Not By Works

[Macabeus]

There is no time restraint on the following verse.........

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

Who said anything about a time restraint? STRAWMAN!

1 John 3:11-19We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassionfrom him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

a. We know that we have passed from death unto life because we love the brethren.
b. Biblical love is love in deeds, not just in word. ie Good works
c. Hereby (by our love) we know that we are of the truth

 

[Macabeus]

No it wasn't deceiver.......I made a plain and clear blanket statement about what JESUS, PAUL and the bible teaches....YOU took it and embellished it to accuse me of applying it to JOHN....

I thought we were going to stop throwing temper tantrums. Back to name calling

You took something that Paul said and Jesus said and put it into a text that was not talking about that particular thing. Do you interpret every text in the bible to be about two natures of believers?

You used the Pauline teaching of two natures as an interpretive key and said that was what John was talking about, and it wasn't

 

[dcontroversal]

It was a rhetorical device to alert you to the fact that you were bringing in concepts from other scriptures that are NOT FOUND in the text we were discussing. It went right over your head, just like 1 John 3 does.

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA Rhetorical.....man you take the cake for a fraud...NO...you took what I said and embellished it and applied it in a man I never said nor implied.....keep being dishonest......

 

[dcontroversal]

Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....

MY original quote above....SHOW where I applied it to JOHN....

 

[dcontroversal]

Yeah sure. Let's take what Paul said in Romans and Galatians and transpose it onto 1 John 3. Let's follow that through and walk through the text that way and see what we get

The new nature that abideth in him sinneth not: the flesh hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you. The new nature that practices righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 The flesh that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9. The new nature that is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and the new nature cannot sin, because the new nature is born of God.
10 In this the new nature is manifest, and the flesh is manifest, the flesh that doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.



IT IS EVIDENT THAT 1 John 3:6-10 ARE talking about two different groups of people, Those who are born of God and those that are not. YOU do GREAT VIOLENCE to the text by making them all refer to two natures of believer, and even greater violence by making one of them refer to two natures and the rest referring to two groups of people, because then, you are breaking just about every rule of interpretation on the face of the earth.

See how much of a liar and deceiver you are...I never mentioned Galatians and or John.......

dcontroversal said:
Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....and like I said you must be dense.....the quote contradicts the NEW nature against the FLESH....go away deceiver.....or get right

 

[Macabeus]

MY original quote above....SHOW where I applied it to JOHN....

1 John 3:6-7 is not talking about two natures in the believer, one sinning and the other righteous. It is talking about people who are born of God and people who are not born of God. Anyone who reads the whole chapter (and book) in it's context can see that, unless a person is reading their own ideas into the text.

Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....

I said 1 John 3:6-7 was not talking about two natures, and you threw a tantrum and said "pal, you have no idea what you are talking about."

 

[Macabeus]

See how much of a liar and deceiver you are...I never mentioned Galatians and or John.......

dcontroversal said:
Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....

That's where the teaching of the two natures is, at least partly. And you said the quote above in response to my saying that 1 John 3 was not talking about two natures. see post 101,626

 

[Macabeus]

1 John 3:6-7 is not talking about two natures in the believer, one sinning and the other righteous. It is talking about people who are born of God and people who are not born of God. Anyone who reads the whole chapter (and book) in it's context can see that, unless a person is reading their own ideas into the text.

 

[dcontroversal]

That's where the teaching of the two natures is, at least partly. And you said the quote above in response to my saying that 1 John 3 was not talking about two natures. see post 101,626

No need to waste my time on your blather.....you have not changed....still a deceiver, false and like to embellish or twist and falsely accuse.....even others read thru and said where did I apply it to John....only in your mind pal.....

 

[Macabeus]

MY original quote above....SHOW where I applied it to JOHN....

OK, let's read your quote in context.

1 John 3:6-7 is not talking about two natures in the believer, one sinning and the other righteous. It is talking about people who are born of God and people who are not born of God. Anyone who reads the whole chapter (and book) in it's context can see that, unless a person is reading their own ideas into the text.

Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....

 

[Macabeus]

No need to waste my time on your blather.....you have not changed....still a deceiver, false and like to embellish or twist and falsely accuse.....even other s red thru and said where did I apply it to John....only in your mind pal.....

Throwing temper tantrums again. You should read VCO's post from earlier

Look at all the name calling VCO and BillG

 

[Macabeus]

A message from VCO for DC

I am not sure what has caused this bickering, but you ALL are playing into the hands of the Devil himself.

Please Calm down everyone, I think this is a classic misunderstanding, that has resulted from a slight difference in terminology.

Here is a better way to put the Two Natures that Paul is describing in ROMANS Chapter 7, and 1 John 3:6-10.


Romans 7:25 (HCSB)
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with my mind I myself am a slave to the law of God, but with my flesh, to the law of sin.

