Not By Works
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Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God
We are not born of God because we love. We love because we are born of God.
For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.
We are not born of God because we overcome the world, we overcome the world because we are born of God.
We are not born of God because we love. We love because we are born of God.
For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.
We are not born of God because we overcome the world, we overcome the world because we are born of God.
I agree. BTW, I did admit I might be in error on 1 John 5:1, but isn't there a similar construction is used in 1 John 4:7 that may support the interpretation I gave of 1 John 5:1? But then, the second half of 5:1 supports your interpretation, so I will cede the point. Unlike some, I am not too proud to admit that I may be or am wrong.
On further thought...
Then again, the text does have
a. born of God perfect tense, passive, participle
b. and the believing as present tense.
Isn't perfect tense "born of God" indicating a past action (from the perspective of the writer and recipients) with continuing results? and a present tense verb (to believe) is a verb that was present at the time that the epistle was written.
That is continuing faith as far as I can tell. The born of God was a past action, passive, verb with continuing results and the belief is a present tense participle. Meaning that they are believing at the time the epistle was written, but they were born of God at some time in the past with continuing results. No matter how you slice it, that is continuing faith.
Then again, the text does have
a. born of God perfect tense, passive, participle
b. and the believing as present tense.
Isn't perfect tense "born of God" indicating a past action (from the perspective of the writer and recipients) with continuing results? and a present tense verb (to believe) is a verb that was present at the time that the epistle was written.
That is continuing faith as far as I can tell. The born of God was a past action, passive, verb with continuing results and the belief is a present tense participle. Meaning that they are believing at the time the epistle was written, but they were born of God at some time in the past with continuing results. No matter how you slice it, that is continuing faith.
Now we are getting somewhere - but somehow it seems to me you have an agenda of something you are trying to prove - and I am not sure what it is?? (but maybe I am misreading you . . . LOL)
so we go on to another text . . .
I John 3:9 - KJV
Whosoever is born (perfect tense) of God doth not commit (present tense) sin; for his seed remaineth (present tense) in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Taking the first part of the verse and expanding the meaning of the Greek tenses we get:
The one who has been born out of God with ongoing results does not keep on committing sin, for his (presumably this means God's) seed is remaining in him, . . .
And you asked: Does God's seed remain in those who are born of Him? The text does not answer your question: It simply says that the one who has been born out of God with ongoing results . . . has the seed of God continuing to remain in him.
You can presume that the text can be extrapolated to mean that this seed of God will always remain in this person, but that is not what the text says. Or, you can presume that the text can be extrapolated to mean that the one born out of God will always be born out of God, but the text does not say that.
so we go on to another text . . .
I John 3:9 - KJV
Whosoever is born (perfect tense) of God doth not commit (present tense) sin; for his seed remaineth (present tense) in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Taking the first part of the verse and expanding the meaning of the Greek tenses we get:
The one who has been born out of God with ongoing results does not keep on committing sin, for his (presumably this means God's) seed is remaining in him, . . .
And you asked: Does God's seed remain in those who are born of Him? The text does not answer your question: It simply says that the one who has been born out of God with ongoing results . . . has the seed of God continuing to remain in him.
You can presume that the text can be extrapolated to mean that this seed of God will always remain in this person, but that is not what the text says. Or, you can presume that the text can be extrapolated to mean that the one born out of God will always be born out of God, but the text does not say that.
Ah, Ah, Ah! Please do not make me laugh so hard - I am not denying faith is to be continuing - I am just trying to let Scripture say what it says without adding my own (or Macabeus' 
) doctrine to it!
) doctrine to it!
But the fact that the participle Believe is present tense and the verb born is perfect indicates that the believing is continual. What I am saying is the perfect tense born and the present tense believe means Paul is looking at the New Birth as a past action and the faith as a present action. Continuing faith.
There you go again . . . another rhetorical question!! Drop the rhetorical questions and just let the text speak for itself.
The one who has been out of God (with ongoing results) does not keep on sinning because God's seed is remaining in Him.
There you have it! what the text says - If you want the text to say that the one born out of God will always have God's seed in Him, you need to find one that says that!
I presume you are trying to read the doctrine of "eternal security" into the text - I don't know because I don't know you well enough. But please do not read the doctrine into texts, just find a verse that states the doctrine clearly then you have it straight from Scripture! LOL!
The one who has been out of God (with ongoing results) does not keep on sinning because God's seed is remaining in Him.
There you have it! what the text says - If you want the text to say that the one born out of God will always have God's seed in Him, you need to find one that says that!
I presume you are trying to read the doctrine of "eternal security" into the text - I don't know because I don't know you well enough. But please do not read the doctrine into texts, just find a verse that states the doctrine clearly then you have it straight from Scripture! LOL!
DO you see what I am saying in post 96,612?
Born of God- Perfect tense- Paul is viewing it as a past action with ongoing results.
believe- present tense- Paul is viewing the verb as presently active.
Does this not indicate that Paul was speaking of continuing faith, at least continuing to the present?
Born of God- Perfect tense- Paul is viewing it as a past action with ongoing results.
believe- present tense- Paul is viewing the verb as presently active.
Does this not indicate that Paul was speaking of continuing faith, at least continuing to the present?
No question. The text says the seed remains in the one who is born of God. It's right there
...and again, the verb born of God is a past action verb and the participle believe is present tense. Paul is viewing the verb "born" as past tense, it is passive, because it is an act wrought by God, and the participle believe is in the present tense, which means they are presently believing.
whoever is believing has been born of God (past tense action with continuing results)
...and again, the verb born of God is a past action verb and the participle believe is present tense. Paul is viewing the verb "born" as past tense, it is passive, because it is an act wrought by God, and the participle believe is in the present tense, which means they are presently believing.
whoever is believing has been born of God (past tense action with continuing results)
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Did you guys see that seed is the Greek word sperma? I'm not trying to be funny, but born again can also be begotten. And the destination within our whole body of that seed is our spirit. We are begotten of God. That alone should give us pause to consider our walk. And our actions.
Our souls and even our body should come into Oneness with who we are in our Spirit.
Taking a cue from Jesus...we should be saying what we hear, and doing what we see.
Simple Word.
Our souls and even our body should come into Oneness with who we are in our Spirit.
Taking a cue from Jesus...we should be saying what we hear, and doing what we see.
Simple Word.
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