Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

I just did a search on free grace theology and got several different interpretations. Will the real free grace theology please stand up! lol

Stone,
I wish you would find out about this because many on this thread espouse this belief.
As I'm sure you know,,,it's not a church; it's a movement.
This movement is infecting many churches with Christian concepts that did not exists 40 or 50 years ago. It can be known as Free Grace, Cheap Grace and Easy Believism.

When I bring this up to someone that mentions it (otherwise I really don't) I get accused of saying that God's grace is cheap! NO! THAT movement is making God's grace cheap by stating that it is easy to be saved forever....just "believe" and accept Jesus....and that's all one needs to do. Some call it the faith only movement.

As, I think, you also believe as I do...it's not this easy.
We must also be sanctified...
We must follow our Lord
and we must be a disciple of His.

That movement, OTOH, makes His grace cheap by giving God no glory by obeying Him and by teaching that it's not even necessary. Some will go so far as to say that not only is confessing sin not necessary,,,but that it's a SIN !

 

[stonesoffire]

GodsGrace101, post: 3865725, member: 274948"]I haven't learned anything yet.....

ok..

How does the soul become one with the spirit?

First of all, do you know the difference? I was assuming....see how easy?...that you knew the scriptures.
The soul is the mind, will, and emotions. The spirit is the candle of the Lord. That's Gods words in the OT. I like it better than just saying the part of us that is perfect in Him when born again.

The soul of us is that which needs "saved". As we learn what just exactly has been given to us through the death, and most important for li



You say sanctification is being separated unto God for WORKS!!!!
What works? How many are needed to be saved? What if I can't do any?
And those are the stages??? It sounds like Justification and Sanctification to me...
NOT stages.
What does circumcision of the flesh mean?
God is within? Are you a Buddhist? What does THAT mean? I thought He was without.
Carnal is the old way??? So we're not carnal anymore?
What if I'm not changed instantly, as you say --- am I still saved?
What is receiving by faith in truth?

Theology is GOOD.
Even Peter said Paul is difficult to understand...and it's proven right here on these threads.[/QUOTE]

LOL

I used to sing soprano in a church choir.
That was one of my favorite songs.

See. You did it again...

"Jesus paid it all...Finished Work"

Not only you, but many on here say this.
But then you spoke about sanctificataion and how we're to do God's work, just beforre this post.
So which is it?

Why so many verses on doing good deeds if Jesus did it all?
Are we Christians so lazy these days?

That's twice. Not all the time.

 

[stonesoffire]

GodsGrace101, post: 3865725, member: 274948"]I haven't learned anything yet.....

ok..

How does the soul become one with the spirit?

First of all, do you know the difference? I was assuming....see how easy?...that you knew the scriptures.
The soul is the mind, will, and emotions. The spirit is the candle of the Lord. That's Gods words in the OT. I like it better than just saying the part of us that is perfect in Him when born again.

The soul of us is that which needs "saved". As we learn what just exactly has been given to us through the death, and most important for li



You say sanctification is being separated unto God for WORKS!!!!
What works? How many are needed to be saved? What if I can't do any?
And those are the stages??? It sounds like Justification and Sanctification to me...
NOT stages.
What does circumcision of the flesh mean?
God is within? Are you a Buddhist? What does THAT mean? I thought He was without.
Carnal is the old way??? So we're not carnal anymore?
What if I'm not changed instantly, as you say --- am I still saved?
What is receiving by faith in truth?

Theology is GOOD.
Even Peter said Paul is difficult to understand...and it's proven right here on these threads.

That's twice. Not all the time. [/QUOTE]

Well shoot....that one part of my posting to you isn't finished. My fault . Will start over from where it's left off.

 

[BillG]

No, you got the wrong Idea. HE ALLOWED ME TO GET THAT DEPRESSED, SO THAT I WOULD BE Better EQUIPPED FOR THE MINISTRY HE WAS ALREADY ORCHESTRATING IN MY LIFE. HE INTENDED to USE my TOTAL TRUST IN HIM, to follow HIM WHEREVER HE WANTED ME TO GO.

