Not By Works
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I heard a preacher once say: "If we could lose our salvation, we all would."
@GodsGrace101 Why does it matter if its YOUR obedience maintaining your salvation, or if its GOD keeping you and preserving you? I'll tell you why, its all about WHO gets the GLORY for your salvation. If its you maintaining it, you get the glory, if its God maintaining you, God gets the glory. THATS WHAT I BELIEVE.
On a side-note:
I ate two cans of sardines, 2 eggs, potatoes, salmon, oranges, bread, salad and beef. I AM FULL!
Gotta get them gainz. I bet none of the works-salvation teaching heretics can beat me!
@GodsGrace101 Why does it matter if its YOUR obedience maintaining your salvation, or if its GOD keeping you and preserving you? I'll tell you why, its all about WHO gets the GLORY for your salvation. If its you maintaining it, you get the glory, if its God maintaining you, God gets the glory. THATS WHAT I BELIEVE.
On a side-note:
I ate two cans of sardines, 2 eggs, potatoes, salmon, oranges, bread, salad and beef. I AM FULL!
Gotta get them gainz. I bet none of the works-salvation teaching heretics can beat me!
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I have to take back what I said about: if correct understanding is what saves us, the law could have saved us, since it's impossible to know God in our understanding. But that's also what I was trying to say that now we know in part and understand in part and that it does not fit in our understanding. "If any man thinks he knows, he does not know as he should." To think we know is to stop learning and moving forward and as an example of why the law could not save us, but there is no possible way to know God in our understanding. We cant know the work of God from beginning to end in our understanding. That's from the book of Job.
"For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
What this verse does not say: to save them that understood.
Its the foolishness of preaching because we still don't understand even when we thing we do.
And if we can grasp the meaning of "If any man thinks he knows he does not know as he should." Then we are on the same page.
To save them that believe: Example of the thief on the cross who believed without being offended at having to die to his old life, Believe, meaning to follow Jesus in His suffering and death. Included contribution of others, post of obedience of faith.
We got to Love that we may learn:
Was impressed to look at the thief more closely since I believe that he represents us. You know "One shall be taken, one shall be left." He followed Jesus in His suffering without being offended and the first to do so, such humble beginning and with free will taken away, the man is to be envied. While the other though that if Jesus is God He should get saved without having to suffer. For some in china and Russia imprisoned for their faith is hard work in a labor camp "Some were tortured not accepting deliverance that they may obtain a better Resurrection." One out of 2 Christians who are tortured for their faith give in to the government to be released. Some offered their job back in a government approved church and not permitted to evangelize. I can hear you already, this has noting to do with salvation and your right, Jesus is the author of salvation we are just Acts of, "Faith that Works by Love," and we are not even for real until we suffer with Him. "He that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him" The other thief had to suffer just the same. We wont call suffering work otherwise he would get saved to lol and that would be mest up. Suffering is necessary then, I have the impression the believer did not sin while he was on the cross. And we know the other one did as "Whatsoever in not of Faith is sin." A while back the Lord told me: Stay on the cross. Its where we are identified with Jesus in His death and where we should be, to cease from sin.
What this verse does not say: to save them that understood.
Its the foolishness of preaching because we still don't understand even when we thing we do.
And if we can grasp the meaning of "If any man thinks he knows he does not know as he should." Then we are on the same page.
To save them that believe: Example of the thief on the cross who believed without being offended at having to die to his old life, Believe, meaning to follow Jesus in His suffering and death. Included contribution of others, post of obedience of faith.
We got to Love that we may learn:
Was impressed to look at the thief more closely since I believe that he represents us. You know "One shall be taken, one shall be left." He followed Jesus in His suffering without being offended and the first to do so, such humble beginning and with free will taken away, the man is to be envied. While the other though that if Jesus is God He should get saved without having to suffer. For some in china and Russia imprisoned for their faith is hard work in a labor camp "Some were tortured not accepting deliverance that they may obtain a better Resurrection." One out of 2 Christians who are tortured for their faith give in to the government to be released. Some offered their job back in a government approved church and not permitted to evangelize. I can hear you already, this has noting to do with salvation and your right, Jesus is the author of salvation we are just Acts of, "Faith that Works by Love," and we are not even for real until we suffer with Him. "He that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin." "If we suffer with Him we shall rule with Him" The other thief had to suffer just the same. We wont call suffering work otherwise he would get saved to lol and that would be mest up. Suffering is necessary then, I have the impression the believer did not sin while he was on the cross. And we know the other one did as "Whatsoever in not of Faith is sin." A while back the Lord told me: Stay on the cross. Its where we are identified with Jesus in His death and where we should be, to cease from sin.
