Not By Works
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My goodness, look how confused DC and Undergrace are, agreeing with this post. 
Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, (notice the tense)yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were [e]delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, (notice the tense)you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, (notice the tense)yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were [e]delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness [f]for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, (notice the tense)you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the [h]gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
Romans 6:22- Romans 6:22- 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
Romans 6: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Romans 6:22- Romans 6:22- 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit [g]to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
Romans 6: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Budman do you think this is related to a belief in the doctrine of the "perseverance of the saints"
It seems that their assurance of salvation is bound up in the fact that they preserver?
But I would say we should not use ourselves and our fruit as a measure of salvation but rather the promises of God?
I worry because I have dialogued with a few people who have come under the heavy weight of this doctrine.
It seems that their assurance of salvation is bound up in the fact that they preserver?
But I would say we should not use ourselves and our fruit as a measure of salvation but rather the promises of God?
I worry because I have dialogued with a few people who have come under the heavy weight of this doctrine.
Here is what the doctrine holds...
They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved. Westminster Confession of Faith
Did Christ finish his work for us? Then … he will also finish his work in us. John Flavel
God, by the exercise of his grace . . . infallibly prevents even the weakest saint from final apostasy. Loraine Boettner
The saints’ persevering in a way of holiness unto glory is … the fruit of electing love. Jonathan Edwards
God hath given this charge to Christ, that whomsoever he elected, Christ should preserve them safe, to bring them to heaven. Christopher Love
I know that ANYONE that believes they keep themselves saved are deluded and ignorant of the truth....
The following is a comparison between the bible and salvation losers......and make no mistake...this is exactly what they peddle and or how they butcher the word of God by their losable salvation....
Bible --> I will never leave thee or forsake thee
Salvation Losers ---->Jesus is a liar and will leave us and forsake us
Bible --->We are saved to the uttermost and kept by the power of God through faith
Salvation losers --->The power of God is weak and inept, we are not saved to the uttermost and GOD does not keep us
Bible -->Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Salvation losers ---> WE must maintain our faith because JESUS does not finish and complete the work of faith in us
Bible --> He that believes on the SON is having everlasting/eternal life
Salvation losers --->He that believes and MAINTAINS his belief on the SON is having temporal life based upon what he does or does not do
Bible --> Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Salvation losers -->James out of context tells us we are justified by our works before God
Bible -->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Salvation losers --->It pleased God by works, church membership, baptism, pew jumping, speaking in tongues, back flipping down the isle, saying 57 hail Mary's, taking the Lord's supper, keeping the sacraments and a dozen other religiously zealous man made efforts to save them
Bible -->NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
Salvation losers -->Numerous things can separate us from the love of GOD
Bible--->We are in the Son's hand, the Father's hand and NO AN can remove us from that position
Salvation losers -->The above is false, we can remove ourselves because God is weak and inept
Bible -->We are sealed unto the day of redemption
Salvation losers-->The seal of God can be broken because God is weak and inept
Bible --->Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more
Salvation losers--> We qualify, quantify sin and God's grace only covers those small sins when we mess up and for sure we have never lost it, but eternal security believers lose it because they believe they can live any way they want and live like the devil
Bible --->He that believes on the Son is not condemned
Salvation losers --> Believers are condemned all the time and returned to being goats after becoming sheep
Bible --> I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day
Salvation losers -->God loses people all the time because he is too weak to keep them saved
Bible--> We are born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Salvation losers --> We are not born of incorruptible seed, because that seed can be corrupted and one die lost after being born again
Bible --> The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable
Salvation losers -->God's free GIFT of salvation can be revoked because GOD will break ALL the above promises and send one to hell after being saved
ETC.............I dare to say that salvation losers are false.....and what they peddle is not of GOD and as blasphemous as it comes......the above is a SMALL sample of scriptural promises that MUST BE DENIED, REJECTED and or SWEPT UNDER THE TABLE to peddle a dime store salvation that cannot be found in the bible and or a dime store salvation that devalues the work, promises and ministry of CHRIST!!!!!!!
The following is a comparison between the bible and salvation losers......and make no mistake...this is exactly what they peddle and or how they butcher the word of God by their losable salvation....