Now I will tell you a BIT MORE about my Testimony. HIS purpose was NOT TO SAVE ME FROM DEPRESSION, it was to Prepare me to Minister as a Volunteer Chaplain, in the END OF THE LINE, PRISON, actually in the Security Housing Unit, "THE HOLE". If they messed up BAD ENOUGH, {ASSAULT ON STAFF}, in any prison in California, they will END UP in the S.H.U. in the Prison whey I Volunteered. Through a WHOLE SLEW of Minor Miracles, I ended up eventually, KNOWING I WAS TO VOLUNTEER at that PRISON.

NOW YOU TELL ME, how a Nebraska Farm Boy ends up with NO BIBLE COLLEGE AT ALL, in the END OF THE LINE PRISON, IN THE HOLE, TO MINISTER TO THE INMATES THEIR as a Volunteer Protestant Chaplain ? HE KNOWS, not me.

It makes NO SENSE TO ME, but HE KEPT OPENING THE DOORS, AND I WAS FAITHFULLY WALKING THROUGH THOSE DOORS. As a Nebraska Farm Boy, I thought "there is nothing but FRUITS and NUTS, in California, so who wants to move there." YET HE PUT A BURNING DESIRE IN MY HEART TO MOVE THEIR. I DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHY, and it took about 3 years in Post Office Job, to get enough SENIORITY to get regular days off, SO that I could commit one those days off to the Ministry. After about 2 years, HE MOVED ME from north eastern CALIFORNIA to the COAST. BUT THIS TIME HE LET ME KNOW WHY HE WANTED ME IN CALIFORNIA. He wanted me to Start a Prison Ministry at the Newest Prison in California, and they were just bulldozing down the trees there. I HAD NO IDEA HOW TO START A PRISON MINISTRY, BUT I TRUSTED THE LORD TOTALLY, and I KNEW HE KNEW ALL ABOUT STARTING A PRISON MINISTRY. The Prison Staff INSISTED that I use the TITLE: Volunteer Protestant Prison Chaplain. I was their for 9.5 years, and then moved to another supermax Prison for 5.5 years, until I retired from the Post Office.


That it about as much as I need to tell you for now, but I cannot tell you how MANY minor Miracles He has to work out, to get me into that Volunteer Position. My experience, came handy, as they often called on me to Minister to inmates on Suicide Watch.

VCO,

Is not our God amazing?
He sure is.

Your above testimony has bought a joy to my heart.

Our Father promised to work good in all things.
He did not say they he would make all bad things in us or that we have suffered good but that he would work good in such things.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Most people focus only read V28.
They ask questions like "Well if God really loves me why did this happen, why do I still suffer this and so on, how can he work good in this?

The focus becomes self and not what God is doing to prepare us to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

How could you walk with people if you have not been through it?
You/we can't because we would be no good at all.

I thank God for the nasties of life.
That may sound weird but it's my reality.

I got to the stage that when I went to bed at night I cried myself to sleep asking God to kill me, not to wake up in the morning.

As he worked in me (long process 22 years) I woke up one morning and said to myself "Ok I have woken up and therefore there must be a purpose"

So I prayed "Ok God you ain't killed me in the night, therefore I must have a purpose, what is it and help me accept it and give me the strength to walk in it"

I'm not saying my life is perfect and that I don't struggle but like you he is using me to help others.

I would encourage anyone on here struggles, can't make sense of life, who has hurts of the past that bind you. There is hope.

If you wake up tomorrow there is a purpose.
That purpose is you.
Don't shrink back to the norm you walk in because it what's you know.

The Father wants to work good in the crap in our life, bring healing and break the chains.

To conform us to the image of Jesus to help others.

Do not be frightened, it's easier to hug the comfort blanket of what we are used to than not know what the new comfort blanket God will give us.

If you wake up tomorrow then thank God, ask the purpose and ask him to lead you.
He promised to do that.

 

[Hevosmies]

Are we Christians so lazy these days?

I was going to respond to this but ehh.......

