salvation may be likened to a light switched on. The power makes the light work, not any effort on our part. AFTER salvation, we are expected to do what is right, or to be fruitful in righteousness. Some versions of the Bible have us "being saved". But conversion is instantaneous when baptized into the body of Christ as believers. If, AFTER salvation, we accomplish little or nothing as a member, then the parable of the sower, parable of the talents, James 2: 14-26 and the overcomers in the seven churches come into play. Romans 8: 1 should read the same as verse four. See KJV. Too much of the Bible is read without regard to context. Romans 8: 12-14. tell us that obedience that produces holiness is required. "Be ye holy as I am holy for without holiness, no man shall see the Lord". Romans 6: 22 says it well: But now, being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your FRUIT unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

 

[VCO]

Pistis is the Greek word for Faith. Pisteuo is the corresponding verb to Pistis. The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith like the Greek does.

The mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing, are corresponding verbs to the noun Belief, not the noun Faith. That should be your first hint.

Second hint, the Greek language doesn't even have a word for the English words believe, believer, and believing. There is only pisteuo, an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence, that moves us towards God. And there's Apisteuo, the reverse, an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence, that moves us away from God.

Pisteuo" a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender" moves us towards God. Any other act of pisteuo moves us away from God.

Please read all of my posts for the last few days, so I don't have to repeat myself.

YOU WOULD BE TOTALLY WRONG ABOUT THAT:


John 1:50 (NASB)
50 Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe {Gk. - pisteuô - #4100} ? You will see greater things than these."


QUOTE:

Greek NASB Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliterated Word: pisteuô
Root: from 4102;

Definition: to believe, entrust:--

List of English Words and Number of Times Used
believe (118),
believed (73),
believers (3),
believes (29),
believing (10),
do (1),
entrust (1),
entrusted (6),
entrusting (1),
has faith (1).

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

END QUOTE:



IT SEEMS YOU HAVE ADDED TO THE MEANING of the word pisteuô.
Shame on you.

Proverbs 30:6 (HCSB)
6 Don’t add to His words, or He will rebuke you, and you will be proved a liar.


John 1:50 (KJV)
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou {Gk. - pisteuô - #4100}? thou shalt see greater things than these.

QUOTE:

Greek Strong's Number: 4100

Greek Word: πιστεύω

Transliteration: pisteuō

Phonetic Pronunciation:

pist-yoo'-o

Root: from <G4102>

Cross Reference: TDNT - 6:174,849

Part of Speech: v

Vine's Words: Belief, Believe, Believers, Commit, Commission, Intrust, Trust

Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:

believe 239
commit unto 4
commit to (one's) trust 1
be committed unto 1
be put in trust with 1
be commit to one's trust 1
believer 1

[Total Count: 248] [.AND NONE OF THEM TRANSLATES TO "FAITH" .]


Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary. ON KJV WORDS.

END QUOTE:

We have a tool that we can use here. It is called a permanent - IGNORE LIST. THAT WAY WE CAN IGNORE YOUR POSTS, AND NONE OF YOUR POSTS WILL EVEN SHOW UP ON OUR SCREEN, SO YOU CAN USE YOUR DIVISIVENESS TO ARGUE WITH YOURSELF.

Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.


This is the second time that I personally have warned you about your divisiveness:

So the next time I will put you on my permanent IGNORE LIST and let you argue with yourself.

 

[linrow]

we are in the last day and we will see greater things. God has never changes he is the same yesterday and today. He is giving us mercy and time to repent!!1!!