Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,221
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#87,221
Magenta said:
Judas was never saved.

“While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” John 17:12
Click to expand...
we might ought to tell Peter that Judas wasn't saved.......he didn't know that

Acts 1:23-25 (KJV)
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

He fell from the ministry and apostleship

Some try to save their theory by asserting that Judas' own place was heaven
others by stating that Judas was never really saved.

Again it looks like the two false security arguments cancel each other out. However, both are in error. Jesus stated that Judas was lost

John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

His own place certainly was not heaven.

If Judas were not at first a true disciple, then there is no reason to believe the other eleven were.

If he were not saved, how could he fall?

The fact That Jesus referred to him by saying, "One of you is a devil," does not prove that Judas never was a real disciple any more than the fact that Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan," proves that Peter wasn't a disciple.


Matthew 10:1-4 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Judas had the power of the Holy ghost and cast out devils

Matthew 12:26 (KJV)
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

ARE YOU SURE JUDAS NEVER WAS SAVED?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,222
#87,222
Goodnewsman said:
we might ought to tell Peter that Judas wasn't saved.......he didn't know that

Acts 1:23-25 (KJV)
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

He fell from the ministry and apostleship

Some try to save their theory by asserting that Judas' own place was heaven
others by stating that Judas was never really saved.

Again it looks like the two false security arguments cancel each other out. However, both are in error. Jesus stated that Judas was lost

John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

His own place certainly was not heaven.

If Judas were not at first a true disciple, then there is no reason to believe the other eleven were.

If he were not saved, how could he fall?

The fact That Jesus referred to him by saying, "One of you is a devil," does not prove that Judas never was a real disciple any more than the fact that Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan," proves that Peter wasn't a disciple.


Matthew 10:1-4 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Judas had the power of the Holy ghost and cast out devils

Matthew 12:26 (KJV)
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

ARE YOU SURE JUDAS NEVER WAS SAVED?
Click to expand...
Goodnewsman said:
we might ought to tell Peter that Judas wasn't saved.......he didn't know that

Acts 1:23-25 (KJV)
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

He fell from the ministry and apostleship

Some try to save their theory by asserting that Judas' own place was heaven
others by stating that Judas was never really saved.

Again it looks like the two false security arguments cancel each other out. However, both are in error. Jesus stated that Judas was lost

John 17:12 (KJV)
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

His own place certainly was not heaven.

If Judas were not at first a true disciple, then there is no reason to believe the other eleven were.

If he were not saved, how could he fall?

The fact That Jesus referred to him by saying, "One of you is a devil," does not prove that Judas never was a real disciple any more than the fact that Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan," proves that Peter wasn't a disciple.


Matthew 10:1-4 (KJV)
1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

Judas had the power of the Holy ghost and cast out devils

Matthew 12:26 (KJV)
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

ARE YOU SURE JUDAS NEVER WAS SAVED?
Click to expand...
John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

Yep, judas was counted with hem who never believed the gospel. I have to take jesus word on this
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,223
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#87,223
eternally-gratefull said:
John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

Yep, judas was counted with hem who never believed the gospel. I have to take jesus word on this
Click to expand...
Keep reading my post it will answer your question straight from the word of God because it looks like you stopped midpoint
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,224
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#87,224
eternally-gratefull said:
John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

Yep, judas was counted with hem who never believed the gospel. I have to take jesus word on this
Click to expand...
John 664 did not say that Judas did not believe read it slow. It said Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe and who should betray him.

Did you not just read where he said Judas by transgression fell
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,227
#87,227
Goodnewsman said:
Keep reading my post it will answer your question straight from the word of God because it looks like you stopped midpoint
Click to expand...
Nope,

I just read what god said.

Was he saved? Jesus said he was an unbeliever.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,228
#87,228
Magenta said:
Jesus said so. I believe Him :)
Click to expand...
Me too

They need judas to be saved, even though we later found he was a thief from the begining. He lived in sin the whole time he walked

Funny how they say things they say, yet judas is like those they say are not saved, but for some reason, he is saved,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,229
#87,229
Goodnewsman said:
John 664 did not say that Judas did not believe read it slow. It said Jesus knew from the beginning who did not believe and who should betray him.

Did you not just read where he said Judas by transgression fell
Click to expand...
He fell from being a disciple

Not from salvation

Why do you demand judas the theif was saved? It contradicts your own belief that sinners can not be saved while living in sin
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,234
#87,234
Magenta said:
Jesus never called him a son of perdition, ot said Peter was doomed to destruction. You lie.
Click to expand...
Amen, jesus told peter he would die by crucifiction, but he would also be a leader of his church
 
G

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
#87,237
Jan 4, 2016
710
102
43
#87,237
Magenta said:
Jesus never called him a son of perdition, or said Peter was doomed to destruction. You lie.
Click to expand...
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 16:23 KJV

Whose lying now
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#87,238
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,282
113
#87,238
Goodnewsman said:
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 16:23 KJV

Whose lying now
Click to expand...
You are. Jesus never called Peter a son of perdition or said Peter was doomed to destruction.
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#87,239
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
7,177
113
#87,239
While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
John 17:12 NASB
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#87,240
#87,240
Goodnewsman said:
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matthew 16:23 KJV

Whose lying now
Click to expand...
I,do not see son of perdition in that post, or that peter was doomed to destruction.

Man, your searching to hard, and your starting to make mistakes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.