Not By Works

FollowHisSteps · Mar 26, 2019

I hope you can stay with me in the argument.
I come to faith, I know Jesus, I am forgiven, everything is fine.
The world is painted that all sin is resolved and the question is just do you believe in Jesus, or not.
So a binary choice. And then it is asked what is true faith and what is false faith.

The false faith people believe they earn salvation, or do anything worthy. So you work out who these
evil people are by testing them, do they pass this test to value good deeds. If they fail they are false faith people.

So a whole group of people enter the world saying false faith is believing you do anything worthy.
Such false faith people should then be identified and thrown out of the church as heretical, evil deceivers.

Now your question is, is the criteria on assurance of salvation on doing good works? I am saying to this
group it is irrelevant to them, any statement of doing anything righteous or worthy is detracting from Christ.

So anyone following a Holiness walk theology is therefore evil, along with 99% of the christian church.
It is why to see as they see you have to get into their language and definitions and see how it works out
in their condemnation. It is why to them I am evil while just pursuing righteousness as Jesus calls us to do.

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

"obeyed" [kjv] used here - Acts 5:36 [blb] -

"For before these days, Theudas rose up, affirming himself to be somebody--to whom a number of men, about four hundred, were joined--who was put to death, and all, as many as were persuaded by [/"obeyed" kjv - G3982 - epeithonto / peitho] him, were dispersed; and it came to nothing."

G3982 also found in:

--Matthew 27:43 "He [Jesus] trusted [in God]"

--Luke 16:31 "be persuaded"

--Acts 17:4 "believed"

--Acts 18:4 "persuaded"

--Acts 19:8 "persuading"

--Acts 28:23-24 "persuading"

What in the world do you think you are doing?

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

dcontroversal said:

Being saved happens and immediately things happened. The person received the Holy Spirit, was reconciled to God and saved, was washed clean, made perfect and holy, was given the righteousness of God, and was justified, and sanctified, and more.

FollowHisSteps · Mar 26, 2019

False faith people label

Those who believe in false faith labelling will say, we are just exposing you, so do not complain that
we are bringing out your position.

It is strange because only they know what they mean because it only speaks to their theology.
It is also clear many do not know what they are referring to and go along with the language as
if it is traditional theology and Nazarene church theology, when actually they are the heretics.

I do wonder though at the logic at play. In the end it will always work out, because scripture
is so clear, and expresses the same truths time and time again from multiple angles, but it
takes time and dwelling in the word and Christ to bring this out.

And His sheep, listen to His voice and follow Him. So Amen to the Lord and Amen to His light
that shines night and day, in every circumstance and every way.

mailmandan · Mar 26, 2019

Argueless said:

So why don't you give us a list of people from these discussions who are servants of God and who are not..who are righteous and who are wicked, even though that judgment call is well above your paygrade.

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

dcontroversal said:

You don't even know that we have to repent of our sins to get saved, and you want to give your opinion on things of God?

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 26, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

[on verse 27] "...the blessed legacy: “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you.” It is not peace with God, but the peace of Himself which He has left us. And that peace will ever be enjoyed if we believe and obey His words." - Gaebelein, John 14 Commentary

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

So how are you saved if something worse happened to you?

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

It is to everyone.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 26, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

Awhile back in this thread, I showed the G543 word (now, a different one [G3982 - epeithonto / peitho ], what's the big deal??), and that word was:

"543 apeítheia (from 1 /A "not" and 3982 /peíthō, "persuaded") – properly, someone not persuaded, referring to their willful unbelief, i.e. the refusal to be convinced by God's voice. This is the core-meaning of the entire word-family: 543 (apeítheia), 544 (apeithéō), 545 (apeithḗs)."

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

I do not want to be included in the "we" thank you.
And YTG holds a view found in scripture, just like your own, founded on different interpretations.

So all this sentence is wrong. Is this how you witness to the King how asks us to be precise, caring
and careful?

It is slightly amusing if not serious, claiming you stand on facts, which are not clear for you personally
and desire to speak with authority. Is this how bible schools teach their graduates to behave?

I disagree that his beliefs are found in the scriptures.

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Then you don't know what grace is.

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Silly talk from men of your choice..."not peace with God, but peace of Himself".

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

TheDivineWatermark said:

Look at what has happened to you. You have fallen for the spirits of changing the meanings of words.

YourTruthGod · Mar 26, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

This is where theological discussion has to be done carefully.
Different individuals hold different views on sin, repentance, confession, restitution etc
Some are desiring to walk like Jesus, one step at a time.
Others have no aspirations and believe this is impossible and just heresy.

Some say no matter how people come to faith, they are saved which cannot be lost.
Their subsequent life style has no bearing on the truth of their faith, or matters.

In these discussions I have yet to meet someone doing good things to be saved.
I have seen people saying we cannot continue in sin and claim to know Jesus.

So we have a great spread of faith positions, polarised by certain individuals into simplistic
statements.

I have seen everyone say coming to faith in the cross of the forgiveness of sins is salvation.
It is though apparent some hate a righteous walk, so much as to claim anyone who talks
about such a thing is a "works salvationist". This is just a way of justifying easy believism
as a legitimate position which traditionally the church has rejected as heresy.

So we get people saying the Nazarene church is a godly place, yet if one shares their
doctrines of faith, one is deceived and going to hell.

This is a true disconnect with truth and theology. And it occurs when people have lost
the argument of theology but wish to stir up dissension to get people to see their way is
correct through taking positions and being abusive rather than openly showing where they are.

So I would suggest abuse is the real objective and generating anger and bitterness in people
against others, without any justification, other than the anger and bitterness that dwells within
them. This behaviour has been seen across churches, forums, and unconnected individuals.

So the true antidote is to walk like Jesus and love as He calls us to love.

What I am doing is good. Preaching the truth is good. It is from God.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 26, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

Okay, so you are saying that Paul did not mean to write, at the beginning of the Ephesians epistle, the following words:

"Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints being in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus"

...but that this was a letter intended [esp. in those words "OUR"/"TO US" in 6:12] to apply [in a primary sense] to all believers and unbelievers [or, even Christ-rejecters] alike??

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 26, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

In my other post, I supplied a listing of where the word is found, and in some verses it says "He [Jesus] trusted," in others it is translated "persuaded/persuading," and in yet others, it is translated as "believed"... are you suggesting that the list of verses showing that word is somehow inaccurate? How so? Which verse would you say is "correct" then??

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 26, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

So you do not believe what Jesus said later in their presence (at this same scene and time-slot), in His words in John 17:2,6 (speaking specifically of His disciples present with Him there in that setting and context)?? "Thine they were, and Thou gavest them [to] Me"

Wow.

FollowHisSteps · Mar 26, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

Hi YTG,

If you want to see what they hold to, you have to listen to their teachers.
Interestingly they are so afraid of talking about them and their theology, they dare not quote them here.
God bless you

Not By Works

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member