Not By Works

[gb9]

You can't claim to "debunk"...you actually have to do this.

Show me where in Mathew 25 it states that some group of people CLAIMED to FOLLOW HIM.

I just don't see it.
Thanks.

are you looking for it?

when the King looked at the ones on the left and said " depart from me....., the people responded " Lord, when did we see.... and not do'

you see fran, those on the left THOUGHT that they had did nothing wrong, based on their thoughts, i.e., thinking that they were right with the King, or at least had did nothing wrong to the King.

thinking . but not doing.

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi UG,,,I hear things on this thread that are just not right.

I don't know what you mean by flesh...
We're made of 3 parts:
Body
Soul
Spirit

All three are being redeemed...we are a whole person....
Our body itself will be redeemed at the end of the world when it will become immortal.

If by flesh you mean the sin nature...which is what is usually meant by this term,,,,the flesh, the sin nature....then you would not be right and the flesh is also being redeemed.

A person can only be perfected by love....one that does not love does not know God.
1 John 4:8

This is why Jesus told us the Two Great Commandments have to do with love....
Mathew 22:37-39 Love God. Love your neighbor as yourself.

We are to present ourselves a living sacrifice....a sacrifice united to Jesus' sacrifice...
He said we are to pick up our cross every day...
Romans 12:1
Mathew 16:24.....

If you looked at the Greek, you would know what flesh means.

 

[GodsGrace101]

If you looked at the Greek, you would know what flesh means.

Please note:

I'm not the one that doesn't know what flesh means.
If you notice I gave two different examples....WHY...

Precisely BECAUSE I hear things on this thread that are NOT RIGHT.

Perhaps YOU'D care to explain what flesh means to you....

All I hear is criticism and no biblical truths....

Do YOU have a PhD in Greek?
I doubt it.

 

[stonesoffire]

Here is were you and I disagree....the parable is about a "son" becoming a backslid sinner

Twice in this lesson Jesus said "my son was dead and lost'". You have added emotionally and financially........the lesson wasn't about finances or emotions, it was about a lost son.

As I pointed out the word "dead" is the same word used in other verses dealing with us being dead in our sins.

I think it can be dangerous to make the text say something it didn't say

I'm aware of the argument that you make that no matter what he was still a SON.......But I think this is the reason for the lesson Jesus is giving.....that even though I am a son, if I rebel, turn my back on God, I can become DEAD.....LOST

Hi God and guns...

The problem as I see it with your post or your thinking is, you've left out the chastening of the Lord. Go back and read mailmandans posts. If you like that is.

 

[stonesoffire]

Please note:

I'm not the one that doesn't know what flesh means.
If you notice I gave two different examples....WHY...

Precisely BECAUSE I hear things on this thread that are NOT RIGHT.

Perhaps YOU'D care to explain what flesh means to you....

All I hear is criticism and no biblical truths....

Do YOU have a PhD in Greek?
I doubt it.

Not at all. But I do know how to use a Strongs concordance. Very wise thing to do. In case you aren't aware, you can do topical studies to get the drift....got my drift?

 

[stonesoffire]

Flesh:

G4561
σάρξ
sarx
Thayer Definition:
1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts
2) the body
2a) the body of a man
2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
2b1) born of natural generation
2c) the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature”
2c1) without any suggestion of depravity
2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably from the base of G4563

Check out no. 4. See how easy?

 

[stonesoffire]

The sheep became a sinner in need of repentance.......that was the point of the lesson.........when we wander off God deals and deals with us with his mercy to repent

I don't understand this argument that the sheep is still a sheep.......was it ever anything else.......it was born a sheep, not sure what that has to do with anything

No I do not believe I'm working for my salvation by simply obeying God....He gives the Holy Spirit to those that obey him

Isn't the point ownership?

We are bought...redeemed. Translated out of a kingdom of darkness, into light. Gods glorious light! Himself!

 

[stonesoffire]

Huh?
What do you mean?
Mathew 25 is part of the bible...
It's where I read about sheep and goats.

Do you think I explained it incorrectly?
How?

It takes time to go back and look for posts....
Why don't you just answer the post instead of telling me I twisted the biblical words?

Here's my post again....it's no. 89,617...
Please show me HOW I twisted scripture.
Thanks.


Where is this in the N.T.?

Does this refer to Mathew 25?
When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats as a shepherd would?

Well, how does that work?
The sheep are sheep and the goats are goats.

