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We're frozen solid here in Michigan. With a long week of bitter cold ahead. 
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Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
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Yeah i think monday is supposed to be nice, (if you call upoer 30s night ce..lol) then the temps drop to coldest of year for at least three days in Ohio
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire.There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:41-42
JLB
- they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness
JLB
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We're frozen solid here in Michigan. With a long week of bitter cold ahead.
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1st, my reference point to 70AD. Was the Temple is destroyed & thus nobody could continue animal sacrifices. This leaves ONLY ONE PREACHABLE MESSAGE.
2ndly, I never said there is no moral law. It's covered in love God 1st & love your neighbor. Having said that, if a believer does transgress any law. He has an advocate to who already paid for ALL/ANY sin.
People often take Rom 3:31 out of context & build a doctrine. Read the 10 vs leading up to vs 31. All are teaching righteous & justification thru FAITH without the works of the law. vs 27 is clear, it's the LAW of FAITH that's being established.
Find a post on Rom 3:31 here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...look-at-mt-5-17-18.182292/page-4#post-3830665
Here is an answer to your 1st question
New Covenant ratification:
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(NOTE: While Christ is alive the old covenant is in full force)
John 7:
38 Jesus said; He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
(NOTE: Jesus foretells of the giving/out pouring of the Holy Spirit to be given to believers. AFTER his glorification = Resurrection)
The ratification of the New Covenant is a process, that begins at Christ's resurrection. Next, Christ enters into the presence of God, the Holy Place made without hands Heb 9:24. And cleanses the Heavenly sanctuary with his sinless blood.
Christ now receives the Promise of the Father Lk 24:49 & Acts 1:4 reread Jn 7:39 above. It's here God the Father transfers full control of the Holy Spirit to the Son.
The final step in the New Covenant ratification is the outpouring/Baptism of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which only Christ can do. See Matt 3:11.
It's here that the center piece of Jewish life = Levitical Priesthood & Temple sacrifices are now retired/rendered obsolete.
2ndly, I never said there is no moral law. It's covered in love God 1st & love your neighbor. Having said that, if a believer does transgress any law. He has an advocate to who already paid for ALL/ANY sin.
People often take Rom 3:31 out of context & build a doctrine. Read the 10 vs leading up to vs 31. All are teaching righteous & justification thru FAITH without the works of the law. vs 27 is clear, it's the LAW of FAITH that's being established.
Find a post on Rom 3:31 here:
https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...look-at-mt-5-17-18.182292/page-4#post-3830665
Here is an answer to your 1st question
New Covenant ratification:
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(NOTE: While Christ is alive the old covenant is in full force)
John 7:
38 Jesus said; He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified)
(NOTE: Jesus foretells of the giving/out pouring of the Holy Spirit to be given to believers. AFTER his glorification = Resurrection)
The ratification of the New Covenant is a process, that begins at Christ's resurrection. Next, Christ enters into the presence of God, the Holy Place made without hands Heb 9:24. And cleanses the Heavenly sanctuary with his sinless blood.
Christ now receives the Promise of the Father Lk 24:49 & Acts 1:4 reread Jn 7:39 above. It's here God the Father transfers full control of the Holy Spirit to the Son.
The final step in the New Covenant ratification is the outpouring/Baptism of the indwelling Holy Spirit, which only Christ can do. See Matt 3:11.
It's here that the center piece of Jewish life = Levitical Priesthood & Temple sacrifices are now retired/rendered obsolete.
U
Good, I am glad.
You are a smart woman think!! Does dead mean non existent .....NO!!!
It did exist but now it is inoperative, not being manifested, not being shown to a lost and dying world
Okay......
This is saving faith, the faith that saves us from sin and gives eternal life (eternal life meaning we partake of God's divine nature)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
This saving faith comes from hearing the true full Gospel, which most people do not btw....
Jesus is the object of our belief/faith because of the work He accomplished for us on the cross and His Resurrection
This belief and saving faith is when we come to Him empty of our own self effort to gain salvation, knowing that it is work His only that saves and it is a complete
By exerting this faith we are Born Again....we are regenerated, redeemed and justified eternally because we have received His eternal life
The church is still one of oppression and so they teach the believer WILL be good and do good works and persevere. Not really under grace then?
So the free gift is not so free anymore is it, now we have to do our part or we are not really saved
Have we become automatons? Do His children not get lost....we still have the flesh, the world and Satan to contend with everyday.
