Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

Why are you so nasty? Do you have NO peace and joy in the Lord? Do you need more of Jesus and the Holy Spirit?💖💖💖

I have plenty of joy and peace...I just particularly despise false teachers and false gospels....

This says it all Least.

dc despises us as false teachers and a false gospel. It does not matter how little you share or where you are
coming from, once the judgement seat has judged, the missile has been launched and the destruction commences.

Reminds me of bugs bunny and the hunter who is always trying to kill him. What is funny is this is so
much a caricature behaviour except over something very serious, like being sent to hell, but on such
a flimsy foundation, it makes you wonder how it is maintained, other than by disparaging remarks against
the enemy and compliments to ones friends.

Some have said they like the unusual personality, unrounded, which sounds like you are forgiven for going
too far because you cannot help it, except that is simply not true, it is just abuse and going too far.

And yet this is somehow spiritual behaviour to be admired. God help those who think this is spiritual

25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth,
2 Tim 2

5 Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity.
6 Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.
Col 4

22 the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
Gal 5

So in the non biblical morality, abuse is the way to treat enemies, to exaggerate their sharing to condemn
them as worthy of Gods judgement and sending then to hell, rather than needing His love and understanding,
forgiveness and grace.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Where is that in scripture that "failing to abide" means loss of salvation?

Abiding is not salvation btw...

If abiding is not salvation, is being in rebellion and refusing to listen to God not sin?
You end up in universalism if you go down this road.

The whole reason for the cross is to bring us into the vine. If we are not in the vine we are dead.

5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15

If we do not remain in Jesus we will be thrown into the fire and burned.
It is really this simple, it is written that simply, it is only ones own faith position
that blinds you to the meaning of the words.

It is like saying in the middle of an ocean, if you jump overboard you will drown and die.
And then saying this means you are still safe and on board the ship and they will look after
you when clearly this is just delusion.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Are we as individual better than those we discuss with?

Maybe and maybe not. As we do not know them, how can we judge.
Pauls answer to this was simple.

3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.
4 Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others.
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Phil 2

Put simply this means the other person knows more than us so we are putting our understanding
or confusion forward so they can help us gain an clearer path. And what we thought was clear may
actually be wrong or have a wrong emphasis.

A success is when both parties part believing they have both gained something.

What sometimes helps is discussing not our own personal views but those of groups and their
difficulties over an issue. Until we grasp all the major points unfortunately our conclusions will
probably be flawed. So learning the basics before holding forth is always the best policy.

So words like wrong, false, no, they do not accept the truth, are not helpful.
But maybe those who use them actually have no intention of walking in love and the way of Jesus,
and this is just testimony to this. But God bless them, and you brothers and sisters in Christ as we
walk on on His glorious path of life.

 

[BillG]

How can you even pose this question to someone?
Baffling

Your post above to leastamongmany.

Her post on another thread, losing salvation.

I am shaking your dust off my feet and washing my hands of the misguided OSASERS!💖💖💖

Seems posts she makes end with those 3 hearts.

Not sure why because nothing loving about that.

Anyway I suggest reciprocating.

 

[VCO]

John 14:15 ESV
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

John 8:31 NIV
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.

James 2:24 NIV
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

Philippians 2:12 NIV
Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Matthew 7:21 NIV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

If obedience is not needed, these verses have no place in scripture.

Obedience is PART OF LOVE, not the free gift of SALVATION, that is what John 14:15 is saying. IT IS WHAT WE DO AFTER WE ARE SAVED.

Try and understand THIS:

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.


Titus 3:5 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.


Why do you want to contradict what GOD has said about our Salvation? Is it because YOU want to claim part of the CREDIT for YOURSELF, and in a sick pride, ROB the LORD of the GLORY that only belongs to HIM?

 

[UnderGrace]

Your post above to leastamongmany.

Her post on another thread, losing salvation.



Seems posts she makes end with those 3 hearts.

Not sure why because nothing loving about that.

Anyway I suggest reciprocating.

