Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

I understand and agree with your sentiment here - I think you care deeply that we do not think that our works will get us saved, keep us saved, or get us "brownie points" with God! Amen! I agree!

After all the interaction with EG you think this legalist believes anything he is writing.
How hard is a heart, before it becomes beyond responding to Gods love and word?

If one holds an eternal transaction has taken place, yet regards those who do not agree as
spiritual lost and bankcrupt, you will begin to understand the lunacy of such interactions.

Either people have met Jesus and are born again or they are still in darkness.
For me an open heart and careful interaction shows the work in the heart. A blunder buss,
blowing ones way through, is just indoctrination and a hard heart.

Repentance is easy once you accept ones guilt and are committed to walk in love and the way
of Jesus. So many kick against this, I have no confidence they have a clue who Jesus actually
is, no matter how spiritual they claim their experiences are.
God bless you, I admire your perseverance, yet the language of many gives one pause for thought.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi brother! Chester was saying works have no bearing on salvation but they matter because they glorify God. I have to agree with him but I am open to correction if indeed I am seeing things incorrectly.

Oh I agree.

Its just he KNOWS this thread is not about what a person does AFTER they are saved, so not sure why he keeps bringing this topic up..

 

[Chester]

After all the interaction with EG you think this legalist believes anything he is writing.
How hard is a heart, before it becomes beyond responding to Gods love and word?

If one holds an eternal transaction has taken place, yet regards those who do not agree as
spiritual lost and bankcrupt, you will begin to understand the lunacy of such interactions.

I try to not call people who I do not know personally a legalist or accuse them of lunacy in interactions. (Though I did say today I thought one person was paranoid! - and that got me in hot water!) I don't agree with EG on lots of things, but I respect him as a fellow believer. (But I can't wait till I get to hear Paul and John explain things to him in heaven! LOL!)

 

[OneOfHis]

I try to not call people who I do not know personally a legalist or accuse them of lunacy in interactions. (Though I did say today I thought one person was paranoid! - and that got me in hot water!) I don't agree with EG on lots of things, but I respect him as a fellow believer. (But I can't wait till I get to hear Paul and John explain things to him in heaven! LOL!)

Well you also said I was against works....😅

The back to back claims made it feel like you were insincere but never in "hot water"

I forgive you

but would like you to explain why you said what you said if we had a misunderstanding

 

[Chester]

the part I made big is why I responded in a way to say God gets the glory for salvation...

not our works


I am far from paranoid


strongly built on solid ground

and i do resent that statement as well bro


and i encourage good works every single day of my life


just not for the cause of salvation

even hated for it by people dont know God or love His ways

Ah, me and my big mouth - why did I use "paranoid" ?

I do not think you are against good works - not what I meant - . . . .

 

[Chester]

I like a lot of what you say above - but this statement makes no sense to me: "the not by works thread is a thread meant to give glory to Jesus" - but you seem to be saying that our salvation is by grace through faith and keep the works out!

But do not works done by the power of might of Jesus bring glory to him? Isn't his works in our lives one of the greatest way the world sees His glory?

Note what I underlined: I said very clearly that this is what it seems to me that you are saying - in other words - that is my perception of what you were saying.

I am glad you clarified it for me.

 

[OneOfHis]

Note what I underlined: I said very clearly that this is what it seems to me that you are saying - in other words - that is my perception of what you were saying.

I am glad you clarified it for me.

What did I say that makes it seem to you I am against works?

 

[Chester]

I define salvation as being born into the family of God, As having everything against me, contrary to me and having those things nailed to the cross. I view salvation as having the curse of the law remeoved from me, where it cna no longer touch me, I view salvation as being sealed by the spirit, given eternal life, In all, I view salvation as having the penalty of sin (death) removed)

If you do not have ETErNAL life, and your salvation is not secure your really not saved.

Your trying to mix justification and sanctification, The topic of this thread is justification. Ie...,
This thread is about recieving salvation, Please stick to the topic. When you are talkign about recieving salvation, and someone screams works, legalism is the culprit.

Ie. We are NOT TALKING SANCTIFICATION. .

There is a HUGE problem when we try to mix justification with sanctification, in a thread where JUSTIFICATION and ONLY justification, is the topic.