Bible --> I will never leave thee or forsake thee
Salvation Losers ---->Jesus is a liar and will leave us and forsake us
Bible --->We are saved to the uttermost and kept by the power of God through faith
Salvation losers --->The power of God is weak and inept, we are not saved to the uttermost and GOD does not keep us
Bible -->Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith in us
Salvation losers ---> WE must maintain our faith because JESUS does not finish and complete the work of faith in us
Bible --> He that believes on the SON is having everlasting/eternal life
Salvation losers --->He that believes and MAINTAINS his belief on the SON is having temporal life based upon what he does or does not do
Bible --> Therefore we conclude a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law
Salvation losers -->James out of context tells us we are justified by our works before God
Bible -->It pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
Salvation losers --->It pleased God by works, church membership, baptism, pew jumping, speaking in tongues, back flipping down the isle, saying 57 hail Mary's, taking the Lord's supper, keeping the sacraments and a dozen other religiously zealous man made efforts to save them
Bible -->NOTHING can separate us from the love of GOD
Salvation losers -->Numerous things can separate us from the love of GOD
Bible--->We are in the Son's hand, the Father's hand and NO AN can remove us from that position
Salvation losers -->The above is false, we can remove ourselves because God is weak and inept
Bible -->We are sealed unto the day of redemption
Salvation losers-->The seal of God can be broken because God is weak and inept
Bible --->Where sin abounds, grace abounds the more
Salvation losers--> We qualify, quantify sin and God's grace only covers those small sins when we mess up and for sure we have never lost it, but eternal security believers lose it because they believe they can live any way they want and live like the devil
Bible --->He that believes on the Son is not condemned
Salvation losers --> Believers are condemned all the time and returned to being goats after becoming sheep
Bible --> I will lose nothing, but raise it up the last day
Salvation losers -->God loses people all the time because he is too weak to keep them saved
Bible--> We are born again from above by INCORRUPTIBLE SEED
Salvation losers --> We are not born of incorruptible seed, because that seed can be corrupted and one die lost after being born again
Bible --> The gifts and calling of God are irrevocable
Salvation losers -->God's free GIFT of salvation can be revoked because GOD will break ALL the above promises and send one to hell after being saved
ETC.............I dare to say that salvation losers are false.....and what they peddle is not of GOD and as blasphemous as it comes......the above is a SMALL sample of scriptural promises that MUST BE DENIED, REJECTED and or SWEPT UNDER THE TABLE to peddle a dime store salvation that cannot be found in the bible and or a dime store salvation that devalues the work, promises and ministry of CHRIST!!!!!!!
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Is it impossible....JESUS said he will LOSE nothing, but raise it the last day....HE also states that he will FINISH and COMPLETE the work of faith he begins in us.......
So, by deductive reasoning.....If he begins a work of faith in someone and they have been saved he will NOT LOSE them and will finish what he started.....and not to mention we are KEPT by the power of GOD........these salvation losers must serve a weak, inept, lying false god that cannot keep them saved......
So, by deductive reasoning.....If he begins a work of faith in someone and they have been saved he will NOT LOSE them and will finish what he started.....and not to mention we are KEPT by the power of GOD........these salvation losers must serve a weak, inept, lying false god that cannot keep them saved......
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Imagine this, people brought up in the church but never believing or knowing Jesus.
I have met people like this and they will claim all the promises above but have never started.
Now how will the Lord distinguish between the deluded and the faithful.
The deluded are not full of the Holy Spirit, but are full of the church social spirit.
Some even as atheists love church so much they will preach sermons and act as ministers.
So make no mistake, those who claim much do not necessarily have anything.
Jesus says simply, those who love Him obey Him.
John says we know we know Jesus because we obey Him.
So if a man teaches yet preaches disobedience, sin and walking under ones own light is acceptable,
why should we believe he knows the Lord at all?
I have met people like this and they will claim all the promises above but have never started.
Now how will the Lord distinguish between the deluded and the faithful.
The deluded are not full of the Holy Spirit, but are full of the church social spirit.
Some even as atheists love church so much they will preach sermons and act as ministers.
So make no mistake, those who claim much do not necessarily have anything.
Jesus says simply, those who love Him obey Him.
John says we know we know Jesus because we obey Him.
So if a man teaches yet preaches disobedience, sin and walking under ones own light is acceptable,
why should we believe he knows the Lord at all?
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The doctrine of "no salvation losers" is saying morality has no eternal consequences.
As a believe who sincerely knows sin kills and destroys, believer and unbeliever alike, to preach do not stress
about sin and your walk, is death.
It is like going into a kitchen, turning on the gas and smoking a cigerate. It is just a question of time when
the house explodes, not if it explodes. Such behaviour we are told is the enemy of the gospel.
So bad is sinful behaviour, it is to be confronted, and if not repented of, that person is to be excluded from
the fellowship and dealt with as if they are an unbeliever.
So such teaching and living is the opposite of the Kingdom and the gospel. There is no compromise with
sin. You would not sit next to a murderer who carried a knife, and had no desire to stop killing people.
So it is with those who sin and refuse to repent of their sin.
As a believe who sincerely knows sin kills and destroys, believer and unbeliever alike, to preach do not stress
about sin and your walk, is death.
It is like going into a kitchen, turning on the gas and smoking a cigerate. It is just a question of time when
the house explodes, not if it explodes. Such behaviour we are told is the enemy of the gospel.
So bad is sinful behaviour, it is to be confronted, and if not repented of, that person is to be excluded from
the fellowship and dealt with as if they are an unbeliever.
So such teaching and living is the opposite of the Kingdom and the gospel. There is no compromise with
sin. You would not sit next to a murderer who carried a knife, and had no desire to stop killing people.
So it is with those who sin and refuse to repent of their sin.
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im listening to calvinism vs open theism debate and it made me think why pray of someone's salvation ever? these men ruled out each other's prayers.
the open theist said why pray if God has already knows who will be saved anyway.
the calvinist said why pray if God is already drawing all men and people have free will to reject or not.
its true. praying for other people makes no sense. either God decreed/knows who will accept, and that number is set in eternity or people have free will and you should be praying to that person to change his mind and not God, God has already sent His spirit to convict the world of sin of unbelief, and is drawing them what more can be done?
can someone tell me if there is a third way?
the open theist said why pray if God has already knows who will be saved anyway.
the calvinist said why pray if God is already drawing all men and people have free will to reject or not.
its true. praying for other people makes no sense. either God decreed/knows who will accept, and that number is set in eternity or people have free will and you should be praying to that person to change his mind and not God, God has already sent His spirit to convict the world of sin of unbelief, and is drawing them what more can be done?
can someone tell me if there is a third way?
