Not By Works

[mailmandan]

That's exactly what he's teaching.

His argument sounds similar to a statement made by a Roman Catholic who I was once in a discussion with and he said:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, Works of mercy and charity, Obeying his commandments, Doing the will of the Father etc..

Notice how this Roman Catholic re-defined faith to INCLUDE works, yet he also claimed to me that he does not teach salvation by works. Absolute contradiction and Roman Catholic smoke and mirrors.

 

[BillG]

Hey Bill! Hope you had a great thanksgiving.

Hi bud.

We don't do Thanksgiving over here like my American buddies do.
I was at work sat at my desk eating egg mayo sandwiches.

I hope you ALL had a good day though.

Maybe next year I'll have a Turkey sandwich and join in over this side of the pond.

 

[posthuman]

Mark 7:
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

No, your religion is not imaginary. You preach, as do "many" who call Him Lord, that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by obeying God's Commandments. I have pointed out this lie over and over, not with my words, but with the Words of the same God you claim has already given you immortality. But you reject them outright, choosing instead to follow the teaching of the religious franchises of the land. And many other such things you preach.

The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time were not "trying" or "Striving" to obey God. Nothing you say, no amount of Lip service to God, no scripture can be twisted to make your preaching in this matter truth. You can preach these things in Christ's name. Claim Him as your God, give Him all the credit for everything you do. but none of that will cover the lie, the insidious falsehood that you promote. You can mock those who try and help you, insult those who point these things out as is common among religious man. But nothing will change the truth about the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, and the religion they created in spite of their own God.

I'm not interested in analogies which promote what I have already proven by the Word of God are falsehoods. When you can humble yourself to the truth about the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time, then maybe you will be able to discern the truth about the religions of the land today. Until then:

7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

did you look at the link i gave you or not

 

[TruthTalk]

So how much " believing " does it take to receive salvation ? Where is that line where one is " believing " enough , or just had one doubt to many , and lost their belief ?

Get real , your understanding is as wrong as those who think obedience is what saving Faith is .

Hi Pisteuo, it would be helpful for everyone here if you would please tell us what Christian Church you are associated with, the reason I ask this is because your post sounds like you are insecure in what you believe.

Thank you and God bless!

 

[preacher4truth]

His argument sounds similar to a statement made by a Roman Catholic who I was once in a discussion with and he said:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, Eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, Works of mercy and charity, Obeying his commandments, Doing the will of the Father etc..

Notice how this Roman Catholic re-defined faith to INCLUDE works, yet he also claimed to me that he does not teach salvation by works. Absolute contradiction and Roman Catholic smoke and mirrors.

He's heretical but gets a pass on here. His posts get "likes."

 

[BillG]

Isaiah42:3
"A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out. In faithfulness he will
bring forth justice;

TT,

One of my favourite verses you have posted.
It brings tears to my eyes every time I read it.

What a loving and compassionate Father we have.
He knows the wheat from the tares.

Psalms 51:16-17
16 For You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
You do not delight in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

Psalms 40:6-10
6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
7 Then I said, “Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”
9 I have proclaimed the good news of righteousness
In the great assembly;
Indeed, I do not restrain my lips,
O Lord, You Yourself know.
10 I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth
From the great assembly.

Thank you brother for posting that verse.

 

[BillG]

Hebrews 10:5-10

Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will
(cf. Ps. 40:6–8)
5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified

40:6 The Lord takes pleasure in those who obediently come to Him with praise on their lips (1 Sam. 15:22, 23). My ears You have opened: The Lord not only gives us ears to hear His word, but also grants us understanding so that we can truly obey Him.
40:7, 8 Behold, I come: David brings his sacrifice, but his focus is on presenting his own life to the Lord (Rom. 12:1, 2). According to the Book of Hebrews, Jesus spoke these words to the Father (Heb. 10:4–6). Delight is related to the word desire in v. 6. What brings pleasure to God will also bring delight to His people.
40:11, 12 Do not withhold: Even after the experience of deliverance with which the psalm begins, David has another reason to turn to the Lord in renewed prayer. The Hebrew for Your tender mercies (which can also mean “womb”) refers to God’s affection for us. In effect, David is asking the Lord to surround him with warmth and comfort that is practically maternal.
40:13–15 deliver me: David does not ask for forgiveness of sin here (contrast 51:3, 4), but for deliverance from powerful enemies. Aha, aha: David’s enemies are all around him, taunting him mercilessly (35:21).