 

[BillG]

I was going to respond to this but ehh.......

H

I hope you don't mind me asking.

What do you think about how God thinks about you or feels about you?
What do you think about how Jesuyy thinks about you and feels about you?

 

[GodsGrace101]

GodsGrace101, post: 3865725, member: 274948"]I haven't learned anything yet.....

ok..

How does the soul become one with the spirit?

First of all, do you know the difference? I was assuming....see how easy?...that you knew the scriptures.
The soul is the mind, will, and emotions. The spirit is the candle of the Lord. That's Gods words in the OT. I like it better than just saying the part of us that is perfect in Him when born again.

The soul of us is that which needs "saved". As we learn what just exactly has been given to us through the death, and most important for li



You say sanctification is being separated unto God for WORKS!!!!
What works? How many are needed to be saved? What if I can't do any?
And those are the stages??? It sounds like Justification and Sanctification to me...
NOT stages.
What does circumcision of the flesh mean?
God is within? Are you a Buddhist? What does THAT mean? I thought He was without.
Carnal is the old way??? So we're not carnal anymore?
What if I'm not changed instantly, as you say --- am I still saved?
What is receiving by faith in truth?

Theology is GOOD.
Even Peter said Paul is difficult to understand...and it's proven right here on these threads.


That's twice. Not all the time.

What I was trying to point out was that we talk here and we're not very clear in what we mean at times.

I get push-back for saying we have to obey God.
I'm pretty sure (hate to assume!) that you most probably agree with me.
Or do you?
So, then, why not just say it? What's the problem?

As to the rest....my questions are rhetorical of course....
You want to discuss the trichotomy of man...OK. But not now!
It's not what this thread is about. Some believe in the dichotomy of man....

Anyway,,, I'm trying to get to the bottom of things.

And you forced me to get up off this chair before to go looking for my music sheet.
I DON'T HAVE IT ANYMORE!!!

 

[GodsGrace101]

I was going to respond to this but ehh.......

Pretty funny!
I like to take a nap every day.
Do you think I'm still saved??

 

[Budman]

I get push-back for saying we have to obey God.

No, Fran. You get push back for saying salvation must be earned.

 

[dcontroversal]

You sound like what @dcontroversal talks about to me....

A fruit-inspector.
Worry about your own soul...and not eveybody else's.

More dishonesty from you Fran....I judge your false dogma......your works speak for themselves.....like dishonesty, deception, being untruthful etc......

 

[stonesoffire]

I haven't learned anything yet.....
How does the soul become one with the spirit?

I was at this part. When the scriptures speaks of being saved as by fire, to me this is the soul of us. Flesh. When we see Him, we become like Him. Our spirit being complete in Him with becoming one with God as we live in faith to His obedience, His faith ; or by His obedience and faith is better wording, affects us and we die to this....becoming one with Spirit. The Spiritual man/woman is always growing greater by grace or the power of Holy Spirit freely given, through faith. Making us one with Him. This was His prayer for His body before ascension.

You say sanctification is being separated unto God for WORKS!!!!

I said Pentecost is sancfication. The Spirit overwhelming us or baptizing us His power, giftings, and offices. Works of Holy Spirit moving though us. Don't change my words.


What works? How many are needed to be saved? What if I can't do any?

Ridiculous questioning to me. I'm not talking about good works which is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Learn which tree you are of. Which is dying.


And those are the stages??? It sounds like Justification and Sanctification to me...
NOT stages.

Some stay in Passover and don't receive or believe in Pentecost. Not going to argue this here either.


What does circumcision of the flesh mean?

? You having a son? Right? doesn't know? Biblically entrance of the Kingdom of God within us.


God is within? Are you a Buddhist? What does THAT mean? I thought He was without.

That's been my issue with you all along. Learn where the kingdom of God resides. States it in scripture.
Carnal is the old way??? So we're not carnal anymore?- this is GG, not me Stones.