Here is the issue:
So this thread is about justification: and in justification it is by faith and not by works - so keep works out of the discussion I am told.
But if we had a thread about sanctification: it is also by faith and not by works - so keep works out of that discussion also . . .?

Leaves me scratching my head? If we can't talk about works in a discussion of justification, then we can't talk about works in a discussion of sanctification either? So where do we talk about them . . . ?

You said, "This thread is about receiving salvation, Please stick to the topic. When you are talking about receiving salvation, and someone screams works, legalism is the culprit".

If you say that, then you must also say - "when you are talking about living salvation (sanctification), and someone screams works, legalism is the culprit."

Well - OK - but I am screaming anyway - WORKS!
I am screaming because I am not ashamed of works and I love that God has and is continuing to make me into His workmanship!

(Having said all that - I again say that I see your sentiment and agree - whether in a discussion of justification or of sanctification - it is easy to make works into a legalistic attaining or keeping of salvation! - and many here are doing it all the time!)

 

[OneOfHis]

A common thing that the wolves and lost do... is claim those who trust in Christ for salvation are against works...


Which is why I was so surprised by your words...

"but you seem to be saying that our salvation is by grace through faith and keep the works out!"


Now even though I believe your assurance is not full, and you aren't aware of the extent of Gods promises...

I believe you to be my brother in Christ and not trust in yourself for salvation at all.

That's why it felt wrong to see you post something like that when I have only encouraged good works...


It felt like one of those common tactics I see so often on here....


There was actually a user ... lets call them phransea....

Who said word for word


"If you don't think works keep you saved you are against works"

to me specifically....

But what you quoted in context was specifically about being justified before God.....


For someone I view as a brother to make such a silly claim with 0 evidence to back it up... seemingly for no reason at all actually...

It just stung a bit man


I thought we were havin a real talk... then you call me paranoid because again I point out the context for the third time that we are talking about salvation....

 

[Chester]

What did I say that makes it seem to you I am against works?

Ah - I never thought you were against works as such - but I thought you were against talking about works in the context of salvation - see post 104,608 -- I have to go and will not be back (maybe a peep) till Sunday or Monday.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is the issue:
So this thread is about justification: and in justification it is by faith and not by works - so keep works out of the discussion I am told.
But if we had a thread about sanctification: it is also by faith and not by works - so keep works out of that discussion also . . .?

Leaves me scratching my head? If we can't talk about works in a discussion of justification, then we can't talk about works in a discussion of sanctification either? So where do we talk about them . . . ?

You said, "This thread is about receiving salvation, Please stick to the topic. When you are talking about receiving salvation, and someone screams works, legalism is the culprit".

If you say that, then you must also say - "when you are talking about living salvation (sanctification), and someone screams works, legalism is the culprit."

Well - OK - but I am screaming anyway - WORKS!
I am screaming because I am not ashamed of works and I love that God has and is continuing to make me into His workmanship!

(Having said all that - I again say that I see your sentiment and agree - whether in a discussion of justification or of sanctification - it is easy to make works into a legalistic attaining or keeping of salvation! - and many here are doing it all the time!)

You can not have a thread about sanctification without works.

If people try to say so, they are wrong.

So please.

 

[Chester]

A common thing that the wolves and lost do... is claim those who trust in Christ for salvation are against works...

Now even though I believe your assurance is not full, and you aren't aware of the extent of Gods promises...

?? Ouch! OK - You are saying what you believe and not accusing me . . . .

 

[Chester]

You can not have a thread about sanctification without works.

If people try to say so, they are wrong.

So please.

Well then you cannot have a thread about justification without works either? . . .

Because both are the same: Justification is not by works: Sanctification is not by works

 

[OneOfHis]

Ah - I never thought you were against works as such - but I thought you were against talking about works in the context of salvation - see post 104,608 -- I have to go and will not be back (maybe a peep) till Sunday or Monday.

Well I am against needing to work in order to be or stay saved...
if that is what you meant.

?? Ouch! OK - You are saying what you believe and not accusing me . . . .

Ohhhh no I am definitely accusing you of lacking some understanding of Gods promises...😂

Just I don't think your lack of understanding or knowledge means lack of faith in Jesus Christ.


