Not By Works

[unclesilas]

I said no such thing. Your comprehension suffers.

Do I comprehend that you are saying the Holy Spirit works within the unsaved to draw them to Christ? And should I comprehend(or not) in your view that would entail/include, people being enlightened, tasting the heavenly gift, sharing, or partaking of the Holy Spirit and tasting in the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, and if they then fall away, from the work of the Holy Spirt within them to draw them to Christ, it is impossible to bring them back to repentance for to their loss they are crucifying the Son Of God all over again?


Only I am not comprehending whether you wrote what you did to explain why in your view Heb6:4-6 could refer to unsaved people or not(it was just a general comment). Only you wrote the comment in response to a discussion concerning those verses.

 

[unclesilas]

Luke 8:13...
These are people who had a non saving faith , they liked the idea of the news at first , but as soon as trouble comes to their life , they abandon Jesus , they did not percefere...
Matthew 13:20...
He has no firm root in himself ( Jesus is the root ) , his faith is only temporary , and because persecution comes because of the word , he falls away , why do they fall away , because they do not have Jesus in them ( The root )...xox...

So when Jesus said they fell away, what did they fall away from, nothing?

 

[Rosemaryx]

So when Jesus said they fell away, what did they fall away from, nothing?

I have explained it in my post , read Matthew 13:20 , and maybe you will see it for yourself , Jesus answers it perfectly , Ii pray your eyes will be opened to His answer ...xox...

 

[unclesilas]

Im afraid not. Justification is instantaneous, which means being placed in a saved state is instantaneous, unless you are RC. They received the word with joy. The time of testing can only come if you are on the path, a believer

 

[Rosemaryx]

Im afraid not. Justification is instantaneous, which means being placed in a saved state is instantaneous, unless you are RC. They received the word with joy. The time of testing can only come if you are on the path, a believer

From GOT QUESTIONS...
Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” (Hebrews 6:6) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.

 

[unclesilas]

From GOT QUESTIONS...
Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” (Hebrews 6:6) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.

You cannot partake of/share in the Holy Spirit unless you are in a saved state, there is no getting around that I am afraid

 

[Rosemaryx]

A lovely picture for us all...

 

[blue_ladybug]

 

[unclesilas]

A lovely picture for us all...

And I hope you never will be afraid, I told you previously, I am sure you have nothing to fear where your eternity is concerned.

 

[Rosemaryx]

You cannot partake of/share in the Holy Spirit unless you are in a saved state, there is no getting around that I am afraid

You are at a stumbling block , I was were you are once , but I had to study the Scriptures because I was in torment over this verse , and God is not a God of confusion , this Scripture stole my joy until finally the Holy Spirit revealed to me the truth that was before me , and now I know it is not for believers , I can carry on with my walk rejoicing in the LORD my God...xox...

 

[blue_ladybug]

 

[unclesilas]

You are at a stumbling block , I was were you are once , but I had to study the Scriptures because I was in torment over this verse , and God is not a God of confusion , this Scripture stole my joy until finally the Holy Spirit revealed to me the truth that was before me , and now I know it is not for believers , I can carry on with my walk rejoicing in the LORD my God...xox...

Do not be in torment about it. I think it is you who is where I once was with respect, for then, in effect I did not have a complete bible. It is a fact, that if you take a hard and fast/inflexible opinion on osas, either way, you will find scripture that contradicts your belief

 

[Rosemaryx]

Do not be in torment about it. I think it is you who is where I once was with respect, for then, in effect I did not have a complete bible. It is a fact, that if you take a hard and fast/inflexible opinion on osas, either way, you will find scripture that contradicts your belief

I have to disagree with you ...
When my eyes were opened to the truth of Hebrews 6 , it was like the whole bible came to alive to me once again , and to this day since I got over that block , my heart just sings to my Lord...
I have moved on from there now , but it is a frightful Scripture to those who have tasted the goodness of our Lord but not fully given themselves to Him , it is an awful thing to fall into the hands of our living God...xox...