 

[VCO]

So how much " believing " does it take to receive salvation ? Where is that line where one is " believing " enough , or just had one doubt to many , and lost their belief ?

Get real , your understanding is as wrong as those who think obedience is what saving Faith is .

Now that is a question a JEWISH CHRISTIAN can answer in a Heartbeat. You see unlike ENGLISH that has several definitions or degrees for the term BELIEVING, the Jews only have ONE. To genuinely Believe something you must be willing to PUT YOUR WHOLE WEIGHT OR TRUST ON THAT WHICH YOU CLAIM TO BELIEVE IN.

Here is an example of what that means, the came from the late Zola Levitt.

If two Jews walked up to a frozen over lake in early winter.

And Jew #1 said to Jew #2, "Do you believe the ice is thick enough to walk on yet?"

And Jew #2 said, "Yes, I do believe that it is thick enough to walk on." And then just stuck one TOE out to test the ice.

Jew #1 would start to scream: "LIAR! LIAR! If you really BELIEVED THE ICE WAS THICK ENOUGH, you would have boldly stepped OUT THERE with both feet and put your whole weight on that ice."


So in the JEWISH BELIEVER'S mindset, if you are UNWILLING to Put your whole weight and TRUST on JESUS for your SALVATION, YOU ARE LYING ABOUT TRULY BELIEVING IN JESUS, for whatever reason.

 

[Studyman]

The text does not say Eve was convinced she would not die, either. That is what the serpent said to her. "You will not surely die." But, again, to read into the text that she was convinced within her own self is going beyond what the text actually says. She could have eaten of the forbidden tree simply hoping she would never die. But we know that was the wrong tree for that, don't we? Again, hoping for something and being convinced of it are two separate things; the text says neither. The text does not say what you claim it does. Yet you do not see how you are reading that into Scripture, when the words you say are not what is written?

I'm not going to argue a lot about whether "Deceived " and "Convinced to believe a lie" are not the same things. Nowhere is the text is "Hope" even mentioned yet you insert it into the conversation.

I might also add that since the Christ said I am to "Live by" Every Word of God, I must also look to other Spirit inspired Word's of God to understand scripture.

The "Text" says Eve was deceived. Surely you believe she was deceived.

de·ceive
/dəˈsēv/
verb
past tense: deceived; past participle: deceived

1. (of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.

So in reality I'm am not adding to the Text at all, Rather, following the perfect instructions of the Christ and "Including" all the Texts about her. This way I can understand what the true message the Christ is showing me in this example for my edification.

No offence, but I don't see how you can, using God's Word, say she wasn't "convinced" of something that was not true.

I would give you this one, except the scriptures were pretty clear. Eve was deceived, which translates into being convinced into believing something that was not true. Since God speaks the truth, she must have been deceived, or convinced into believing something that is not true from "another voice".

I appreciate your thoughts on this Megenta, but I think it's pretty clear. Eve was definitely convinced of a lie.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I'm not going to argue a lot about whether "Deceived " and "Convinced to believe a lie" are not the same things. Nowhere is the text is "Hope" even mentioned yet you insert it into the conversation.

I might also add that since the Christ said I am to "Live by" Every Word of God, I must also look to other Spirit inspired Word's of God to understand scripture.

The "Text" says Eve was deceived. Surely you believe she was deceived.

de·ceive
/dəˈsēv/
verb
past tense: deceived; past participle: deceived

1. (of a person) cause (someone) to believe something that is not true, typically in order to gain some personal advantage.

So in reality I'm am not adding to the Text at all, Rather, following the perfect instructions of the Christ and "Including" all the Texts about her. This way I can understand what the true message the Christ is showing me in this example for my edification.

No offence, but I don't see how you can, using God's Word, say she wasn't "convinced" of something that was not true.

I would give you this one, except the scriptures were pretty clear. Eve was deceived, which translates into being convinced into believing something that was not true. Since God speaks the truth, she must have been deceived, or convinced into believing something that is not true from "another voice".

I appreciate your thoughts on this Megenta, but I think it's pretty clear. Eve was definitely convinced of a lie.