I know.... now wouldn't it be so hilarious if @dcontroversal started putting hearts on his posts, oh my goodness I am sure I would literally die laughing!!

Here @dcontroversal a selection for you




Okay I blame this heat wave for my jesting, I seriously am going stir crazy I think and too much coffee!

 

[VCO]

We do not lose it we reject the saving grace He sacrificed Himself as for us! We reject it by returning to sin and not repenting,then sin when it gives full birth brings forth death! For the wages of sin is death! Sin separates believers from God unless it is repented of and turned away from! 💖💖💖

FALSE DOCTRINE!

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NJB)
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God;
9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


The ONLY QUESTION is: ARE YOU GENUINELY SAVED, OR ARE YOU JUST PRETENDING TO BE SAVED?

YOU CAN TELL BY YOUR LOVE FOR HIM AND THE BRETHREN.

OBEDIENCE IS A MEASUREMENT OF YOUR LOVE,

AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SALVATION, WHICH IS THEE FREE GIFT.

 

[BillG]

dc despises us as false teachers and a false gospel. It does not matter how little you share or where you are
coming from, once the judge

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

He has said that many times.

If he despised a person then he would be jumped upon.

Be careful though, because you only have to delve into the losing salvation thread and see a few who accuse those who believe in OSAS and accuse them as being greasy gracers.

They assume that such use it as an excuse to sin all they want.
They are not interested to discuss just push.
And yes they come across as nasty.

So people take the plank out of our own eyes before looking at the speck in another's eyes.

There is a difference between accusing people based on a theological bent to use to sin and rejection of a theological bent.

To accuse a fellow beliver that their doctrine belief they do so to allow them to sin (always the biggies) and not have to do good works is shocking and an attack on the character and the walk they have with Jesus.

They do not even have the courtesy to ask.

So do not play that card.

 

[UnderGrace]

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

He has said that many times.

If he despised a person then he would be jumped upon.

Be careful though, because you only have to delve into the losing salvation thread and see a few who accuse those who believe in OSAS and accuse them as being greasy gracers.

They assume that such use it as an excuse to sin all they want.
They are not interested to discuss just push.
And yes they come across as nasty.

So people take the plank out of our own eyes before looking at the speck in another's eyes.

There is a difference between accusing people based on a theological bent to use to sin and rejection of a theological bent.

To accuse a fellow beliver that their doctrine belief they do so to allow them to sin (always the biggies) and not have to do good works is shocking and an attack on the character and the walk they have with Jesus.

They do not even have the courtesy to ask.

So do not play that card.

Absolutely and complete agree and that includes many others on CC, as well, we despise these false teachings that seem to be growing in this age as if Jesus never died on the cross! ... they do tremendous harm.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

He has said that many times.

If he despised a person then he would be jumped upon.

Be careful though, because you only have to delve into the losing salvation thread and see a few who accuse those who believe in OSAS and accuse them as being greasy gracers.

They assume that such use it as an excuse to sin all they want.
They are not interested to discuss just push.
And yes they come across as nasty.

So people take the plank out of our own eyes before looking at the speck in another's eyes.

There is a difference between accusing people based on a theological bent to use to sin and rejection of a theological bent.

To accuse a fellow beliver that their doctrine belief they do so to allow them to sin (always the biggies) and not have to do good works is shocking and an attack on the character and the walk they have with Jesus.

They do not even have the courtesy to ask.

So do not play that card.

Hi Bill,

You defend him. The trouble is I am neither for or against OSAS. If you understood what grace
truly was you would understand this is not the way.

You need to decide does someone speak against people or against theology and teaching.
Those who speak against theology, address the theology and the foundations and scripture involved.
Those who speak against individuals accuse them of deception, evil, lying, twisting etc. without examples
or explanation. Speaking against individuals is just giving false testimony against ones neighbour, a sin.

Love is fantastic. Jesus's love on the cross changes us, the more it comes into our hearts, and we listen
to His words. It is His words that bring life and bring transformation. We do not need to see others failures,
but dwell in the power of the Holy Spirit and the truth Jesus declares. His truth sets us free.

