Not By Works
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I believe those passages of scripture, so your straw man argument does not hold up. True righteousness and holiness is not the fruit of self moral-reformation in place of regeneration.
1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 1:21 - For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 2:11 - For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
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...As far as the gospel is concerned, they are ENEMIES on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are IRREVOCABLE. Romans 11:28-29
Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5
...This is IRREVOCABLE.
But what did he say to the Gentiles?
...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24
God is the GREAT PROVIDER.
He GIVES and we RECEIVE.
Are all His GIFTS irrevocable? No.
I asked dcontroversial to show me a scripture where it says that SALVATION IS AN IRREVOCABLE GIFT but never got a verse or scripture which says so...
Maybe you'll be able to show us to cover-up for dcontroversial.
Thanks for posting the verses but i disagree with your remarks because it's your own opinion or pigment of your imagination suggesting that i have said or promote the idea.
Need to rest now.
Paul was talking here about GOD'S calling and gifts to Israel.
...the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Romans 9:4-5
...This is IRREVOCABLE.
But what did he say to the Gentiles?
...I am talking to you Gentiles. In as much as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, DO NOT BOAST OVER THOSE BRANCHES. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. DO NOT BE ARROGANT, BUT BE AFRAID. For if God did not spare the natural branches, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, PROVIDED that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! Romans 11:13-24
God is the GREAT PROVIDER.
He GIVES and we RECEIVE.
Are all His GIFTS irrevocable? No.
I asked dcontroversial to show me a scripture where it says that SALVATION IS AN IRREVOCABLE GIFT but never got a verse or scripture which says so...
Maybe you'll be able to show us to cover-up for dcontroversial.
Thanks for posting the verses but i disagree with your remarks because it's your own opinion or pigment of your imagination suggesting that i have said or promote the idea.
Need to rest now.
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p
So you are back to mid-trib? I will tell you why I think that is IMPOSSIBLE, because of certain facts. I think the term that we disagree on, is REVEALED. I do not think that means REVEALED to everybody. The majority of the world will be DECEIVED that he is a HERO for rescuing their Money and monetary system, sort of their Messiah for their MONEY. And as such they will worship him, the Antichrist. I think REVEALED means when CHRISTIANS will be able to RECOGNIZE him. That will be Shortly Before, or MONTHS Before, his Coronation Ceremony. AND I think His first order of Business will be the Peace Treaty with ISRAEL. THEN WE KNOW THERE WILL BE EXACTLY 7 YEARS LEFT, and HE WILL RULE PEACEFULLY FOR 3.5 YEARS, symbolized by the rider on a white horse of a Conqueror with a BOW and NO ARROWS, and I believe GOD IS ACCURATE to the DAY, that HE COMES INTO THE THIRD TEMPLE AND TAKES OVER, DEMANDING WORSHIP, OR BE BEHEADED.
Therefore LOTS OF PEOPLE at his CORONATION will be able to predict when that PEACE will END, 3.5 Years into his reign; which means THAT CANNOT be WHEN the Day or the Hour of the RAPTURE WILL HAPPEN; or anytime there after. It has to be BEFORE his CORONATION. ONLY PRE-TRIB FITS Both the NO ONE WILL KNOW THE DAY OR THE HOUR prophecy, AND REVEALING OF THE ANTICHRIST TO CHRISTIANS.
Some people think the Rider of the White Horse, in the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is CHRIST. IT IS NOT, IT IS THE ANTICHRIST, who conquers PEACEFULLY, the RIDER with a BOW and NO ARROWS.
So you are back to mid-trib? I will tell you why I think that is IMPOSSIBLE, because of certain facts. I think the term that we disagree on, is REVEALED. I do not think that means REVEALED to everybody. The majority of the world will be DECEIVED that he is a HERO for rescuing their Money and monetary system, sort of their Messiah for their MONEY. And as such they will worship him, the Antichrist. I think REVEALED means when CHRISTIANS will be able to RECOGNIZE him. That will be Shortly Before, or MONTHS Before, his Coronation Ceremony. AND I think His first order of Business will be the Peace Treaty with ISRAEL. THEN WE KNOW THERE WILL BE EXACTLY 7 YEARS LEFT, and HE WILL RULE PEACEFULLY FOR 3.5 YEARS, symbolized by the rider on a white horse of a Conqueror with a BOW and NO ARROWS, and I believe GOD IS ACCURATE to the DAY, that HE COMES INTO THE THIRD TEMPLE AND TAKES OVER, DEMANDING WORSHIP, OR BE BEHEADED.
Therefore LOTS OF PEOPLE at his CORONATION will be able to predict when that PEACE will END, 3.5 Years into his reign; which means THAT CANNOT be WHEN the Day or the Hour of the RAPTURE WILL HAPPEN; or anytime there after. It has to be BEFORE his CORONATION. ONLY PRE-TRIB FITS Both the NO ONE WILL KNOW THE DAY OR THE HOUR prophecy, AND REVEALING OF THE ANTICHRIST TO CHRISTIANS.
Some people think the Rider of the White Horse, in the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse is CHRIST. IT IS NOT, IT IS THE ANTICHRIST, who conquers PEACEFULLY, the RIDER with a BOW and NO ARROWS.
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Keep reading. Romans 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls).