Carnal is the human nature. Acting from the old man which is dead in sin. We are alive in God. Some don't believe this. Read the scriptures is all I will say.

carnal:

G4559​

σαρκικός


sarkikos


sar-kee-kos'


From G4561; pertaining to flesh, that is, (by extension) bodily, temporal, or (by implication) animal, unregenerate: - carnal, fleshly.


Total KJV occurrences: 11





What if I'm not changed instantly, as you say --- am I still saved?

Not my call to judge that. I just know everyone I've heard testimony from has testified of this. Self included.

What is receiving by faith in truth?

Rhema truth versus logos....believe Holy Spirits teaching.



Theology is GOOD.

Even Peter said Paul is difficult to understand...and it's proven right here on these threads

Because Peter was a Jew and thought as a Jew.

I hope this isn't screwed up.

 

[dcontroversal]

@NoNameMcgee

Hi NNM,,,,

I'll repeat it for you....

You sound like what @dcontroversal talks about to me....

A fruit-inspector.
Worry about your own soul...and not everybody else's.

Three tags in a row...three deceptive lies in a row.....I judge your false gospel and all can see your fruit.....shall we pull up some if that fruit that got you axed the first time and then you can explain how that proves your saved??

No, Fran. You get push back for saying salvation must be earned.

Amen brother......I have never seen one as dishonest with the facts as she is......no integrity or honesty with the facts.....I have consistently from day one stated clearly that what I judge is her false dogma and then while Knowing I am in AU and in bed on a different time frame she mouths me falsely........this speaks volumes to her character.....!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Part 2.

In other posts you have stated differently, but I agree with this statement here. I have always said that faith in Christ is the ROOT of salvation and obedience/good works which follow are the FRUIT. NO FRUIT AT ALL demonstrates there is NO ROOT.

Fruit of the Spirit is the visible effects of the Holy Spirit by those who have received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Where does the Bible say, "lose sanctification" or "lose justification" or "lose salvation?" In Romans 8:30, we read - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty.

There is a difference between the two.

So you are saying to give a brother or sister these things needed for the body in James 2:15-16 is NOT a "good work" and to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to NOT break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) which is NOT found written in the law of Moses? (Leviticus 19:18). Please explain to me which good works a Christian do which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses. (Matthew 22:37-40; Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).

I am familiar with the Mosaic Covenant (Old Covenant) and with the New Covenant. Believers are not under 613 laws under the Old Covenant with all it's rules and regulations and you still cannot dissect the moral aspect of the law from the Old Covenant and it's not abolished in the New Covenant. Since the Old Covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made obsolete the Old Covenant to "put legally into place" the New Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13). The life of discipleship flows out of the New Command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), which Paul refers to as the "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). Love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10).

Is clothing the naked a "good work?" Is refusing to clothe the naked to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses? (Leviticus 19:18). *That is my point. In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which would be like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. *James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. S

What do you mean So???? You keep missing the point that you CANNOT DISSECT GOOD WORKS FROM THE MORAL ASPECT OF THE LAW and teach we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. Jesus did not say that works are the necessary means by which we obtain eternal life. What did Jesus say in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 in regards to obtaining eternal life? Nothing about works and works are the fruit of salvation but never the root of it.

It amazes me how you continue to miss my point.

Of course we are to do good works. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:10)

Me personally.....no root = no growth ......trees, bushes and plants all set root and grow before fruit.......!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi PennEd, and do you suppose you're really going to get an honest answer "truthfully" ?

Highly unlikely.....those previously banned and back cannot answer truthfully because they will be rebanned.....speaks volumes to their character and lack of honesty! And they all claim that obedience saves or keeps saved!!

 

[stonesoffire]

Fran

My differ with you is what everyone else is saying. You use the words must, should which makes grace law. It also brings condemnation which the Word states we have none for those who walk in Spirit. If we are Spirit, which Paul declares we are, then as we live, and move...we have our being in Him. We are His and He's give us the Teacher, the Comforter, our companion within and alongside to teach, guide, and even chastise as we grow in grace and knowledge.