 

[unclesilas]

I have to disagree with you ...
When my eyes were opened to the truth of Hebrews 6 , it was like the whole bible came to alive to me once again , and to this day since I got over that block , my heart just sings to my Lord...
I have moved on from there now , but it is a frightful Scripture to those who have tasted the goodness of our Lord but not fully given themselves to Him , it is an awful thing to fall into the hands of our living God...xox...

I hope you take this well, it is meant so. Are you sure you have peace discussing this subject? Only some, who have worried over verses I am quoting, can fall back into worry concerning them. I would not want that to happen to you. So are you sure this is a subject you can now discuss, without any problems to you, no negative fears or doubts would creep in?

 

[mailmandan]

Im afraid not. Justification is instantaneous, which means being placed in a saved state is instantaneous, unless you are RC. They received the word with joy. The time of testing can only come if you are on the path, a believer

See post #85,359. Also, the KJV and NASB say ..in time of temptation fall away.

2 Corinthians 13:5 - Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test? Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away fails the test.

 

[PennEd]

You are at a stumbling block , I was were you are once , but I had to study the Scriptures because I was in torment over this verse , and God is not a God of confusion , this Scripture stole my joy until finally the Holy Spirit revealed to me the truth that was before me , and now I know it is not for believers , I can carry on with my walk rejoicing in the LORD my God...xox...

AMEN Rosemary! Wish I could give more than just a "winner" ribbon.

Remember, just because we have received revelation about difficult passages, DESPITE THE ABSOLUTE MOUNTAIN OF SCRIPTURE SUPPORTING THAT GOD WILL NEVER LEAVE US, doesn't mean other less mature Christians have, and the enemy will never stop trying to steal our joy. Using even them against us.

But it's kinda like once you KNOW 2+2 = 4, no one can shake you back to believing 2+2= 5.

 

[unclesilas]

See post #85,359. Also, the KJV and NASB say ..in time of temptation fall away.

2 Corinthians 13:5 - Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test? Shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away fails the test.

Well dcon has said you do not have to show any fruit for three years after you get saved. And eternally grateful has stated it may take years for you to truly love God.

Jesus said in the time of testing they fell away. What did they fall away from? Nothing? In Luke14 Jesus speaks of people who set out without counting the cost, you could say a shallow commitment.
A question. If a person makes a commitment to Christ, though it is a shallow commitment, will God take them at their word and immediately place them in a saved state? Even though God knows it is not a commitment that will last? The answer has to be yes, unless you want a whole lot of scripture to oppose your belief.

 

[PennEd]

I hope you take this well, it is meant so. Are you sure you have peace discussing this subject? Only some, who have worried over verses I am quoting, can fall back into worry concerning them. I would not want that to happen to you. So are you sure this is a subject you can now discuss, without any problems to you, no negative fears or doubts would creep in?

Man.

I'm not loving saying this, but this SOUNDS like the one whispering'"Did God REALLY say....."

 

[mailmandan]

From GOT QUESTIONS...
Finally, this interpretation sees the “falling away” (Hebrews 6:6) as a reference to those who have tasted the truth but, not having come all the way to faith, fall away from even the revelation they have been given. The tasting of truth is not enough to keep them from falling away from it. They must come all the way to Christ in complete repentance and faith; otherwise, they in effect re-crucify Christ and treat Him contemptuously. Those who sin against Christ in such a way have no hope of restoration or forgiveness because they reject Him with full knowledge and conscious experience. They have concluded that Jesus should have been crucified, and they stand with His enemies. It is impossible to renew such to repentance.

I've heard 3 different interpretations for Hebrews 6:4-6. The loss of salvation view, the never saved in the first place view, the hypothetical view, but am not convinced the writer of Hebrews is saying that really saved people really lost their salvation. Verse 9 settles it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (calls them BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and permanently falling away do not accompany salvation.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html

 

[unclesilas]

Man.

I'm not loving saying this, but this SOUNDS like the one whispering'"Did God REALLY say....."

The above shows how lacking in discernment you really are