So once again, it includes the people of Israel, but it doesn't stop there (Romans 11:11-12, 25-31). The special gifts of God, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1, 15-18; 6:23; 8:15,23, 29-39; 9:11; Ephesians 1:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4 etc..) are irrevocable, but you have your agenda to uphold.
Yes, God does give and we receive and God is not an Indian giver. Believers are sealed until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not get arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.
Now please show us using scripture where God's gifts, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1, 15-18; 6:23; 8:15,23, 29-39; 9:11; Ephesians 1:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4 etc..) are irrevocable.
So which GIFTS ARE irrevocable and which GIFTS are NOT irrevocable, according to your agenda? Please show us using scripture.
He may just be tired of wasting his time beating a dead horse. He probably knows that regardless of what scripture he quotes to make his case, you will just explain it away. Do you believe that salvation is a gift? Do you believe that salvation is probation? Do you believe that eternal life is eternal or temporary? Do you believe that Jesus is the door or a revolving door?
Of course you disagree with my remarks because you are blinded by your own personal agenda to attack the OSAS doctrine and drag people onto that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security. The same roller coaster ride that I was on, prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago. You know what they say. Misery loves company.
So once again, it includes the people of Israel, but it doesn't stop there (Romans 11:11-12, 25-31). The special gifts of God, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1, 15-18; 6:23; 8:15,23, 29-39; 9:11; Ephesians 1:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4 etc..) are irrevocable, but you have your agenda to uphold.
Yes, God does give and we receive and God is not an Indian giver. Believers are sealed until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)
The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not get arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.
Now please show us using scripture where God's gifts, his election, justification, adoption, and in particular effectual calling (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1, 15-18; 6:23; 8:15,23, 29-39; 9:11; Ephesians 1:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:4 etc..) are irrevocable.
So which GIFTS ARE irrevocable and which GIFTS are NOT irrevocable, according to your agenda? Please show us using scripture.
He may just be tired of wasting his time beating a dead horse. He probably knows that regardless of what scripture he quotes to make his case, you will just explain it away. Do you believe that salvation is a gift? Do you believe that salvation is probation? Do you believe that eternal life is eternal or temporary? Do you believe that Jesus is the door or a revolving door?
Of course you disagree with my remarks because you are blinded by your own personal agenda to attack the OSAS doctrine and drag people onto that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security. The same roller coaster ride that I was on, prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago. You know what they say. Misery loves company.
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I live in the high desert above Los Angeles, the only snow where we live is in the mountains which are about 1hour drive to get to -- never seen a snowmobile in person only on TV shows about Alaska. Yea its pretty boring here without snow I know.....
Los Angeles, CA - Thursday 9:00 AM Cloudy
5613°F°F | °C Precipitation: 0% Humidity: 77%Wind: 2 mph
Los Angeles, CA - Thursday 9:00 AM Cloudy
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E
I live in the high desert above Los Angeles, the only snow where we live is in the mountains which are about 1hour drive to get to -- never seen a snowmobile in person only on TV shows about Alaska. Yea its pretty boring here without snow I know.....
Los Angeles, CA - Thursday 9:00 AM Cloudy
5613°F°F | °C Precipitation: 0% Humidity: 77%Wind: 2 mph
Los Angeles, CA - Thursday 9:00 AM Cloudy
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@EG can you tell me how it is? Do your joints start hurting or what happens in time with the cold?
Haha! Donald trump is the best! I just saw that he came out with Hulk Hogan's "real american" theme song. What a character! God bless his soul!
and RIP King Kong Bundy he passed away recently at 61!
Haha! Donald trump is the best! I just saw that he came out with Hulk Hogan's "real american" theme song. What a character! God bless his soul!
and RIP King Kong Bundy he passed away recently at 61!
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Exactly. They (the work-for-salvationists/Judaizers) love to preach that we are saved by grace alone as a gift, but after initial salvation we must do good works/be obedient to keep it. Which means, they are in fact teaching that salvation must be earned.
For them, it's like if someone purchased you a car as a gift (Ephesians 2:8). The dealership gives you the title with their official seal (Ephesians 1:3) saying you own the car. Then later, you get a letter saying you have to make payments to keep the car. And if you get too far behind on the payments, the car will be taken away from you.
Then truly, the car was never a gift, nor is it free in any sense of the word.
Their hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
For them, it's like if someone purchased you a car as a gift (Ephesians 2:8). The dealership gives you the title with their official seal (Ephesians 1:3) saying you own the car. Then later, you get a letter saying you have to make payments to keep the car. And if you get too far behind on the payments, the car will be taken away from you.
Then truly, the car was never a gift, nor is it free in any sense of the word.
Their hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
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I ordered a book called, "12 Steps for the Recovering Pharisee (Like Me)" by John Fischer. (I heard about it from an old program called "Nightsounds" with Bill Pearce. Anyone remember that show? Nightsounds Radio)
Anyhoo, it has a chapter called: "Realize that we detest mercy given to those who, unlike us, haven't worked for it, and don't deserve it."
Describes them to a "T".
Anyhoo, it has a chapter called: "Realize that we detest mercy given to those who, unlike us, haven't worked for it, and don't deserve it."
Describes them to a "T".
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Amen to that one migo.....one thing we do for sure.....non stop point to Christ and what he has done or does on our behalf......they point to themselves and what they do in his name to keep themselves......
The differences are glaring and tragically sad......Lord, Lord, have we not done.........
The differences are glaring and tragically sad......Lord, Lord, have we not done.........
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