The Lordship Salvation doctrine stemming from our friend from the Reformation does not trust Grace really, it is just more external law and obedience
Yet I say to you, abiding is an internal positional place in the Love and Grace of God, we are hid in Him, in Him we do not need external oppressive saying you WILL be good. It is instead we SHOULD do good works, we not automatons.
James is very clear we will be judge by the Law of Liberty. What does that mean, we have choices to make on this earth but once we are born again our salvation is secure.
Yet not everyone knows how to abide, and they get lost and they mess up, and then the Christians say well they were never a Christian, they did not have a real relationship with God and were not saved, it was just mental assent.
Why did Paul write what He did to Corinth if everyone WILL be obedient.
Soon as you say will, you have the perfect formula for judgement .....sounds like the modern day church, the big divide between law keeping and licentious because they have not understood Grace
From James' point of view he is writing to believers therefore he is not addressing false faith, he is however addressing faith that is not being made manifest, inoperative.
Most people are operating under the law still and do not really know it.
You are a smart woman think!! Does dead mean non existent .....NO!!!
It did exist but now it is inoperative, not being manifested, not being shown to a lost and dying world
Okay......
This is saving faith, the faith that saves us from sin and gives eternal life (eternal life meaning we partake of God's divine nature)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
This saving faith comes from hearing the true full Gospel, which most people do not btw....
Jesus is the object of our belief/faith because of the work He accomplished for us on the cross and His Resurrection
This belief and saving faith is when we come to Him empty of our own self effort to gain salvation, knowing that it is work His only that saves and it is a complete
By exerting this faith we are Born Again....we are regenerated, redeemed and justified eternally because we have received His eternal life
The church is still one of oppression and so they teach the believer WILL be good and do good works and persevere. Not really under grace then?
So the free gift is not so free anymore is it, now we have to do our part or we are not really saved
Have we become automatons? Do His children not get lost....we still have the flesh, the world and Satan to contend with everyday.
The Lordship Salvation doctrine stemming from our friend from the Reformation does not trust Grace really, it is just more external law and obedience
Yet I say to you, abiding is an internal positional place in the Love and Grace of God, we are hid in Him, in Him we do not need external oppressive saying you WILL be good. It is instead we SHOULD do good works, we not automatons.
James is very clear we will be judge by the Law of Liberty. What does that mean, we have choices to make on this earth but once we are born again our salvation is secure.
Yet not everyone knows how to abide, and they get lost and they mess up, and then the Christians say well they were never a Christian, they did not have a real relationship with God and were not saved, it was just mental assent.
Why did Paul write what He did to Corinth if everyone WILL be obedient.
Soon as you say will, you have the perfect formula for judgement .....sounds like the modern day church, the big divide between law keeping and licentious because they have not understood Grace
From James' point of view he is writing to believers therefore he is not addressing false faith, he is however addressing faith that is not being made manifest, inoperative.
Most people are operating under the law still and do not really know it.
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You misunderstand the point James is making because you fail to see the method he is using to argue his point.The example of Abraham he gave proves hevwas not speaking of a mere profession of faith.Unless you are also claiming Abraham was a mere professor.Even if you did not see the method James was using to argue his point when he says;
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"(James 2:14)
Then the example of Abraham should have alleviated that misunderstanding.Read it again:
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."(James 2:21-24)
Are you saying Abraham was only a professor?Do you understand what is meant by:
"And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness", ?
I still prefer the plain words of James than your opinion.I hope you would too.
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"(James 2:14)
Then the example of Abraham should have alleviated that misunderstanding.Read it again:
"Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."(James 2:21-24)
Are you saying Abraham was only a professor?Do you understand what is meant by:
"And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness", ?
I still prefer the plain words of James than your opinion.I hope you would too.
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James is teaching no such thing.There is a meaning for justify/justification which has nothing to do with proving anything to others.This is an invention to support a false teaching.Justification is only needed before God and James states clearly that this is an issue of salvation not an issue of proving anything before men.Read it and accept rather than attempting to explain it away:
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"
Can faith alone save?
"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?"
Can faith alone save?
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That is quite a big accusation to make.
Can you back this claim up?
Your accusation is normally a broad brush statement made by those who believe we are saved by grace thorough faith and not works.
Normally as "So you can sin all you want and be saved"
But you have stated that person's on this thread have said they can.
You need to back this up Fran.
Can you back this claim up?
Your accusation is normally a broad brush statement made by those who believe we are saved by grace thorough faith and not works.
Normally as "So you can sin all you want and be saved"
But you have stated that person's on this thread have said they can.
You need to back this up Fran.
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