Behaviour matters to God, and empowering us to walk in love. This is an eternal reality.
Anyone who opposes this, is opposing God and His Son.

People love to dress up rebellion in other words, but it comes to the same thing.
I do not need to label or call people names, we either abide in Him, or we are just appeasing our own
consciences. God bless you

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Absolutely and complete agree and that includes many others on CC, as well, we despise these false teachings that seem to be growing in this age as if Jesus never died on the cross! ... they do tremendous harm.

Amen. We know Jesus's sacrifice for us, His love pouring out into our hearts,
victory over sin and death and walking in His love day by day.

This is the view believers have of Jesus, it is their lifes blood.

Jesus's message was listen, obey, put into action His words through faith and find life in Him.
My heart rejoices at the encouragement to share this gospel message and those who say we must
do nothing as a result of knowing Jesus are denying the cross and His truth. God bless you.

I am puzzled about harm, if people are sharing Jesus Amen, He has the victory through His words and
life, it will never return void to Him. Halleluyah.

 

[DJ3]

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

He has said that many times.

If he despised a person then he would be jumped upon.

Be careful though, because you only have to delve into the losing salvation thread and see a few who accuse those who believe in OSAS and accuse them as being greasy gracers.

They assume that such use it as an excuse to sin all they want.
They are not interested to discuss just push.
And yes they come across as nasty.

So people take the plank out of our own eyes before looking at the speck in another's eyes.

There is a difference between accusing people based on a theological bent to use to sin and rejection of a theological bent.

To accuse a fellow beliver that their doctrine belief they do so to allow them to sin (always the biggies) and not have to do good works is shocking and an attack on the character and the walk they have with Jesus.

They do not even have the courtesy to ask.

So do not play that card.

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

Are you really this naive? He calls people who disagree with him, "circus clowns". #102521

Regardless of whether it is an excuse for sin or not is not the issue. OSAS in bad logic and theology.

So don't play that card.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

Are you really this naive? He calls people who disagree with him, "circus clowns". #102521

Regardless of whether it is an excuse for sin or not is not the issue. OSAS in bad logic and theology.

So don't play that card.

Bill respects dc so it hurts to see criticism and bringing things into the light.
Jesus warned us about disrespecting unbelievers, and worse still judging believers.

But dc goes where my heart would not stray. For me I am shamed at such behaviour to
be linked to Jesus and grace, and among believers who have open sincere hearts desiring to
know more of Gods love and acceptance, is truly sad. God bless you.

Some find encouragement, in stepping out in faith and reassurance of Christ love for us.
What they miss is the cross is our security, that Jesus went there because He will honour
His promises if we honour Him and His word. Amen.

The problem many christian seekers have is not works but faith. They do not know Jesus and
desire to prove themselves good followers to the stranger they call Saviour. The answer is not
security but knowledge of Jesus and walking with Him in repentance.

 

[BillG]

Hi Bill,

You defend him. The trouble is I am neither for or against OSAS. If you understood what grace
truly was you would understand this is not the way.

You need to decide does someone speak against people or against theology and teaching.
Those who speak against theology, address the theology and the foundations and scripture involved.
Those who speak against individuals accuse them of deception, evil, lying, twisting etc. without examples
or explanation. Speaking against individuals is just giving false testimony against ones neighbour, a sin.

Love is fantastic. Jesus's love on the cross changes us, the more it comes into our hearts, and we listen
to His words. It is His words that bring life and bring transformation. We do not need to see others failures,
but dwell in the power of the Holy Spirit and the truth Jesus declares. His truth sets us free.

Behaviour matters to God, and empowering us to walk in love. This is an eternal reality.
Anyone who opposes this, is opposing God and His Son.

People love to dress up rebellion in other words, but it comes to the same thing.
I do not need to label or call people names, we either abide in Him, or we are just appeasing our own
consciences. God bless you

Firstly I did not defend him.
He is more than capable of doing that himself.
Secondly I have said to him in the past that I do not agree with him on certain points.
He has reciprocated.