Hi Studyman,
Eve was deceived,,,,but did she Know she was deceived?
Apparently she believed the snakes lie.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So how much " believing " does it take to receive salvation ? Where is that line where one is " believing " enough , or just had one doubt to many , and lost their belief ?

Get real , your understanding is as wrong as those who think obedience is what saving Faith is .

Good concept!
Many here believe Doctrine is going to save them instead of Jesus.
They're more legalistic than those they call legalists!

But let me ask you,,,,isn't obedience part of saving faith???

 

[Pisteuo]

Hi Pisteuo, it would be helpful for everyone here if you would please tell us what Christian Church you are associated with, the reason I ask this is because your post sounds like you are insecure in what you believe.

Thank you and God bless!

Lol , you couldn't be more wrong !

My only insecurities are in what you believe . Because there is no such thing as believing .

 

[BillG]

Good concept!
Many here believe Doctrine is going to save them instead of Jesus.
They're more legalistic than those they call legalists!

But let me ask you,,,,isn't obedience part of saving faith???

Maybe you can define legalism from both sides of the equation you mentioned above.
Those who base the doctrine of faith saves are legalists as you say, yet legalists also have a doctrine that saves which is works.

One has to be wrong.
Which one?

Both sides are obedient, but to what?
How does qualify and quantity obedience and works?

 

[BillG]

Lol , you couldn't be more wrong !

My only insecurities are in what you believe . Because there is no such thing as believing .

No such thing as believing?

 

[BillG]

Lol , you couldn't be more wrong !

My only insecurities are in what you believe . Because there is no such thing as believing .

You obviously believe in something because you have no insecurity in what someone else believes in.

 

[Pisteuo]

Good concept!
Many here believe Doctrine is going to save them instead of Jesus.
They're more legalistic than those they call legalists!

But let me ask you,,,,isn't obedience part of saving faith???

The application of saving Faith or pisteuo is a process . It has a beginning , a testing period , and a maintenance period in which we receive the Spirit of Christ . Whenever I refer to pisteuo , the context is always based on the surrendered life .

Once we are " in Christ " and His nature begins to flow . Part of that nature is His obedience flowing through us from time to time . But it only happens because we are continually surrendering our lives to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender . Just as Paul says , " it's not me doing it anymore but sin dwelling in me doing it " . But by the same token ( due to sanctification or separation ) whenrver he does something Holy or of God , it's not him doing that either , but the Spirit of Christ dwelling in him doing it .

The only thing we are really doing is answering the call of the Father by pisteuo , by a personal surrendering of our lives to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender . " Trusting " , that He will accept the surrendered life , that he will direct the surrendered life , that He will sustain the surrendered life , that He will regenerate the surrendered life , that He will keep and hide the surrendered life .

Our only part is to continually , daily , hourly if need be , surrender our life and will to Him . Making all the little daily decisions supporting the fact , our lives are nolonger ours anymore but His .

As we move forward in the process , his presence will result in more Faith and faithing . His Spirit causing us to be givers will result in increased Faith and faithing . Having the mind of Christ will result in increased Faith and faithing . Seeing a reflection of our surrendered life in God's Word through others who went before us will result in increased Faith and faithing .All by simply fulfilling pisteuo correctly .

 

[Pisteuo]

And just to verify , saving Faith and faithing has allways required work . The Greek never separated Faith and work or effort . Only when pisteuo or faithing was mistranslated into the English language was work and Faithing having to be separated .

And it's not work or effort to better or replace the finished work of Christ " Grace " , it takes work and effort to continually surrender our lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender . It's the hardest and easiest thing we will ever do .

 

[Pisteuo]

He's heretical but gets a pass on here. His posts get "likes."

Am I missing something ? I didn't think anyone liked what I'm bearing witness to

 

[preacher4truth]

Am I missing something ? I didn't think anyone liked what I'm bearing witness to

A couple likes but maybe they wised up. Lot of gullible people out there. But people are onto your false "faithing" heresy.

 

[Pisteuo]

A couple likes but maybe they wised up. Lot of gullible people out there. But people are onto your false "faithing" heresy.

Ya that's kind of where I'm at . When someone can take an exact definition of arguably the most important word in the scriptures right out of the Greek dictionarys, and the overwhelming majority call it a false heresy , not being able to accept sound doctrine comes to mind .