This is not legalism. This is truth. Whether we have experience the new birth or the baptism of Spirit and fire...we are His. All on equal footing in Him, but rewards will be individual.

It's not about works that we do. It's always and will be forever His works and we exalt Him for paying this awesome, but so dreadful price He paid that we might live with Father too, forever.

The Cross and the truth draws. Not law. Though that might draw those who are all about the outer look.

 

[stonesoffire]

What I was trying to point out was that we talk here and we're not very clear in what we mean at times.

I get push-back for saying we have to obey God.
I'm pretty sure (hate to assume!) that you most probably agree with me.
Or do you?
So, then, why not just say it? What's the problem?

As to the rest....my questions are rhetorical of course....
You want to discuss the trichotomy of man...OK. But not now!
It's not what this thread is about. Some believe in the dichotomy of man....

Anyway,,, I'm trying to get to the bottom of things.

And you forced me to get up off this chair before to go looking for my music sheet.
I DON'T HAVE IT ANYMORE!!!

We will believe/obey His Word. It's His work within us to bring us to this. Not self.

 

[dcontroversal]

Fran

My differ with you is what everyone else is saying. You use the words must, should which makes grace law. It also brings condemnation which the Word states we have none for those who walk in Spirit. If we are Spirit, which Paul declares we are, then as we live, and move...we have our being in Him. We are His and He's give us the Teacher, the Comforter, our companion within and alongside to teach, guide, and even chastise as we grow in grace and knowledge.

This is not legalism. This is truth. Whether we have experience the new birth or the baptism of Spirit and fire...we are His. All on equal footing in Him, but rewards will be individual.

It's not about works that we do. It's always and will be forever His works and we exalt Him for paying this awesome, but so dreadful price He paid that we might live with Father too, forever.

The Cross and the truth draws. Not law. Though that might draw those who are all about the outer look.

These workers for and salvation losers which use the word must ALL LEAVE OUT who God chastens and WHY......and they also deny the fact that fruit is fruit regardless of size, shape color or type.....saved men and women can and do produce BOTH TYPES OF FRUIT....good and bad...........and sometimes do not produce a thing due to a lack of spiritual growth and or truth!

 

[GodsGrace101]

@stonesoffire

It did get messed up.
And I was only making a point,,,,but we can discuss.
Here goes...

Here's what you posted and my answers will be in red.


vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
GodsGrace101 said:
I haven't learned anything yet.....
How does the soul become one with the spirit?

I was at this part. When the scriptures speaks of being saved as by fire, to me this is the soul of us. Flesh. When we see Him, we become like Him. Our spirit being complete in Him with becoming one with God as we live in faith to His obedience, His faith ; or by His obedience and faith is better wording, affects us and we die to this....becoming one with Spirit. The Spiritual man/woman is always growing greater by grace or the power of Holy Spirit freely given, through faith. Making us one with Him. This was His prayer for His body before ascension.

Before you said that the spirit was the candle of God. OK. It's said that the spirit is the God part of us...that part that can attain to God...same thing, I'd say.

As to the soul...yes,,,,mind,,,emotion,,,,will. But you're speaking of 1 Corinthians 3:1-15 and these verses are very much misunderstood. You posted a lot,,, but if you want to go thru it, I'm willing.
I'll only say this quick: Who are these verses speaking about? Could it be that THE MINISTRY of Paul and Apollos is being spoken of? THEIR works will be burned up if wrong.....

Agree with the rest. The soul is transformed by our spirit....the awakened spirit we have WILL have an effect on our soul...that is our emotions, our will, and our mind. When we know God we can be happier, know how to make decisions better and just have a healthier mind or way of thinking.
We do this by conforming to our savior,,,as you've stated. An easy way to say this is just to say that we FOLLOW Jesus to learn from Him.


You say sanctification is being separated unto God for WORKS!!!!

I said Pentecost is sancfication. The Spirit overwhelming us or baptizing us His power, giftings, and offices. Works of Holy Spirit moving though us. Don't change my words.