The sheep go on Jesus' right and the goats on His left.

The sheep are those that go to be with God because they obeyed what Jesus commanded...
The goats are those that will go to eternal punishment because they did NOT obey what Jesus commanded.

I still don't get it....

The sheep obey God and go to Eternal Life.
The goats do not obey God and go to eternal punishment.

So?

I will probably get shots from everyone here but am going to say this anyway.

The body of Christ is a seperate entity from the NATIONS of sheep and goats. Jesus speaks of both. The problem is that we put everything together as one big blob, and it's a mess of misunderstandings.

We who are the body, are sons. We are dealt with differently than sheep. We are being raised up to rule with Him over nations in the next age.

The sheep nations are those who worship YHWH. The goats are idolatrous. If you look at images of gods, some have goat heads.

I am not a sheep. Though I'm female, im a son in spirit.

We are destined for the judgement seat of Christ. Not the great White throne judgement.

So study the writings of Paul. Jesus gave this to him.

 

[stonesoffire]

This is me at work:

My floors need done too. How much an hour?

 

[UnderGrace]

Then shall we sin more so that grace may abound more?

Should we do evil that good may come?

Does this make any logical sense?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Not at all. But I do know how to use a Strongs concordance. Very wise thing to do. In case you aren't aware, you can do topical studies to get the drift....got my drift?

Here's the drift I get:

You don't care to explain what flesh means.
That's OK. I'm used to not getting answers on this thread.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I will probably get shots from everyone here but am going to say this anyway.

The body of Christ is a seperate entity from the NATIONS of sheep and goats. Jesus speaks of both. The problem is that we put everything together as one big blob, and it's a mess of misunderstandings.

We who are the body, are sons. We are dealt with differently than sheep. We are being raised up to rule with Him over nations in the next age.

The sheep nations are those who worship YHWH. The goats are idolatrous. If you look at images of gods, some have goat heads.

I am not a sheep. Though I'm female, im a son in spirit.

We are destined for the judgement seat of Christ. Not the great White throne judgement.

So study the writings of Paul. Jesus gave this to him.

It's speaking of nations which WILL be judged.

But if you notice...Jesus is also speaking to us individually.
And also, if you notice, both groups of persons were SURPRISED at how they were judged.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Should we do evil that good may come?

Does this make any logical sense?

Go back and read all the posts.
You've misunderstood.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Flesh:

G4561
σάρξ
sarx
Thayer Definition:
1) flesh (the soft substance of the living body, which covers the bones and is permeated with blood) of both man and beasts
2) the body
2a) the body of a man
2b) used of natural or physical origin, generation or relationship
2b1) born of natural generation
2c) the sensuous nature of man, “the animal nature”
2c1) without any suggestion of depravity
2c2) the animal nature with cravings which incite to sin
2c3) the physical nature of man as subject to suffering
3) a living creature (because possessed of a body of flesh) whether man or beast
4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably from the base of G4563

Check out no. 4. See how easy?

Oh for goodness sake...
Can't you explain it in your own words?

Can you not live without some Greek lexicon to tell you everything?
Have you studied some theology to help you along?

 

[UnderGrace]

4) the flesh, denotes mere human nature, the earthly nature of man apart from divine influence, and therefore prone to sin and opposed to God

I would say this sums it up nicely, I prefer to stay away from Augustine and his false ideas.

Thanks!!

 

[gb9]

Go back and read all the posts.
You've misunderstood.

i did answer you about Matthew 25 a while back.

do you want to go ahead and admit your language and Matthew 25 stance has been debunked , or go on being self-deceived ? up to you.

 

[GodsGrace101]

i did answer you about Matthew 25 a while back.

do you want to go ahead and admit your language and Matthew 25 stance has been debunked , or go on being self-deceived ? up to you.

YOU DID NOT SHOW anything.

You said a group CLAIMED to know Him.
Where???

This is your response to post no. 89,661....

The response itself is not understandable because you cannot justify your comment.

are you looking for it?

when the King looked at the ones on the left and said " depart from me....., the people responded " Lord, when did we see.... and not do'

you see fran, those on the left THOUGHT that they had did nothing wrong, based on their thoughts, i.e., thinking that they were right with the King, or at least had did nothing wrong to the King.

thinking . but not doing.

You're asking me if I'm looking for the claim.
I don't need to look for it. YOU stated they CLAIMED to be Christian...NOT ME.

