Not By Works
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Does a person who teaches obedience to God causes another person to sin by doing so?
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?
Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?
Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4)
Is it obedience to God to break the law?
Who then causes another person to sin?
...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9
...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6
Nothing above has any bearing on the truth of what i posted below....zero, nadda, nothing....!
dcontroversal said:
YEP............Born, Lived and DIED under the LAW.....so...which commandments give life.....LAST time I CHECKED they deem guilt and NO ONE keeps them....NOT even you.........
There is not a JUST man upon the earth that does GOOD and sins NOT......
dcontroversal said:
YEP............Born, Lived and DIED under the LAW.....so...which commandments give life.....LAST time I CHECKED they deem guilt and NO ONE keeps them....NOT even you.........
There is not a JUST man upon the earth that does GOOD and sins NOT......
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Thr truth is that the deceiver has been deceiving from the beginning until now.
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”..
Genesis 3:1-19
How would we know who were the ones that were deceived?
We know that Eve was deceived when she believed the deceiver and disobeyed God's command.
Who are the deceivers and who were deceived?
...At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:10-14, 24
...For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
...And those that were deceived believed in the deceivers mentioned above and disobeyed God's commands because they were made to believe that they would not surely die, IOW, "always saved". But scriptures warn us not to be deceived;
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
Ephesians 5:6-7
...Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”..
Genesis 3:1-19
@VCO
I posted this in another thread concerning 2nd Thessalonians 2......and Paul writes concerning the BODY presence of CHRIST and literally states...THAT IS TO SAY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM....
WHAT do we call the COMING of CHRIST and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM?
He states two things clearly....
a. THE APO-HYSTAMIE APOSTASY
AND
b. THE MAN of SIN must be revealed as God, sitting on the throne as God and worshiped above all that is called GOD
CONCERNING the word TAKEN out of the WAY <---FROM the GREEK it does NOT SAY THIS.....
A good study when the words are evaluated from the Greek
Letteth--> Hold down, retain, seize, possess
Let-->Have or HOLD FAST
TAKEN-->cause to be, come into being, be assembled and or brought forth, to arise, brought to pass
Now read it.....
ONLY HE who now retains or possess will hold fast until he comes into BEING or ARISES
MY view....it is TIME that is restraining......WHO is the power behind the man of sin? SATAN
When the time COMES he will ARISE or COME into being.....the Mystery of iniquity is already at work and has been-->Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome <---they (the leaders) have all been worshiped as gods.....and we know by what JESUS said to the church at Pergamos that ZEUS was SATAN......He has been attempting from day one to be worshiped in a man as GOD, hindered by God because it was not yet TIME......
Just something to ponder.
I posted this in another thread concerning 2nd Thessalonians 2......and Paul writes concerning the BODY presence of CHRIST and literally states...THAT IS TO SAY OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM....
WHAT do we call the COMING of CHRIST and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM?
He states two things clearly....
a. THE APO-HYSTAMIE APOSTASY
AND
b. THE MAN of SIN must be revealed as God, sitting on the throne as God and worshiped above all that is called GOD
CONCERNING the word TAKEN out of the WAY <---FROM the GREEK it does NOT SAY THIS.....
A good study when the words are evaluated from the Greek
Letteth--> Hold down, retain, seize, possess
Let-->Have or HOLD FAST
TAKEN-->cause to be, come into being, be assembled and or brought forth, to arise, brought to pass
Now read it.....
ONLY HE who now retains or possess will hold fast until he comes into BEING or ARISES
MY view....it is TIME that is restraining......WHO is the power behind the man of sin? SATAN
When the time COMES he will ARISE or COME into being.....the Mystery of iniquity is already at work and has been-->Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome <---they (the leaders) have all been worshiped as gods.....and we know by what JESUS said to the church at Pergamos that ZEUS was SATAN......He has been attempting from day one to be worshiped in a man as GOD, hindered by God because it was not yet TIME......
Just something to ponder.
Correct but here are the REST of the Verses in Titus 3 AND the REST of the story...
