Not By Works

Macabeus · Apr 5, 2019

gb9 said:

No Jesus was not talking about root vegetables. How long does it take wheat or barley to grow?

...and you want a judgement. You fail to demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit in your posts. Maybe you should mature a little before you discuss the Bible. I do think what DC said applies to some people. I just said it does not NECESSARILY applied to all. DC made a universal statement about there needing to be a period of growth and maturity. I said it was universally necessary.

Macabeus · Apr 5, 2019

Sorry, I typed in the wrong place here.

gb9 · Apr 5, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Foolishness - earning salvation or working salvation out

12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling
13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.
Phil 2:12-13

God desires righteous walking and doing His will.
Read every page of scripture, God creates a good work and men destroy, distort
and rebel against it.

And the solution is the cross, repentance and knowing the cross in our hearts.
We are not static, we are fluid because we have nothing to protect or be scared of.

Because Jesus has healed us, He has shown us where His heart lies, the heart of the
creator, so their is nothing to fear. We are on an adventure to discover His grace, His
love, His forgiveness, His power to overcome and walk in His ways.

Our hurt and conflict within, are the things that need changing, to listen and work with.
It is His word that comes us shows us where we need to move and grow in.

There will always be liars, cheats and sloths who just say give up, rest in your sin and
lostness, because that is our only hope, while they are literally dying in the sin they
dwell within.

you your self said that your aim is to keep the instructions on the Sermon on the Mount, yet you at times fall short of hat goal>

that is called sin- missing the mark, falling short of a standard, knowing to do good and not doing so...

and, that is not dooming anything, it is calling sin what it is, something you refuse to do....

gb9 · Apr 5, 2019

Macabeus said:

" bout 6- months for it to grow.

so, a believer has 6-7 months to get sanctified?? then what.

once again, you and you time obsession..... just judging and sinning away, not even caring

Macabeus · Apr 5, 2019

gb9 said:

Who said anything about sanctification? We're talking about fruit here. DId it take you years of growth and maturity to bear ANY fruit.

I think you are failing to show maturity in your name calling. But I imagine you bear some fruit, if you are a true believer.

And you say I'm sinning for disagreeing with DC and GB9. What do you make yourselves to be, mighty apostles

Saying I am sinning by disagreeing with an absurd statement that a period of growth and maturity for a believer to bear ANY fruit is judgemental on your part.

You are the one guilty of judging. Anyone who disagrees with you is sinning. LOL

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

Macabeus said:

These guys are free grace believers.
They are following their theology which gives them the fruit they are expressing.

What is obvious, is they expect others who see things differently are just going to agree
with them, rather than express a different perspective. It creates this unusual discussion
or disputing, where they are attempting to "convert" others to their way.

They do not see I once was a sinner but now am a saint, and know the price I have paid
and would pay it every time. Because they have never paid the price, which their faith
demonstrates, they do not know the change or how it makes you somebody different.

gb9 said I should join them as sinners pointing to Christ, which he believes is the only
honest position. The problem is that is just making an encampment outside the
gates of heaven and never believing you are qualified to enter in.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

gb9 said:

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Rom 10:9-10

These verses answer the point. Confession leads to salvation, the fruit of the heart change.

mailmandan · Apr 5, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

gb9 said:

You are a true legalist.
You describe God as one who has a check sheet of success and failure.
It has always been about love and loyalty. Love and loyalty to God and righteousness above
anything else.

Because we know God loves us, and will help us if we walk in the light, with an open heart
we can do this, and know the pain, accept the loss and be overcomers in love.

Now I can testify how true this is. Taking that which you hold most dear putting it out there
to be dismissed and ridiculed is the gospel. Love despite pain, love despite rejection, love
no matter what those possessed by sin and evil do, that is God.

But we can reject the way because failure and hurt is too difficult for us, and we are too
damaged to let God in. But God declares no one is too far gone, and He will heal and
save all who call upon Him. Thank you Jesus.

dcontroversal · Apr 5, 2019

blue_ladybug said:

Morning Blue...1015 Friday Night in AU...just watched a game of Rugby...Penrith Panthers played the Tigers.....hahah

dcontroversal · Apr 5, 2019

gb9 said:

Hahahhahaah love it......In his world of Chia pets and Mc Doubles.....he peddles insta fruit...!!!

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

mailmandan said:

I find it interesting you want to put the two together.
So faith in ones heart has the action confession together to make one saved.
So you agree faith alone does not save, it need works, the confession to show it is real.

Thank you brother. You cannot go against scripture, if you follow it is will always show
you the truth.

gb9 · Apr 5, 2019

Macabeus said:

so, now we are off grains and back to fruit.

o.k., if you plant grape seeds now, today, you will not have grapes this year, maybe next year, depending on the weather.

if you plant a young vine, you might have grapes this fall.

either way, if you plant today, you will harvest nothing tomorrow...

