Not By Works

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
374 rabbit chases
234 rounds between saved by faith vs. workers for
27 knock down drag outs
15 warnings by @Oncefallen ;) (doing his job)
3 temporary shut downs
967 verses of just as I am
and a partrige in a pear tree........

HAH
Have the other guys even scored yet or is it still a shutout?:ROFL::ROFL:
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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Have the other guys even scored yet or is it still a shutout?:ROFL::ROFL:
The other guys only exist in people’s imagination. So no, they haven’t scored because imaginary people can’t produce actions

Everyone agrees with Ephesians 2:8-9. Some of is also believe in Ephesians 2:1-7, and verse 9 to the end of the chapter and the rest of the book
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Agreed to let them hey......hilarious....I am confident that JESUS called PAUL and set him to minister to the GENTILES....HE NEEDED no approval from anyone....
It is of course easy for us to conclude now, with the passage of time. But we need to understand how the situation was like during the period of Acts, a transitional period between Judaism and Christianity.

From my understanding of you dconn, I think you may find it a tad difficult to put yourself in another person's perspective to try to understand why he believes the things he do, but let's try here. :)

Put yourself in the shoes of a typical Judaizer, one of those who oppose Paul in Acts 15 and Galatians 1 and 2, to try to understand their objections to Paul.

The Jerusalem leaders are the only persons with authority to say what the true gospel is, and this authority they received direct from Christ. Paul has no comparable authority: any commission he exercises was derived by him from the Jerusalem leaders, and if he differs from them on the content or implications of the gospel, he is acting and teaching quite arbitrarily.

James was the brother of Jesus and lived with Jesus since he was a boy. The original 12 apostles were the only persons with authority to say what the true gospel is, and this authority they received direct from Christ when he was walking on Earth.

Thus, James was certainly correct when he was writing his book of James. He was taught by Jesus in the flesh, who said to keep the Law of Moses (Matt 5:19-20), to a young man who asked Jesus what must he do to gain eternal life, James may have overheard Jesus replying to "keep all the commandments" (Matt 19:17), and "sell all you have and give to the poor" (Matt 19:21).

Thus, we have to understand the book of James from that perspective. The book of James is like a throwback to the Sermon of the Mount.

Paul has no comparable authority. He claimed he got his gospel thru revelation from the ascended Christ in Gal 1

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

He further claimed that he spent 3 years in Arabia where he probably got those revelations directed from the ascended Christ himself.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

The Jerusalem leaders practiced circumcision and observed the law and the customs, but Paul struck on a line of his own, omitting circumcision and other ancient observances from the message he preached, and thus he betrayed his ancestral heritage. This law-free gospel has no authority but its own; he certainly did not receive it from the apostles, who disapprove of his course of action. Their disapproval was publicly shown on one occasion at Antioch, when there was a direct confrontation between Peter and him on the necessity of maintaining the Jewish food-laws.

Those are Paul's claims and no one else could verify the authenticity of his gospel. Why should I, as a Judaizer, believe him over the words of James and the original 12 apostles? As far as I know if Paul differs from them on the content or implications of the gospel, he is acting and teaching quite arbitrarily.

Now he is trying to preach that one can be saved without obeying the Law of Moses and that the Jews need not follow them. How dare he! (Acts 15 and Acts 21) :)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
The other guys only exist in people’s imagination. So no, they haven’t scored because imaginary people can’t produce actions

Everyone agrees with Ephesians 2:8-9. Some of is also believe in Ephesians 2:1-7, and verse 9 to the end of the chapter and the rest of the book
Sounds like you don't agree with Ephesians 2:8-9 if you have to put that caveat in there.

Or are you just saying that you have superior knowledge of Ephesians 2:8-9 because you believe the scriptures before and after?

You don't think anyone else believes the same scripture as you do?


The important thing here is the shutout. Let's not lose sight of that.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Sounds like you don't agree with Ephesians 2:8-9 if you have to put that caveat in there.

Or are you just saying that you have superior knowledge of Ephesians 2:8-9 because you believe the scriptures before and after?

You don't think anyone else believes the same scripture as you do?


The important thing here is the shutout. Let's not lose sight of that.
The shutout against imaginary people that don’t exist.

Hey They’re pitching a shutout against a team of strawmen arguments.

Rah, rah, rah. Cheer!!!

It’s easy to dismiss an argument by ignoring it and erecting a strawman in its place
 
Dec 12, 2013
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It is of course easy for us to conclude now, with the passage of time. But we need to understand how the situation was like during the period of Acts, a transitional period between Judaism and Christianity.

From my understanding of you dconn, I think you may find it a tad difficult to put yourself in another person's perspective to try to understand why he believes the things he do, but let's try here. :)

Put yourself in the shoes of a typical Judaizer, one of those who oppose Paul in Acts 15 and Galatians 1 and 2, to try to understand their objections to Paul.

The Jerusalem leaders are the only persons with authority to say what the true gospel is, and this authority they received direct from Christ. Paul has no comparable authority: any commission he exercises was derived by him from the Jerusalem leaders, and if he differs from them on the content or implications of the gospel, he is acting and teaching quite arbitrarily.