Those who speak against individuals accuse them of deception, evil, lying, twisting etc. without examples
or explanation. Speaking against individuals is just giving false testimony against ones neighbour, a sin.

You have given likes to the people above who do exactly the same.

Speaking against individuals is just giving false testimony against ones neighbour, a sin.

And that was my point. Go to the salvation thread and see what some say about me, DC, UG, EG and many others who believe in Eternal Security. Making judgemental assumptions. And you gave a like.

Yes love is fantastic, it's amazing, it changes us.

As Jesus said,

By this the world will know that you are my disciples

John 13:35
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Accusing others based on their doctrinal bent of OSAS (Eternal security) to use it to do what they want, sin all they want, murder all they want, commit adultery all they want and so on is not showing love in any way shape or form.

To accuse those who believe in OSAS/ES as an excuse to sin all they want and sit on their ass and do nothing is judgemental to the core.

If someone does not agree with my ES bent that's fine.
I consider them a brother/sister in Jesus.
I would not judge them.
That's what Jesus will do.

Will they go to heaven?
I would say yes.

If they have placed their faith in Jesus, the risen Jesus and want to be like him then that's good enough for me.

 

[BillG]

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

Are you really this naive? He calls people who disagree with him, "circus clowns". #102521

Regardless of whether it is an excuse for sin or not is not the issue. OSAS in bad logic and theology.

So don't play that card.

Obviously I am.

I don't necessarily agree with the way he interacts and he knows that.

Regardless working to be saved is bad logic and theology.

So don't play that card.

Go look at the lose salvation thread.
See the vitriol given out by the same people who do what you accuse DC OFF.

They may not use "Circus clowns"

But maybe "YOU OSAS People look down on others"

Are you really that naive?

Maybe you are in the same crowd.

 

[VCO]

@dcontroversal does not despise false teachers.
He despises the gospel they preach.

Are you really this naive? He calls people who disagree with him, "circus clowns". #102521

Regardless of whether it is an excuse for sin or not is not the issue. OSAS in bad logic and theology.

So don't play that card.

YOUR THEORY OF WHAT OSAS BELIEVERS TEACH AND BELIEVE IS TOTALLY FALSE.
Square your THEORY about OSAS with these SCRIPTURES.


2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (HCSB)
6 Now if by grace, then it is not by works; otherwise grace ceases to be grace.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Peter 1:3-5 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 You are being protected by God’s power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 (NKJV)
20 For there is not a just man on earth who does good And does not sin.

Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him [Antichrist], everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.

2 Samuel 23:5 (NCV)
5 “This is how God has cared for my family. God made a lasting agreement with me, right and sure in every way. He will accomplish my salvation and satisfy all my desires.

Titus 3:5 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

[dcontroversal]

I know.... now wouldn't it be so hilarious if @dcontroversal started putting hearts on his posts, oh my goodness I am sure I would literally die laughing!!

Here @dcontroversal a selection for you

View attachment 201327


Okay I blame this heat wave for my jesting, I seriously am going stir crazy I think and too much coffee!

Hahahahahahha hilarious

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen Jesus saves to the uttermost!

Scripture is so clear, over and over again.....

Who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:12

They have no concept of this truth...eternal redemption <---the very truth and verbiage of this statement condradicts a losable salvation......some must be as dense as lead or just obstinate.....

 

[blue_ladybug]

They have no concept of this truth...eternal redemption <---the very truth and verbiage of this statement condradicts a losable salvation......some must be as dense as lead or just obstinate.....

For some reason, I read this as "lobster salvation"..

#Save The Lobsters!!

 

[Defenderofgrace]

have you even noticed that those who believe that salvation is losable and forfeitable, somehow believe that they are somehow eternally secured and sealed toward heaven onto the day of redemption?

as if they are a living counterexample against their own claim that OSAS is false