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

Fruit inspectors

This phrase is used by some is a derogatory way. Paul uses fruit as proof of true change.

9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Rom 10:9-10

Secondly Paul preached and wanted to see the fruit of repentance in the believers lives

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
Acts 26:20

John the baptist criticised the teachers of the law wanting baptism without repentance

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?
8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.
Matt 3:7-8

So clearly showing the truth of a change within us is important to show it in our lives or
be deceived that anything at all has happened.

mailmandan · Apr 5, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

The moment that we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Ephesians 2:8) we are saved. Confession is an expression of faith, not a work for salvation. I've heard people who teach salvation by faith + works misinterpret Romans 10:9,10 in such a way to mean that we believe unto righteousness today (but are still lost and will remain lost) until we verbally confess Christ (which may be next week) and then we are finally saved next week, but that is not what Paul is talking about here. Also, someone who is moot (unable to speak) would remain lost according to that erroneous interpretation of Romans 10:9,10 for failing to "verbally confess with their mouth."

1 Corinthians 12:3 - Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. There is divine influence or direct operation of the Holy Spirit in the heart of a person when confessing that Jesus is Lord. This confession is not just a simple acknowledgment that Jesus is the Lord (even the demons believe and acknowledge that) but is a deep personal heart conviction that Jesus is that person's Lord and Savior. So simply believing in our head (and not in our heart) that God raised Him from the dead does not result in righteousness and simply giving lip service to the words "Jesus is Lord" not by the Holy Spirit is not unto salvation.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

mailmandan said:

There is a simple issue here. Until there is an outworking of faith, it is just something one
holds inside without expression.

This is as valuable as the cross, as suffering sinful man and declaring with everything openly
And the Lord of all is meant to take seriously none expressed faith with total physical transformation
and eternal life, a life declared in righteousness and love. Really? You can compare the two.

God help all who think this is worthy of the King.

mailmandan · Apr 5, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

Yet authentic faith that saves is not simply held inside. As we read in Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach).

You sound like a philosopher who is trying to make sense of God's word.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

mailmandan said:

It is an interesting idea, I am being a philosopher trying to make sense of God's word.
No I am a redeemed saint shouting His love and grace, His power to overcome, to reign in
our hearts and souls, find victory, to reach out and change us completely, reading of
defeated, scared, defeated individuals who give in to frustration, anger, selfishness as if
this is the promise of the cross.

The reason people are like frozen popsicals is because they have such a history of
unresolved conflicts and emotions, it holds them prisoner like a vice, where any movement
is painful, any statement of meaning or love is not allowed, where to be vulnerable is to
be jumped on and crushed. A child just says, Amen thank you Jesus, You are our Lord and
I will follow wherever you lead, because I trust you completely. Amen

I see what Jesus means by

He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor
Luke 4:18-19

Our past says say and do this and you will be punished and hurt.
Express yourself like this and all will go wrong

Jesus simply says, no walk in my love and will, Amen.
He is the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings Amen

mailmandan · Apr 5, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

It is an interesting idea, I am being a philosopher trying to make sense of God's word.
No I am a redeemed saint shouting His love and grace, His power to overcome, to reign in
our hearts and souls, find victory, to reach out and change us completely, reading of
defeated, scared, defeated individuals who give in to frustration, anger, selfishness as if
this is the promise of the cross.

The reason people are like frozen popsicals is because they have such a history of
unresolved conflicts and emotions, it holds them prisoner like a vice, where any movement
is painful, any statement of meaning or love is not allowed, where to be vulnerable is to
be jumped on and crushed. A child just says, Amen thank you Jesus, You are our Lord and
I will follow wherever you lead, because I trust you completely. Amen

I see what Jesus means by

He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor
Luke 4:18-19

Our past says say and do this and you will be punished and hurt.
Express yourself like this and all will go wrong

Jesus simply says, no walk in my love and will, Amen.
He is the Lord of Lords, the King of Kings Amen

Like I said. You sound like a philosopher who is trying to make sense of God's word.

FollowHisSteps · Apr 5, 2019

mailmandan said:

The great thing about revelation, to one it is the Holy Spirit speaking, to another it
is something not important, just superficial ideas.

I was sharing with a brother a few days ago, and it came to me, hearts of stone turned
into hearts of flesh. Soft hearts are willing to learn and change, these are the hearts
of Gods people, while those who stay held and unchanging are lost in the hurt and pain
of their past and dare not change because their hearts will fall apart and cause too much
chaos in their lives.

It is why so much one shares in the Lord will bounce off the hard hearted because nothing
echoes in them, which is the main way we as humans empathise and make bonds.

So my friend as nothing I shared seems to connect, I do not expect this to either, but for
some these are the words of life, Jesus at work within us, Thank you Jesus, Amen

Not By Works

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