The book of Job.
Oh I love that book.
Job 38-42 is a must read.
I remember reading
Job 40:1-5
1 Then the Lord said to Job,
2 “Do you still want to argue with the Almighty?
You are God’s critic, but do you have the answers?”
Job Responds to the LORD
3 Then Job replied to the Lord,
4 “I am nothing—how could I ever find the answers?
I will cover my mouth with my hand.
5 I have said too much already.
I have nothing more to say.”
Job 40:6
The LORD Challenges Job a Second Time (40:6–42:6)
The LORD Challenges Job Again
6 Then the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind:
Job 40:7
7 “Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me
Job 40:7
7 “Brace yourself like a man,
because I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them.
It blew my mind, in fact it terrified me a bit.
Over here in the UK the above is like waiting for a proper smacking.
Then when I thought about it, this is what I realised.
God allowed Job to lay his heart bear before him.
Ask questions, get it off your chest.
Then the whammy.
Now brace yourself.
You think you know all, but in fact you do not.
So now I'm going to ask you all these questions.
The concourse of 38-42.
But in fact I realised it was gentle, the purpose being restoration.
Job 42:1-6
Job Responds to the LORD
1 Then Job replied to the Lord:
2 “I know that you can do anything,
and no one can stop you.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorance?’
It is I—and I was talking about things I knew nothing about,
things far too wonderful for me.
4 You said, ‘Listen and I will speak!
I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them.’
5 I had only heard about you before,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
6 I take back everything I said,
and I sit in dust and ashes to show my repentance.”
Job 42:10
The LORD Restores Job
10 When Job prayed for his friends, the Lord restored his fortunes. In fact, the Lord gave him twice as much as before!
Truly amazing and very thought provoking.
Oh I love that book.
Job 38-42 is a must read.
I remember reading
Job 40:1-5
1 Then the Lord said to Job,
2 “Do you still want to argue with the Almighty?
You are God’s critic, but do you have the answers?”
Job Responds to the LORD
3 Then Job replied to the Lord,
4 “I am nothing—how could I ever find the answers?
I will cover my mouth with my hand.
5 I have said too much already.
I have nothing more to say.”
Job 40:6
The LORD Challenges Job a Second Time (40:6–42:6)
The LORD Challenges Job Again
6 Then the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind:
Job 40:7
7 “Now prepare yourself like a man;
I will question you, and you shall answer Me
Job 40:7
7 “Brace yourself like a man,
because I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them.
It blew my mind, in fact it terrified me a bit.
Over here in the UK the above is like waiting for a proper smacking.
Then when I thought about it, this is what I realised.
God allowed Job to lay his heart bear before him.
Ask questions, get it off your chest.
Then the whammy.
Now brace yourself.
You think you know all, but in fact you do not.
So now I'm going to ask you all these questions.
The concourse of 38-42.
But in fact I realised it was gentle, the purpose being restoration.
Job 42:1-6
Job Responds to the LORD
1 Then Job replied to the Lord:
2 “I know that you can do anything,
and no one can stop you.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that questions my wisdom with such ignorance?’
It is I—and I was talking about things I knew nothing about,
things far too wonderful for me.
4 You said, ‘Listen and I will speak!
I have some questions for you,
and you must answer them.’
5 I had only heard about you before,
but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
6 I take back everything I said,
and I sit in dust and ashes to show my repentance.”
Job 42:10
The LORD Restores Job
10 When Job prayed for his friends, the Lord restored his fortunes. In fact, the Lord gave him twice as much as before!
Truly amazing and very thought provoking.
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Paul wrote about works in almost every letter of his..if not every letter.
Romans 1:1:16 Paul is not ashamed of the gospel he preaches, both to the Jew and the Gentile.
