Not By Works

[Endoscopy]

I do not know if you are still on this thread, but something was mentioned in today's Sermon, that made me think of you. Here is the Proof that your teachers have taught you an UNTRUTH.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (NASB)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,

There IS the proof that WE are BORN AGAIN, Past Tense, before our life long journey of Sanctification Can begin, becoming more and more like Like Christ.

Your INSTANT OBJECTION to our claiming the Holy Trinity is comprised of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, is IN YOUR OPINION Pagan Nonsense. Carefully consider these Verses, and ALL OF SCRIPTURE was Inspired by GOD:

Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Colossians 1:19 (NASB)
19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
10 “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
11 I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me.

Malachi 3:6 (HCSB)
6 “Because I, Yahweh, have not changed,
you descendants of Jacob have not been destroyed.

Luke 2:11 (HCSB)
11 Today a Savior, who is Messiah the Lord, was born for you in the city of David.


Think about it.

If Yahweh and Jesus are not the SAME DEITY, you have created a contradiction in the Word of GOD.

ONE DEITY made up of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, and NO it is not Pagan Nonsense, IT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH.


My advise is flee those who have been teaching you untruths.

The great commission is proof of the trinity!!

Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission) AMPC (Amplified Classic)

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).

 

[J70x7]

Did you bother to read what Jesus said to those who were proclaiming their works? I had problems understanding this scripture when I was younger. Then I realized that a true Christian would talk about their faith in him and not their actions since grace is a free gift from God. By grace through faith in Jesus we are saved and not by works. The basic gospel message.

[26] For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? [27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. [28] Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

[6] Who will render to every man according to his works. [7] To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: [8] But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. [9] Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. [10] But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[J70x7]

The great commission is proof of the trinity!!

Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission) AMPC (Amplified Classic)

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time

 

[Endoscopy]

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time

I reject your theology!
We all sin and come short of the glory of God!!
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Period!!!

 

[O_Dude123]

The great commission is proof of the trinity!!

Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission) AMPC (Amplified Classic)

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).

Truth be told—This is a false doctrine, the trinity says they are diverse, but the same, [Meanwhile Jesus was telling us all the while, I and my father are one] the trinity says God the father and Jesus Christ his son, is equal [Jesus Christ told us, my Father is greater than I].
— because true believers and Jesus are one, does not make us equal. Equality is of the devil.

We have one God, the father of Our Lord Jesus, One Lord, - Jesus Christ, One Spirit, The Spirit of God.

Just the way Moses was a made a God to the people of Israel, so also was Jesus made our God, Lord and Savior, but a greater prophet than Moses.

1 Corinthians 15:28 (KJV)
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Even now so, because we do not see Jesus According to the flesh anymore, The Lord Jesus is the spirit of Liberty.

One should not compare men of the earth to God, True Christians were warned about GENEALOGY, the bible is to make us wise unto salvation, not to know the geneaology of our God.

 

[O_Dude123]

I reject your theology!
We all sin and come short of the glory of God!!
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Period!!!

You are rejecting the doctrine of Christ.

Saved by grace - Jesus Christ saved us, we didn’t work for it, now that you’re saved, you have fear for God and tremble at his feet. One does not sinn anymore, we do God’s will. True Christians who are led by the spirit of God, do not sin, whoever sin is of the devil. Read Matthew 16.

One who is led by the spirit, question yourself sir, where does the sin comes from?

 

[O_Dude123]

I reject your theology!
We all sin and come short of the glory of God!!
We are saved by grace through faith in Jesus. Period!!!

We all sinned!!

2 Corinthians 13:7-8 (KJV)
Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth.

one cannot call himself a Christian and still continue to sin. Unless such one is a child, which eventually will grow into a young man, and then into a a father.
Read the epistle of John.

Because one who does not bear fruit will be cut off.
If you’re not doing good works, then you’re doing evil works, because you must do works. So the type of works, your life, shows if you’re living the life of Christ or the life of sin, being a Christian is not a lip thing, it is not by reading the bible, blessed are those who hear, and do it.
Whoever hears the word of God and dispise, is a Liar.
Note you cannot obey the word of God without God’s spirit.