Titus 3: 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us... 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. We are saved from our PAST sins, justified, made right with God, 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
BELIEF - FAITH - LAW - OBEDIENCE - JUSTIFICATION - GRACE - REPENTANCE
Belief and Obedience AND Faith are Connected
God's Grace
On the day of Pentecost in 31ad, in the first inspired sermon of the New Testament Church,
the Apostle Peter spoke in Jerusalem to several thousand people, after which they became convicted for their part in killing the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Thousands asked Peter and the other Apostles: "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"(Acts 2:37).
A Defense Of God's Spiritual Law
Titus 3: 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us... 7 that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. We are saved from our PAST sins, justified, made right with God, 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.
BELIEF - FAITH - LAW - OBEDIENCE - JUSTIFICATION - GRACE - REPENTANCE
It all fits together! We cannot discuss one without discussing the others and expect to understand.
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”
Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”
Many people sincerely believe that all one has to do is “believe on Jesus” to be saved. Jesus says this to those who believe but do not do the things He says:
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven...’” (Matthew 7:21–23).
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)?
“But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17).“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven...’” (Matthew 7:21–23).
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)?
Many today seek to disconnect belief from obedience, and faith from works BUT the scriptures show the WHOLE picture of HOW they connect.
(James 2:19) James says “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” . “But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?” (v. 20). Then, using the example of Abraham offering up his son Isaac, he says: “Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?” (v. 22).
Paul, in a letter to uncircumcised Gentile Christians said, "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19). Even the Apostle to the Gentiles taught commandment keeping!
If we truly love God, we will begin keeping His commandments, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
The law does not justify us. It teaches us the reason we need justification. It teaches us what sin is (1 John 3:4). Once we have sinned by breaking that law, it is through faith in the sacrifice of Christ that justification—forgiveness of past sins—takes place. The law defines sin. Faith in Christ’s sacrifice brings about justification.
This is summarized in Galatians 2:15–18: “We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Paul also said, “for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified” (by Christ) (Romans 2:13). We are justified to God by Christ having paid the penalty for our past sins, but the Bible teaches that we should become diligent in keeping the commandments and (strive to) sin no more.This is summarized in Galatians 2:15–18: “We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
(James 2:19) James says “You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” . “But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?” (v. 20). Then, using the example of Abraham offering up his son Isaac, he says: “Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?” (v. 22).
And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?” (Hebrews 3:14–18). Then Paul sums up this passage by saying: “So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief” (v. 19). He connects Belief with Obedience
Hebrews 11 is known as the “faith chapter” because it records example after example of men and women who exercised faith in the face of trials and stress. “Butwithout faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (v. 6).
Paul never contradicted Jesus by teaching commandment breaking.Paul, in a letter to uncircumcised Gentile Christians said, "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Corinthians 7:19). Even the Apostle to the Gentiles taught commandment keeping!
If we truly love God, we will begin keeping His commandments, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3).
Grace is a “gift from God.” But, is this grace a permanent state, such that “once saved, always saved”?
An often-misunderstood verse in Scripture. Ephesians 2:8 tells us, “For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (KJV). The phrase “are ye saved” uses a present-progressive verb. A “present-progressive” verb describes an ongoing action. Any good Bible concordance will verify that the KJV correctly renders the tense of the original Greek verb. The most precise translation of Ephesians 2:8,we “are being” saved through faith.
An often-misunderstood verse in Scripture. Ephesians 2:8 tells us, “For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (KJV). The phrase “are ye saved” uses a present-progressive verb. A “present-progressive” verb describes an ongoing action. Any good Bible concordance will verify that the KJV correctly renders the tense of the original Greek verb. The most precise translation of Ephesians 2:8,we “are being” saved through faith.
To sum up, Christians have been saved from our past sins by the blood of Christ (justification); we are now “being saved” through faith (Matthew 24:13), and we “shall be saved by His life” (Romans 5:10).
Repentance
Many preach and teach - "Just believe, and you will be saved!" BUT God tells us to repent of sin and be baptized - is THAT "salvation by works"?
