Not By Works
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I've heard three different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6 (hypothetical view, lost salvation view, never truly saved view) but am not convinced that it teaches a really "saved" person really "lost their salvation." NOWHERE does the Bible use the specific words "lose or lost salvation." According to the hypothetical interpretation, the key word in the passage is "IF." The writer of Hebrews is setting up a hypothetical statement: "IF a Christian were to fall away, with the point being that it would be impossible (IF a Christian falls away) to renew them again to repentance. That’s because Christ died once for sin and if His sacrifice is insufficient, then there’s no hope at all. The passage, therefore, presents an argument based on a false premise (that a true Christian can fall away) and follows it to its senseless conclusion (that Jesus would have to be sacrificed again and again).
In regards to the never saved view, once enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus as the "true Light," giving light "to every man"; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject this light.
In reference to partakers of the Holy Spirit, this describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. An individual may become a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit, in regards to His pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead unbelievers to Christ. Yet notice that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indweled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" (guarantee) of future inheritance."
I already explained tasted the good word of God in my previous post.
In regards to "fall away," I find it interesting that this term was used by Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall FALL by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16) The wicked fall away permanently but were never saved. (1 John 2:19)
In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor, we see that those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. In other metaphors in scripture, we see that good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of fruit is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35). Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.
It's generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again. If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved," person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue for me.
In regards to the never saved view, once enlightened means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus as the "true Light," giving light "to every man"; but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. This light either leads to the complete acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject this light.
In reference to partakers of the Holy Spirit, this describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an enterprise or undertaking. It speaks of those who are participators in something. Metochos is used elsewhere in Hebrews in the context of believers (Hebrews 3:14 - "For we have become partakers of Christ") and thus the statement that the readers have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit seems at first glance to be support that true believers are being addressed, yet there are other ministries of the Holy Spirit that precede the receiving of the gift of the Holy Spirit. An individual may become a sharer in or partaker of the Holy Spirit, in regards to His pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin, righteousness and judgment to come by responding for a time to His drawing power intended to lead unbelievers to Christ. Yet notice that the writer does not state that these individuals were "indweled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" (guarantee) of future inheritance."
I already explained tasted the good word of God in my previous post.
In regards to "fall away," I find it interesting that this term was used by Jesus of His 11 disciples at the time of His arrest. The disciples deserted Jesus as was predicted and Peter obviously denied Jesus three times. They were said to "fall away." Matthew 26:31 - Then Jesus said to them, "You will all fall away because of Me this night, for it is written, 'I WILL STRIKE DOWN THE SHEPHERD, AND THE SHEEP OF THE FLOCK SHALL BE SCATTERED.' 32 "But after I have been raised, I will go ahead of you to Galilee." 33 But Peter said to Him, "Even though all may fall away because of You, I will never fall away." Obviously, this was not a loss of salvation. For a righteous man may fall seven times AND rise again, But the wicked shall FALL by calamity. (Proverbs 24:16) The wicked fall away permanently but were never saved. (1 John 2:19)
In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor, we see that those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit, but rather bears thorns and thistles. In other metaphors in scripture, we see that good fruit is a sign of true spiritual life and a lack of fruit is a sign of false believers (for example - Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35). Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away do not accompany salvation.
It's generally stated by those who believe salvation can be lost that you can get it back again. If the writer of Hebrews was truly teaching that a really "saved," person really "lost their salvation" then why didn't he simply say, "For it is impossible for those who were once born again or saved, if they fall away, to renew them again to salvation? Why is it that we never find the words "lost or lose your salvation" in the Bible? *That would certainly settle the issue for me.
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I dare not Mr. Bill, I dare not .... there are many versions
Okay I will say one thing, in nutshell that if someone falls away it means they were never true believers because they only made Jesus Saviour but also need to make Him Lord.
There are two requirements for salvation Saviour and Lord.
.... there are many versionsOkay I will say one thing, in nutshell that if someone falls away it means they were never true believers because they only made Jesus Saviour but also need to make Him Lord.
There are two requirements for salvation Saviour and Lord.