 

[posthuman]

​

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.​

For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.​

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.​

So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.​

(2 Peter 1:3-12)​

​

 

[posthuman]

Truth be told—This is a false doctrine, the trinity says they are diverse, but the same, [Meanwhile Jesus was telling us all the while, I and my father are one] the trinity says God the father and Jesus Christ his son, is equal [Jesus Christ told us, my Father is greater than I].
— because true believers and Jesus are one, does not make us equal. Equality is of the devil.

the sanhedrin sentenced Him to death on the charge of blasphemy, making Himself equal to God.
was He guilty?

possible scenarios:

• guilty
  • in fact claimed equality with God
    • was not equal to God
• not guilty
  • did not claim equality with God
    • truth of the matter immaterial
• not guilty
  • in fact claimed equality with God
    • is in fact equal to God

 

[posthuman]

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness.

this is amazing !!

we have everything we need for a godly life, how?

through knowledge of Him​

 

[mailmandan]

[26] For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul? [27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels: and then will he render to every man according to his works. [28] Amen I say to you, there are some of them that stand here, that shall not taste death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 16:27 says "reward/repay" each according to his works, not save each according to his works. *In 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, notice work endures, receive a reward, works burned, suffer loss of reward, but he shall be saved. *We are not saved by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

[6] Who will render to every man according to his works. [7] To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: [8] But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. [9] Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. [10] But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, then one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works, as demonstrated by you. However, as you read and study these passages, it's critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Once again, also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

 

[lightbearer]

​

His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. Through these He has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.​

For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.​

Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.​

So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are firmly established in the truth you now have.​

(2 Peter 1:3-12)​

​

What translation is that posthuman? I like J.P. Greens translation. The reason being, look how he translates verse five. He takes "I" all self effort out of it.

As His divine power has given to us all things pertaining to life and godliness through the full knowledge of the One calling us through glory and virtue, by which means He has given to us the very great and precious promises, so that through these you might be partakers of the divine nature, escaping from the corruption in the world by lust. But also in this very thing, bringing in all diligence, filling in your faith with virtue; and virtue with knowledge; and knowledge with self-control; and self-control with patience; and patience with godliness; and godliness with brotherly love; and brotherly love with love. For these things being in you, and abounding, they will make you not idle, not unfruitful in the full knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the one in whom these things are not present is blind, being shortsighted, taking on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins in time past. On account of this, brothers, rather be diligent to make sure of your calling and election; for doing these things, you will not ever fall into sin .
(2Pe 1:3-10 LITV-TSP)

But also in this very thing, (the Divine Nature) bringing in all diligence, filling in your faith with virtue; and virtue with knowledge; and knowledge with self-control; and self-control with patience; and patience with godliness; and godliness with brotherly love; and brotherly love with love. For these things being in you, and abounding, they will make you not idle, not unfruitful in the full knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Divine Nature brings in all diligence, filling in your faith with virtue; and virtue with knowledge; and knowledge with self-control; and self-control with patience; and patience with godliness; and godliness with brotherly love; and brotherly love with love. For these things being in you, and abounding, they will make you not idle, not unfruitful in the full knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

2 Peter 1:10
Wherefore, brethren, labour the more, that by good works you may make sure your calling and election. For doing these things, you shall not sin at any time

By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, believers can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected.

Romans 8:30 says, And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. All of them.

bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of and assurance of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being saved (FAITH) effect of being saved (FRUIT). Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart? The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source.

In verse 10, we are exhorted to give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.
Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

 

[Endoscopy]

Truth be told—This is a false doctrine, the trinity says they are diverse, but the same, [Meanwhile Jesus was telling us all the while, I and my father are one] the trinity says God the father and Jesus Christ his son, is equal [Jesus Christ told us, my Father is greater than I].
— because true believers and Jesus are one, does not make us equal. Equality is of the devil.

We have one God, the father of Our Lord Jesus, One Lord, - Jesus Christ, One Spirit, The Spirit of God.