He made an effort to preach to his Jewish brethren that we are not saved by works. They were no longer under the law. He clearly says we are justified by faith. Romans 5:1
Works do not justify a person...that would be Works of the Law.. Only faith justifies.
1 Corinthians 1:21
The cross seems like a dumb story to those that are perishing...
God has shown that the intelligence of the world is nothing compared to His knowledge and His salvation. Even preaching may seem silly... but this is how God saves us.
Why wouldn't I believe this?
(you just won't use scrpture...will you?)
The above is Philippians 1:6
Let's read all of it:
Philippians 1:5-11
5in view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now.
6For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
7For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me.
8For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
10so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
11having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Above Paul says we have to PARTICIPATE in the gospel.
He who began a good work in us will complete it. Of course, as long as we have faith in Him.
Paul says we must approve of what he says...live a good life full of love..a life Jesus will be able to say "you are blameless" on the Day of the Lord.
Paul ends by saying that THROUGH JESUS we can be filled with the righteousness (of God, not our own) to the glory of God. We glorify God when we obey Him.
You're wrong. I DO believe that he that believes on the Son has, or is having (as you say) eternal life.
It is only temporary if you make it so. For as long as you believe....you have eternal life.
But, yes, JESUS DID say it could be temporary:
Luke 8:13 JESUS SAID
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "
Mathew 13:21 JESUS SAID
21"yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "
1 Corinthians 10:12
12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
Throughout the N.T. we are told to be careful not to fall away.
To fall away means you are attached to something first, in order to be able to fall away.
All the N.T. writers WARNED us about conducting ourselves in a proper manner.
Paul did in all his letters.
I think it would be wise of us to listen to him...and to Jesus.
Romans 1:1:16 Paul is not ashamed of the gospel he preaches, both to the Jew and the Gentile.
He made an effort to preach to his Jewish brethren that we are not saved by works. They were no longer under the law. He clearly says we are justified by faith. Romans 5:1
Works do not justify a person...that would be Works of the Law.. Only faith justifies.
1 Corinthians 1:21
The cross seems like a dumb story to those that are perishing...
God has shown that the intelligence of the world is nothing compared to His knowledge and His salvation. Even preaching may seem silly... but this is how God saves us.
Why wouldn't I believe this?
(you just won't use scrpture...will you?)
The above is Philippians 1:6
Let's read all of it:
Philippians 1:5-11
5in view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now.
6For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
7For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me.
8For God is my witness, how I long for you all with the affection of Christ Jesus.
9And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment,
10so that you may approve the things that are excellent, in order to be sincere and blameless until the day of Christ;
11having been filled with the fruit of righteousness which comes through Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.
Above Paul says we have to PARTICIPATE in the gospel.
He who began a good work in us will complete it. Of course, as long as we have faith in Him.
Paul says we must approve of what he says...live a good life full of love..a life Jesus will be able to say "you are blameless" on the Day of the Lord.
Paul ends by saying that THROUGH JESUS we can be filled with the righteousness (of God, not our own) to the glory of God. We glorify God when we obey Him.
You're wrong. I DO believe that he that believes on the Son has, or is having (as you say) eternal life.
It is only temporary if you make it so. For as long as you believe....you have eternal life.
But, yes, JESUS DID say it could be temporary:
Luke 8:13 JESUS SAID
13“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. "
Mathew 13:21 JESUS SAID
21"yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away. "
1 Corinthians 10:12
12Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
Throughout the N.T. we are told to be careful not to fall away.
To fall away means you are attached to something first, in order to be able to fall away.
All the N.T. writers WARNED us about conducting ourselves in a proper manner.
Paul did in all his letters.
I think it would be wise of us to listen to him...and to Jesus.
U
Of course you love to post scripture, you post scripture thinking you have an edge by doing this and then use it as a weapon to insult the person you are arguing with, interesting though, it still does not magically turn a wrong theology into a right theology.
The scribes and pharisees knew scripture, some did not even recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
Knowing the words is far, far different from understanding the words in the way they were intended to be understood by God, that is namely within the Truth of the eternal assurance of the born again believer.
The scribes and pharisees knew scripture, some did not even recognize Jesus as their Messiah.
Knowing the words is far, far different from understanding the words in the way they were intended to be understood by God, that is namely within the Truth of the eternal assurance of the born again believer.
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