James was the brother of Jesus and lived with Jesus since he was a boy. The original 12 apostles were the only persons with authority to say what the true gospel is, and this authority they received direct from Christ when he was walking on Earth.

Thus, James was certainly correct when he was writing his book of James. He was taught by Jesus in the flesh, who said to keep the Law of Moses (Matt 5:19-20), to a young man who asked Jesus what must he do to gain eternal life, James may have overheard Jesus replying to "keep all the commandments" (Matt 19:17), and "sell all you have and give to the poor" (Matt 19:21).

Thus, we have to understand the book of James from that perspective. The book of James is like a throwback to the Sermon of the Mount.

Paul has no comparable authority. He claimed he got his gospel thru revelation from the ascended Christ in Gal 1

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

He further claimed that he spent 3 years in Arabia where he probably got those revelations directed from the ascended Christ himself.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

The Jerusalem leaders practiced circumcision and observed the law and the customs, but Paul struck on a line of his own, omitting circumcision and other ancient observances from the message he preached, and thus he betrayed his ancestral heritage. This law-free gospel has no authority but its own; he certainly did not receive it from the apostles, who disapprove of his course of action. Their disapproval was publicly shown on one occasion at Antioch, when there was a direct confrontation between Peter and him on the necessity of maintaining the Jewish food-laws.

Those are Paul's claims and no one else could verify the authenticity of his gospel. Why should I, as a Judaizer, believe him over the words of James and the original 12 apostles? As far as I know if Paul differs from them on the content or implications of the gospel, he is acting and teaching quite arbitrarily.

Now he is trying to preach that one can be saved without obeying the Law of Moses and that the Jews need not follow them. How dare he! (Acts 15 and Acts 21) :)
It is not a matter of perspective and or even subjective reasoning....THE TRUTH is absolute in what it sets forth......and for sure we do NOT have the LIBERTY to base our belief on PERSPECTIVE.......IT states what it STATES and WE BY SIMPLE faith acknowledge and grasp it as truth.......
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Not sure why he is mouthing yet again.....one of these days he will pay the price.....and his over all statement is false concerning the Greek verb tense.....it depends WHICH verb tense is being used at the time.....some like the perfect tense sets forth a present continuing result from a past completed action.....yes...1st John concerning sin in a believer primarily points to a continual lifestyle of sin...…….
So are you saying that a truly regenerate person will not continue in a lifestyle of sin, but will progressively learn to walk righteously, and this is true of all regenerate people?
 
Dec 27, 2018
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All I know is the definition of grace that Bill gave was spit on. Grace involves, among other things, God Holy influence on people to bring them to Christ

And anyone that doesn’t know that grace involves active works of God, and think it only means a position we are in ln, does not have a complete definition ofvgrace
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Not sure why he is mouthing yet again.....one of these days he will pay the price.....and his over all statement is false concerning the Greek verb tense.....it depends WHICH verb tense is being used at the time.....some like the perfect tense sets forth a present continuing result from a past completed action.....yes...1st John concerning sin in a believer primarily points to a continual lifestyle of sin...…….
Who or what is John talking about when he says whatever is born of God does not practice sin?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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It is not a matter of perspective and or even subjective reasoning....THE TRUTH is absolute in what it sets forth......and for sure we do NOT have the LIBERTY to base our belief on PERSPECTIVE.......IT states what it STATES and WE BY SIMPLE faith acknowledge and grasp it as truth.......
As expected, ok I am out of this Long thread 🤗
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
All I know is the definition of grace that Bill gave was spit on. Grace involves, among other things, God Holy influence on people to bring them to Christ

And anyone that doesn’t know that grace involves active works of God, and think it only means a position we are in ln, does not have a complete definition ofvgrace
Spit on or spot on? I’m guessing spot on.
 

CherieR

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
2,271
1,430
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Phileo. Jesus used phileo the third time

Peter uses phileo all three times. Jesus used agape twice and phileo the third time

I know they weren’t speaking Greek, but there is a reason John used the words that he did.

So nothing wrong with interacting with the text
I agree that there is nothing wrong with interacting with the text of the Bible.
 
Dec 27, 2018
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Not sure why he is mouthing yet again.....one of these days he will pay the price.....and his over all statement is false concerning the Greek verb tense.....it depends WHICH verb tense is being used at the time.....some like the perfect tense sets forth a present continuing result from a past completed action.....yes...1st John concerning sin in a believer primarily points to a continual lifestyle of sin...…….
I'm glad that you and I agree that a child of GOD will not and cannot live a lifestyle of continual sin. Kudos!!:)

That is one of the things I have been saying all along, and being called a works salvationist for saying it.

(y)
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
I'm glad that you and I agree that a child of GOD will not and cannot live a lifestyle of continual sin. Kudos!!:)
Wow how did you even derive that from what he wrote.

You know he has explained the "incorruptible seed" at least a thousand times.

Honestly... the only thing you are after is to find a way to have him agree with you... but why does it matter so much to you?