The ones on the left thought they had done nothing wrong.
So?

This is the whole point...
It doesn't matter what WE think....

What matters is what Jesus TAUGHT.

What did Jesus teach in Mathew 25?

 

[GodsGrace101]

I would say this sums it up nicely, I prefer to stay away from Augustine and his false ideas.

Thanks!!

This comment is rather interesting since it was Augustine that came up with the idea of O.S....
or I should say made it a doctrine and confirmed it so that ALL OF CHRISTIANDOM accepted it.

 

[gb9]

YOU DID NOT SHOW anything.

You said a group CLAIMED to know Him.
Where???

This is your response to post no. 89,661....

The response itself is not understandable because you cannot justify your comment.

are you looking for it?

when the King looked at the ones on the left and said " depart from me....., the people responded " Lord, when did we see.... and not do'

you see fran, those on the left THOUGHT that they had did nothing wrong, based on their thoughts, i.e., thinking that they were right with the King, or at least had did nothing wrong to the King.

thinking . but not doing.

You're asking me if I'm looking for the claim.
I don't need to look for it. YOU stated they CLAIMED to be Christian...NOT ME.

The ones on the left thought they had done nothing wrong.
So?

This is the whole point...
It doesn't matter what WE think....

What matters is what Jesus TAUGHT.

What did Jesus teach in Mathew 25?

very simple. Jesus taught that some think they are saved, but they are not.

the people on the left said " Lord, when did we see..... and not do. thinking they did nothing wrong.

if you would stop putting your personal beliefs above , and read without bias, you would see this.

 

[VCO]

I'm not a robot I choose to love and obey God....... If God forced me to love him you really couldn't call it love

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Hebrews 5:9 KJV

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Acts 5:32 KJV

To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
Acts 7:39 KJV

To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:7‭-‬8 KJV

I could go on and on

e.g. is right, most of us are NOT true Calvinist. I only believe in 3 points of the 5 points of Calvinism. In other words, Calvinism will not claim me because of the 2 points that I disagree with, and Armenianism will not claim me because of the 3 points that I do agree with. SO WHAT DO THEY CALL ME ? ? ? Just an ordinary Christian, who believes in studying the WORD. I LIKE it, there is NO Title that fits.

NOW let me ask you a question. DO YOU BELIEVE A CHRISTIAN SHOULD BEND TO THE WILL OF GOD ? ? ?

NOW if you choose to Bend to the will of GOD, was it YOU, or the HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, that put that thought in your HEAD ? ? ?

Do you not know that once you are BORN AGAIN, your human spirit is totally in line with the WILL OF GOD, because of the eternal life that your human spirit possesses, and your human spirit can THINK TOO ? ? ?

Romans 7:15 (CSBBible)
15 For I do not understand what I am doing, because I do not practice what I want to do, but I do what I hate.

NOTICE, that Paul points out the difference between the Carnal Mind, and the Spiritual mind.

Now that we are BORN AGAIN, we have a HELPER, that we can depend on. But your statement in red above, Reeks from pride, I DO NOT WANT HELP, I CAN DO IT MYSELF.


Psalm 30:10 (HCSB)
10 LORD, listen and be gracious to me; LORD, be my helper.”

Psalm 46:1 (HCSB)
1 God is our refuge and strength, a helper who is always found in times of trouble.

Psalm 54:4 (HCSB)
4 God is my helper; the Lord is the sustainer of my life.

John 15:26 (ESV)
26 “But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

John 16:7 (ESV)
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.

John 14:26-27 (ESV)
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.

NOW LOOK AT THESE VERSES:


Isaiah 43:12 (NCV)
12 I myself have spoken to you, saved you, and told you these things. It was not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses, and I am God,“ says the LORD.

Hebrews 13:6 (ESV)
6 So we can confidently say, “The Lord is my helper; I will not fear; what can man do to me?”

Isaiah 46:10-11 (HCSB)
10 I declare the end from the beginning, and from long ago what is not yet done, saying: My plan will take place, and I will do all My will.
11 I call a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far country. Yes, I have spoken; so I will also bring it about. I have planned it; I will also do it.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.


CAN YOU, after you are BORN AGAIN, make a decision in your spiritual mind, that is CONTRARY TO THE WILL OF GOD ? ? ?

I THINK NOT! And as you MATURE Spiritually, your Spiritual Mind will Dominate the Mind of the Flesh.