Change your words! I don't even know what you mean!
I would use the word sanctification. If you use the word Pentecost it reflects good study on your part but many would not understand. Also, why Pentecost? Why not at the moment of believing? Is it the same to you? There are at least 3 different baptisms...Does everyone have the power of the Holy Spirit that is born again to your understanding? (that's a real question!) I believe a person can be born again but does not have the power of the Holy Spirit....


What works? How many are needed to be saved? What if I can't do any?

Ridiculous questioning to me. I'm not talking about good works which is the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Learn which tree you are of. Which is dying.

As I've said, I was being rhetorical...sorry. But I am happy we're having this discussion.
I asked those dumb questions because I get asked them all the time and I'm so sick of it.


And those are the stages??? It sounds like Justification and Sanctification to me...
NOT stages.

Some stay in Passover and don't receive or believe in Pentecost. Not going to argue this here either.

Hmm. I think you're saying what I said above about baptism....?


What does circumcision of the flesh mean?

? You having a son? Right? doesn't know? Biblically entrance of the Kingdom of God within us.

To you it seems easy,,,,but how many know the O.T. (not that I claim to)
One had to be circumcised to be a member of the Hebrews....even outsiders.
Now it's our heart that is circumcised.
And now we receive entrance to the Kingdom of God.
I'd love to know what you mean that it is IN us.
To me it's a dimension all around us....Those that belong to Jesus belong to it...it's a spiritual dimension that those from John 3:3 belong to....a place where everything should be better and where love is dominant....Jesus came to save and to create a better world using us.


God is within? Are you a Buddhist? What does THAT mean? I thought He was without.

That's been my issue with you all along. Learn where the kingdom of God resides. States it in scripture.
Carnal is the old way??? So we're not carnal anymore?- this is GG, not me Stones.
Buddhists really believe it's inside us.
Other religions too. I like to be careful with saying this....I like to explain it when I do...as I did above.
Don't know if you agree with what I wrote...

But....
Isn't this nicer than throwing words at each other?


Carnal is the human nature. Acting from the old man which is dead in sin. We are alive in God. Some don't believe this. Read the scriptures is all I will say.

I believe it.
Carnal
Flesh
Sin Nature


What if I'm not changed instantly, as you say --- am I still saved?

Not my call to judge that. I just know everyone I've heard testimony from has testified of this. Self included.

Some are changed in one way or another immediatly...
Some carry their luggage with them a long time.
As long as they have Christ as Savior and are trying....it will not be sin...
and we should always confess. Man is so imperfect....

What is receiving by faith in truth?

Rhema truth versus logos....believe Holy Spirits teaching.

Oh my gosh. You're only the second person I know that knows about the Rhema of God.
I've forgotten about it and will study up on it tomorrow.



Theology is GOOD.

Even Peter said Paul is difficult to understand...and it's proven right here on these threads

Because Peter was a Jew and thought as a Jew.
Amen. As a lot of what is said in the N.T.
Hermeneutics.... This is why I say that OSAS is a NEW concept that was never even though of back then.

I hope this isn't screwed up.

Wish everything was this easy to fix.....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Three tags in a row...three deceptive lies in a row.....I judge your false gospel and all can see your fruit.....shall we pull up some if that fruit that got you axed the first time and then you can explain how that proves your saved??


Amen brother......I have never seen one as dishonest with the facts as she is......no integrity or honesty with the facts.....I have consistently from day one stated clearly that what I judge is her false dogma and then while Knowing I am in AU and in bed on a different time frame she mouths me falsely........this speaks volumes to her character.....!!

I don't have to prove to YOU that I'm saved.
And you don't even have to talk to me.

I like serious conversation and it's impossible with you.

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't have to prove to YOU that I'm saved.
And you don't even have to talk to me.

I like serious conversation and it's impossible with you.

By your doctrine you prove that you reject the truth while believing and peddling a Catholic twist false gospel.....and your right...we cannot have a good convo because you twist, embellish and deny the word of God while being dishonest and deceptive at the same time.....How can I take a previously banned member serious when you peddle obedience to remain saved and yet you break the rules everytime you post in CC......