What is repentance? The Greek word translated "repent" is metanoeo, which means to "think differently." One must repent of—think differently about—one's sin. But what is sin? "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." (1 John 3:4). The King James Version puts it plainly—"sin is the transgression of the law."
When we repent of sin, we are deeply sorry for having transgressed God's law. We no longer have a hostile attitude toward God and His law of liberty. We no longer have a carnal attitude that is enmity against the law of God (Romans 8:7). After repentance, we want to be in harmony with God's law of love—the Ten Commandments. Repentance brings a deep change in our thinking, and a commitment to live by every word of God. As Jesus said: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God" (Luke 4:4).
Repentance
Many preach and teach - "Just believe, and you will be saved!" BUT God tells us to repent of sin and be baptized - is THAT "salvation by works"?
What is repentance? The Greek word translated "repent" is metanoeo, which means to "think differently." One must repent of—think differently about—one's sin. But what is sin? "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." (1 John 3:4). The King James Version puts it plainly—"sin is the transgression of the law."
When we repent of sin, we are deeply sorry for having transgressed God's law. We no longer have a hostile attitude toward God and His law of liberty. We no longer have a carnal attitude that is enmity against the law of God (Romans 8:7). After repentance, we want to be in harmony with God's law of love—the Ten Commandments. Repentance brings a deep change in our thinking, and a commitment to live by every word of God. As Jesus said: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God" (Luke 4:4).
the Apostle Peter spoke in Jerusalem to several thousand people, after which they became convicted for their part in killing the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Thousands asked Peter and the other Apostles: "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"(Acts 2:37).
Here was Peter's opportunity to tell them that they did not need to do anything more than "believe." Did he tell them so? No! What did he actually say? "Then Peter said to them, 'Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit'" (Acts 2:38). Peter proclaimed wonderful news—that they could be forgiven of their sins, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For this to occur, he insisted on two points—that they repent (of breaking God's Spiritual Law - The 10 Commandments), and that they be baptized.
"Christians Are Required to Keep God's Law!"
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"Did Paul Do Away With the Law?"
BILLIONS WEREN’T EXPECTING THIS AFTER DEATH
What happens to faithful, repentant Christians? What happens to those who lived bad lives during this life? What happens to those who Don't keep God's law?
BILLIONS WEREN’T EXPECTING THIS AFTER DEATH
What happens to faithful, repentant Christians? What happens to those who lived bad lives during this life? What happens to those who Don't keep God's law?
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@COGmember
Works do not save, keep saved, top off salvation which is a one off event with present, continuing eternal results........and your last statement is ignorant....The words of PAUL are the words of JESUS.....just another religionist Cainologist peddling your religion......NO THANKS!
Works do not save, keep saved, top off salvation which is a one off event with present, continuing eternal results........and your last statement is ignorant....The words of PAUL are the words of JESUS.....just another religionist Cainologist peddling your religion......NO THANKS!
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wow , they are coming out of the woodwork arent they .... yikes !!!
Jesus saved Paul on the Damascus road , and Commissioned him to be the Apostle to the Gentiles , for the Body of Christ ( us ) in this , the age of Grace !!
So like decon said , Paul's words are Jesus's words !!!
They were given to Paul by revelation
Paul says follow him , as he follows Christ ( 1 corinthians 11:1 )
Seriously people , read , and understand the difference between old and new covenant teachings, and learn about " the dispensation of Grace " ( ephesians 3:2 )
Why do so many try to discredit Paul and go against what he says ? Christ himself gave him what he said , geeesh
Jesus saved Paul on the Damascus road , and Commissioned him to be the Apostle to the Gentiles , for the Body of Christ ( us ) in this , the age of Grace !!
So like decon said , Paul's words are Jesus's words !!!
They were given to Paul by revelation
Paul says follow him , as he follows Christ ( 1 corinthians 11:1 )
Seriously people , read , and understand the difference between old and new covenant teachings, and learn about " the dispensation of Grace " ( ephesians 3:2 )
Why do so many try to discredit Paul and go against what he says ? Christ himself gave him what he said , geeesh
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