Not By Works

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

Jesus tells us both what the will of the Father and what the work of God is:
"he that doeth the will of the Father" - what is the Father's will? John 6:40, the will of the Father is that we look to and believe in Jesus Christ. just like Jesus says in John 3:14 also, just as the serpent in the wilderness. look to Him and believe. believe what specifically?
"our works" - what must we do to do the works of God? can't be any plainer, dude:

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

(John 6:28-29)

look to the Son and believe Him. believe what, specifically?

if you believe that even your righteous works are filthy rags, come the day of the Lord are you going to be saying but Lord, look at the works i did? see how obedient i was, didn't i keep this law and that law? didn't i do this and say those things to people?
nah.
if you believe that nothing but the mercy of God can possibly justify you before Him, there's only one thing you can say. have mercy, o God! i have nothing to redeem me but your Son whom you sent! my only trust is in Him!

that is conspicuously absent in what the people described in Matthew 7:21 have to say for themselves. they boast. do they boast of the 'wrong works' ? absolutely. the work required by God is to look to and put your trust in the Son, just as it's written. to cease from works you may ascribe to yourself. in this is peace and assurance: rest for your soul

the work of righteousness will be peace,

and the service of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever

(Isaiah 32:17)

quietness, not boasting. confidence, not doubt.

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

J70x7 said:

all of our righteous works are as filthy rags

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

Since ancient times no one has heard,

no ear has perceived,

no eye has seen any God besides You,

Who acts on behalf of those who wait for Him.

You come to the help of those who gladly do right,

who remember Your ways.

But when we continued to sin against them,

You were angry.

How then can we be saved?
(Isaiah 64:4-5)

BillG · Dec 9, 2018

Studyman said:

What are these disobedient works?

They claimed great works but were rejected because he never knew them.
My thoughts on this is that they obviously never knew him either, they claim they did.

If we look at the verses preceding the ones under discussion

Matthew 7:15-20

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
(Matt. 12:33; Luke 6:43–45)
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Which leads to

Matthew 7:21-23

I Never Knew You
(Luke 6:46; 13:26, 27)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

So is it possible that those who practice lawlessness are actually those who come in sheep's clothing but are infact ravenous wolves?
If that's the case then they have no interest in knowing Jesus.
They are only interested in themselves, their ego and personal gain.
They are not the sheep that Jesus accepted but the goats that Jesus rejected.

So why did he not know them?
If he had have known them why did he not say "I knew you once but?

We know that works will be judged yet we also know

1 Corinthians 3:9-15
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Which confirms what Jesus said

Matthew 7:24-27

Build on the Rock
(Luke 6:47–49)
24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
26 “But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

What is the will of our Father, what is the work of our Father?
What does God want from us, why did the word become flesh, why did Jesus die for us, what was achieved on the cross?

Are we reconciled to God by faith or works?

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions

J70x7 · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

TO BAD FOR YOU!

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

J70x7 said:

GUESS WE NEED A SAVIOUR HUH?

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

BillG said:

what is sheep's clothing?

____________________

J70x7 · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

1 Corinthians 10:16
The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

J70x7 said:

the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking

J70x7 · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

1 Corinthians 11:27
Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord.

BillG · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

I was going to say wool (unless they have been sheared (or biblically pruned

))

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

J70x7 said:

Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with Him,

we will also live with Him;

if we endure,

we will also reign with Him.

If we disown Him,

He will also disown us;

if we are faithless,

He remains faithful,

for He cannot disown Himself.

BillG · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

Isaiah 55:1-3

An Invitation to Abundant Life
1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

J70x7 said:

So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say,

'we are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.'

(Luke 17:10)

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

BillG said:

Isaiah 55:1-3

An Invitation to Abundant Life
1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.

ooh! real food!
real drink!

J70x7 · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

John 6:54
Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.

BillG · Dec 9, 2018

posthuman said:

Thing is I don't like wine.
Champagne yes and a nice cold lager.

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

BillG said:

lol skin, too

say you're a ravening lupine false prophet-teacher, and you're going to attack a bunch of Christian 'sheep' by slipping in unawares.
what kind of 'wool' you going to pull over what kind of eyes?
maybe you do good works. blend in. sing in the choir, quote scripture etc. maybe cast out some demons and heal some lepers.

posthuman · Dec 9, 2018

BillG said:

((sees about exchanging Christmas present)) . . .

Studyman · Dec 9, 2018

How are the creation of God's Word, and the instruction He created beforehand that I should walk in them "My human exertion"? where in the Bible has obedience to God been called "filthy Rags"?

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities,(Lawlessness) like the wind, have taken us away. 7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

I guess this part of Isaiah's teaching didn't help promote your agenda.

God's Righteousness is not filthy works. Shall I post the volumes of Scriptures where Isaiah talks about the Holiness of God's instruction? Or do you only believe this partial sentence?

If a man denies Himself, and submits to the Righteousness of God as did Jesus, he is no longer doing "His own Righteous Works". As it is written: "Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It's in your Bible.

Only a man who has been convinced that God's Laws, and Pagan Laws are no different, "just a bunch of laws" that are "against us" can one believe God's Righteous, Holy, and "good" Work's are "Filthy Works".

The implication that God's Laws, like His Sabbath, are Holy until I "strive" to follow them, then they become filthy is foolish beyond compare. But hey, the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time taught you couldn't walk and eat a strawberry on His Sabbath. Maybe if you understood and believed the scripture "Man is evil above all things and desperately wicked" you might understand the difference between God's Works, and Man's Works.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God. (The Definition of God's Righteousness) but with the flesh (My righteous works) the law of sin. (which is death.)

Isn't the whole purpose of repentance, according to Paul, to Repent, turn to God and "DO WORKS" worthy of repentance?

Acts 26:
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Shall these works be the Holy, Perfect, Righteous "works of God", or do you preach we are "FREE" to create our own righteousness?

Not By Works

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