Surrendering to Him = Lord 😎
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Nothing..........I never paid for anything....... and I had some fairly high profile followers....politicians from AU, the U.S., even Trump had followed me.....it kinda bummed me out to be honest...I had the head of the conservative party in AU asking advice for political purposes etc........all over the world.......it is what it is....
and I had some fairly high profile followers....politicians from AU, the U.S., even Trump had followed me.....it kinda bummed me out to be honest...I had the head of the conservative party in AU asking advice for political purposes etc........all over the world.......it is what it is....-
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Nothing..........I never paid for anything....... and I had some fairly high profile followers....politicians from AU, the U.S., even Trump had followed me.....it kinda bummed me out to be honest...I had the head of the conservative party in AU asking advice for political purposes etc........all over the world.......it is what it is....
and I had some fairly high profile followers....politicians from AU, the U.S., even Trump had followed me.....it kinda bummed me out to be honest...I had the head of the conservative party in AU asking advice for political purposes etc........all over the world.......it is what it is....
I'm a little upset that I'm not on the high profile list.
Not surprised though as I'm not on Twitter.
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Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB)
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened *1 and have tasted of the heavenly gift *2 and have been made partakers
[or companions] of the Holy Spirit *3,
5 and have tasted the good word of God *4 and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
1. LESS than - LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE as HE COMMANDED.
2. LESS than - Received HIM as LORD of your LIFE, meaning MASTER.
3. LESS than - Being INDWELT by the HOLY SPIRIT.
4. LESS than - Having ATE the words of GOD.
Matthew 5:14-16 (HCSB)
14 “You are the light of the world. A city situated on a hill cannot be hidden.
15 No one lights a lamp and puts it under a basket, but rather on a lampstand, and it gives light for all who are in the house.
16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.
Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [not just PROFESS] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
John 14:17-18 (HCSB)
17 He is the Spirit of truth. The world is unable to receive Him because it doesn’t see Him or know Him. But you do know Him, because He remains with you and will be in you. [HE will be IN US, and HE will immerse us into the Spiritual Body of Christ.]
18 I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you.
Jeremiah 15:16 (HCSB)
16 Your words were found, and I ate them. Your words became a delight to me and the joy of my heart, for I am called by Your name, Yahweh God of Hosts.
All the examples in Hebrews 6:4-6 are LESS than what HE SAYS is a real CHRISTIAN. Yes the Holy Spirit works on the pre-conversion hearts, even while they are Church-goers. BUT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN BORN AGAIN, YET. A few will be Born Again, if they REMAIN, and majority of others WILL fall away.
1 John 2:19-22 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.
20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you have knowledge.
21 I have not written to you because you don’t know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie comes from the truth.
22 Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Jesus is the Messiah? This one is the antichrist: the one who denies the Father and the Son.
How long must one of those Church-goers sit under the teaching of the word, before they become TRUE BELIEVERS? That depends on the individual. It took me 29 years, before I was Born Again, so I know it can take a long time before the WORD of GOD reaches the HEART. I thought I was already a Christian, because I sat on a pew nearly every Sunday. No one ever mentioned in the Church that I grew up in, that "sitting on a pew does not make you a real Christian, anymore than sitting in a Garage would make me a Real CAR."
Romans 10:14-17 (HCSB)
14 But how can they call on Him they have not believed in? And how can they believe without hearing about Him? And how can they hear without a preacher? [That hearing, is the type of hearing is with understanding, I did not Hear like that until I was 29.]
15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those who announce the gospel of good things!
16 But all did not obey the gospel. For Isaiah says, Lord, who has believed our message?
17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ.
You mention What is Impossible?
It is to enter Heaven without being Born Again.
John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
I dare not Mr. Bill, I dare not .... there are many versions
Okay I will say one thing, in nutshell that if someone falls away it means they were never true believers because they only made Jesus Saviour but also need to make Him Lord.
There are two requirements for salvation Saviour and Lord.
.... there are many versionsOkay I will say one thing, in nutshell that if someone falls away it means they were never true believers because they only made Jesus Saviour but also need to make Him Lord.
There are two requirements for salvation Saviour and Lord.
HE does NOT BECOME your Savior, until you can receive HIM as LORD.
Romans 10:9-10 (NASB)
9 that if you confess {not just profess} with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
See you have to receive HIM as LORD first, then when you confess it with your mouth, HE IS YOUR SAVIOR,
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NO, discipleship is one who follows a Certain Teacher. ANY TEACHER.
For example:
John 6:66 (NASB)
66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
NONE OF THEY WERE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS.
They followed HIM to see the miracles HE could do. Nothing more than Groupies, that just wanted to be entertained.
For example:
John 6:66 (NASB)
66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
NONE OF THEY WERE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS.
They followed HIM to see the miracles HE could do. Nothing more than Groupies, that just wanted to be entertained.
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