Just the way Moses was a made a God to the people of Israel, so also was Jesus made our God, Lord and Savior, but a greater prophet than Moses.

1 Corinthians 15:28 (KJV)
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Even now so, because we do not see Jesus According to the flesh anymore, The Lord Jesus is the spirit of Liberty.

One should not compare men of the earth to God, True Christians were warned about GENEALOGY, the bible is to make us wise unto salvation, not to know the geneaology of our God.

So you are stating this quote of Jesus telling his disciples what to do is a lie. One of the mysteries in the Bible is the concept of the trinity. I have heard several discriptions of it from ministers but all end up saying in the end it is a feeble attempt to try and understand God. God at the same time is one and three. I don't understand but am forced to believe it based on what Jesus and other authors of the Bible stated.

Methinks you need to rethink that statement. Calling Jesus a liar is definitely a very bad thing to do!!

 

[Endoscopy]

By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, believers can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits will confirm it. Make sure you have been called and elected.

Romans 8:30 says, And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. All of them.

bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety). To practice these qualities gives evidence of and assurance of salvation, though they are not the basis (or cause) of salvation. They are the effect. Cause of being saved (FAITH) effect of being saved (FRUIT). Those who are born of God practice righteousness and not sin (1 John 3:9-10).

For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (vs. 8). For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins (vs. 9). What is the object of the forgetting? Is this forgetting temporary because this believer had fallen into error or does this lack of fruit exist because this person’s "cleansing" was merely an external reformation that did not come from a truly changed heart? The genuineness of their profession will be demonstrated as they express these virtues. These fruits confirm their divine source.

In verse 10, we are exhorted to give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.
Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times and rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

ROFL
You are raising an issue that Calvinism and Arminianism are in total disagreement over. Both have scripture to back up their views. Since these views are outside of the creeds the early elders created defining what a Christian must believe we are to agree to disagree about these issues. The different gospel preaching denominations are evidence of this.

At creation God knew the end from the beginning. From this statement Calvinists claim God at times reaches into a person and causes them to open their hearts to the concept of God. Arminians claim God just foresaw what decision each person would make. This is a never ending debate where we must just agree to disagree. We will know after we meet Jesus.

 

[Studyman]

He cannot answer truthfully....and the tragic truth....He himself actually peddles the Long Haired Shampoo Commercial Jesus that he speaks against by the very Catholicized dogma of works/law keeping that he peddles....!

And yet it is you two who refuse to answer the question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are rejecting the doctrine of Christ.

Saved by grace - Jesus Christ saved us, we didn’t work for it, now that you’re saved, you have fear for God and tremble at his feet. One does not sinn anymore, we do God’s will. True Christians who are led by the spirit of God, do not sin, whoever sin is of the devil. Read Matthew 16.

One who is led by the spirit, question yourself sir, where does the sin comes from?

If we say we have no sin, we decieve ourselves and there is no truth in us.

I will trust the apostle John..and in doing so. Not be decieved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Matthew 16:27 says "reward/repay" each according to his works, not save each according to his works. *In 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, notice work endures, receive a reward, works burned, suffer loss of reward, but he shall be saved. *We are not saved by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

If one reads Romans 2:6-10 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, then one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works, as demonstrated by you. However, as you read and study these passages, it's critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving salvation.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Once again, also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9).

When will people realise

Gifts are not earned. If they are, they are not gifts

Grace is freey given, no rewarded/ If it is of works, it is no longer of grace.

When will they humble themselves. And stop being like the pharisee, and fall to their knees like the sinner?

 

[gb9]

And yet it is you two who refuse to answer the question.

you have been asked, for over a week, to discuss a piece of Scripture, you refuse and attack the person who asked you to study and discus, and you criticize others for not answering a question from you.

you are a joke. everyone should put you on ignore. i'll go first.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

you have been asked, for over a week, to discuss a piece of Scripture, you refuse and attack the person who asked you to study and discus, and you criticize others for not answering a question from you.

you are a joke. everyone should put you on ignore. i'll go first.

Been there done that. Time to start feeding this guy by continuing to Respond. As long as people continue to respond. He will still continue to attack