I do NOT think youre a wolf...

The fact you think you could just walk away from Jesus after being born again is wrong though.

1 :john 2:19

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well then you cannot have a thread about justification without works either? . . .

Because both are the same: Justification is not by works: Sanctification is not by works

Wrong

Justification is apart from works and has nothing to do with works.

Sanctification is the ability to do works.

 

[OneOfHis]

@Chester


You could tell someone that in order to be saved we need to repent from our unbelief, trust in Jesus Christ

be born again and made new...


but listen to journey dont stop believin and take notes or else you may be in trouble....


there is still fear in that...


your assurance cant be full like that


not only that

if someone can possibly stop trusting in Christ

they didnt get what i got when i was born again.... plain and simple


it is not possible.... satan himself couldnt take me away from Gods hand

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I try to not call people who I do not know personally a legalist or accuse them of lunacy in interactions. (Though I did say today I thought one person was paranoid! - and that got me in hot water!) I don't agree with EG on lots of things, but I respect him as a fellow believer. (But I can't wait till I get to hear Paul and John explain things to him in heaven! LOL!)

This is an interesting question you have raised. When is an individual to much a false teacher to be
regarded as a believer?

My answer to this would now be when their heart is closed to love and the Holy Spirit.
There is a fundamental difference when Jesus is in your heart and you have opened every area of
your life to Him, or you are living your life as always with a theology you fit to stop your conscience
bothering you. To me there is only one ingredient to the work of God is our lives, and it is love, and
humbleness is our walk with others.

Many have opposed this simple sharing and come with the worst type of judgementalism and antipathy,
exaggerated as if the sky has just fallen in. To my mind it is because they have no answer only their belief
God accepts them as they are, and they are secure. So anything that stirs up unease or a bad conscience or
the desire for change is seen as evil and the enemy. By your fruits you shall know them and I need to know
no more than this, God bless you.

And it shows continually in disconnect and anger, antipathy with no real foundation or sense.

 

[dcontroversal]

What you just proved is you can’t read. Or if you do read you can not understand.

DC never said anything like this, or that believers will never make a mistake.

What is it with you people and failure to read? Or understand?

Engaging some of these people is akin to cupping my hands in creek water and carrying up hill 400 yards to water one of my 2 acre food plots...........they see what they want to see, ignore context, verbiage, have no honesty or integrity and flat skew, twist and resist the truth........

 

[VCO]

No, works for the cause of maintaining or gaining salvation do not give glory to Jesus.

They belittle His gift.


He gets no glory for trying to pay for what He has already purchased and given to me freely in His mercy.



Jesus has a perfect righteousness He put on my account by grace through faith.

The value exceeds not only my cost but the cost of the whole world.

I won't pretend I need more than that, and I have faith that it is enough because that is what He taught.


I will not seek to establish my own righteousness and think by works I can be saved or stay saved.

I will submit to His righteousness and accept His gift with gratitude.


also

Who said don't do good works?

I know I didn't, ever.

But if you think they help save us...😅


You may have missed a verse or 300....

Heres a pretty big one.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


(cough cough, man gets no credit)

AMEN, the only thing I could add is SALVATION is complete the MOMENT WE GENUINELY BELIEVE. After Salvation we WILL Love HIM and show that LOVE by our Obedience. I do not understand how so may Christians think Obedience is part of SALVATION. Obedience spawns out of our LOVE FOR HIM, and John 14:15 and 1 John 5:3 actually says so.

 

[dcontroversal]

My review of the works thread. This is prety much the way it goes.

DC - the Sky is Blue!

Lawyers - No DC, they sky is not green,

DC - I said the sky is Blue!

Lawyers - No DC, the sky is not green!!

DC - Stop your slander and lying and misrepresenting what I say, the sky is blue! I have maintained that since I got here.

Lawyers, - Stop lieing DC, You keep saying the sky is Green, Everyone here can see it, You just hate the truth, and you hate God!!

EXACTLY.........and one right after another they have come and gone, been banned or put on ignore......HAH---->Thanks be to the Moderator "gods" and the ignore button....otherwise I would have been committed or banned by now.....probably towed the line a few ties though HA