Therefore since GOD IS THE AUTHOR that INSPIRED both Rom. 7 and 1 John 3:6-10, HE CANNOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF. Therefore look for the common ground, and you will discover the TRUTH in what HE says.

In 1 John 3:6-10, we find that HE is not talking about the PERFECTION of the WALK, but the DIRECTION OF ONE'S WALK.

I am not a big fan of the Amplified Version, but here the verses make it Perfectly CLEAR that it is talking about the Direction of One's Walk in Christ.

1 John 3:9-10 (AMP)
9 No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God's nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.
10 By this it is made clear who take their nature from God and are His children and who take their nature from the devil and are his children: no one who does not practice righteousness [who does not conform to God's will in purpose, thought, and action] is of God; neither is anyone who does not love his brother (his fellow believer in Christ).

YOU will Strive to WALK as HE did, Toward the GOD of RIGHTEOUS, and when we Fail, we WILL automatically Confess it AS SIN,
as stated 1 John 1:9, AND GET RIGHT BACK UP AND CONTINUE IN DIRECTION OF GOD'S WILL. HOWEVER, we will never allow it to become a habitual sin, as we will develop a self-disciplining attitude in ourselves. No we will not be perfect, but we will strive towards that DIRECTION .


Now something that almost everyone has turned a blind eye to, that get's in a HEATED Name Calling DEBATE. We are to be examples for the Younger Brethren, who do not even think they know enough about the BIBLE, to POST. I try to remember that for every thread post, there will be as many as 7 people READ IT, that NEVER POST. AND These are the ones that can be swayed NEGATIVELY by a hasty remark in a Heated Debate.

PLEASE THINK ABOUT IT.

 

[Macabeus]

1 John 3:6-7 is not talking about two natures in the believer, one sinning and the other righteous. It is talking about people who are born of God and people who are not born of God. Anyone who reads the whole chapter (and book) in it's context can see that, unless a person is reading their own ideas into the text.

Pal....you have no idea and exactly why MOST have you on ignore...your drivel and bather = deceit....PAUL was clear, so was JESUS.....the bible is replete of the conflict between the two natures, you are just too dense to grasp it.....

 

[gb9]

gb9 said: in response

now, I see what you are saying here.

one of the things my church teaches that we are to do for others what God through Christ did for us.

we are to " one another one another", if that makes any sense...

in know what I said, and, while I did agree with you , I never trusted you, because I know you teach the lie of " saved by grace, kept and/or proven by works".

what I said here is what Christ followers are supposed to do. my church does teach this, but, here is what you legal eagles get wrong, doing it or not doing have 0 to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

if what one does or does not do has any bearing on one's salvation, then it becomes of one's self.

* not of yourself, a gift of God.

 

[Macabeus]

in know what I said, and, while I did agree with you , I never trusted you, because I know you teach the lie of " saved by grace, kept and/or proven by works".

what I said here is what Christ followers are supposed to do. my church does teach this, but, here is what you legal eagles get wrong, doing it or not doing have 0 to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

Never said it had anything to do with salvation. I merely stated that those who are born of God will have the characteristics that John lists in his First Epistle.

And we do not work to be saved. We work because we are saved and out of love and gratitude.

I'm sorry, but I believe what the Bible says about believers. Including what 1 John 3:7 says.

 

[Macabeus]

in know what I said, and, while I did agree with you , I never trusted you, because I know you teach the lie of " saved by grace, kept and/or proven by works".

what I said here is what Christ followers are supposed to do. my church does teach this, but, here is what you legal eagles get wrong, doing it or not doing have 0 to do with salvation through faith in Christ.

if what one does or does not do has any bearing on one's salvation, then it becomes of one's self.

* not of yourself, a gift of God.

So you say if what one does or does not do has any bearing on one's salvation, then it becomes of one's self.

SO who believes, puts faith in Jesus for you? You, God, or someone else.

The only way you can give a consistent answer is to say that we believe because God does a work in our heart monergistically before we believe. But I am pretty sure you're not going to say that, though I would

You borrowed a concept ("what one does does not have bearing on one's salvation") that does not fit your theology, (it fits mine like a glove) That is called inconsistency

It does not fit your theology, because I am pretty sure you would answer YES to the question "Is believing on Jesus something WE DO?"

and you would say is faith necessary for salvation.

Yet you say that our salvation is not based on anything we do. But back to the fact that believing the gospel is something we do

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Job 9:20
Even if I were righteous, my mouth would condemn me; if I were blameless, it would declare me guilty.

 

[dcontroversal]

Job 9:20
Even if I were righteous, my mouth would condemn me; if I were blameless, it would declare me guilty.

Amen to that.............

 

[dcontroversal]

For the workers for....and those that state works are necessary for salvation

But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

 

[Macabeus]

Job 9:20
Even if I were righteous, my mouth would condemn me; if I were blameless, it would declare me guilty.

LUKE 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.