Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Hello, I joined the conversation late and would like to see this Creed that you guys are talking about. Where can I find it? Can someone post it to me if its short? If its the Apostles' creed I agree with it yes.

I also must say that its a sad state in christianity when there are 3554 pages (which I dont got time to read) of debate about something the Bible clearly states in many places:

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
2 Timothy 1:9 He is the one who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works but on his own purpose and grace, granted to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Romans 3:20 For no one is declared righteous before him by the works of the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:28 For we consider that a person is declared righteous by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Titus 3:5 he saved us not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Etc! Yet the debate is ongoing?

Make no mistake.....there is no debate....it is a stance against those who would corrupt the correct message of salvation and eternal consequences are at stake.....as long as 1 "one" worker for, Cainologist, Pharisee continues to push a working for, law keeping salvation that can be lost, gained, kept by works I will post till the cows come home, the chickens roost, the stars fall from the sky and hell freezes over......!!!!!!!! Their dogma = no power to save and leads to a liquid deprived place with higher than normal temps!!

 

[Lovingothers]

Hi Lovingothers, the gift of Eternal Salvation is free to you and I; however God gave us his only beggoten Son to die for us.. Jesus paid the ultimate price to save us from our sins. Jesus said because He lives we shall live also.

Why do you cringe when Jesus said, "greater love hath no man than he lay down his life for another."

Romans6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I cringe at the word “free” because it trivializes the greatest gift ever given and Romans 6:23 says: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Kjv
Which does not even include the word “free.”

Hi Lovingothers, the gift of Eternal Salvation is free to you and I; however God gave us his only beggoten Son to die for us.. Jesus paid the ultimate price to save us from our sins. Jesus said because He lives we shall live also.

Why do you cringe when Jesus said, "greater love hath no man than he lay down his life for another."

Romans6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I would sure appreciate you answering my questions when you get a few extra minutes. Thanks.

Also, I cringe at the word “free” because it trivializes the greatest gift ever given and Romans 6:23 says: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Kjv
Which does not even include the word “free.”

 

[Lovingothers]

Lol..keep trying...not hating..passionately debating..lol

Haha...no hate here, just trying to sincerely understand. It is hard to express that when writing right?

 

[dcontroversal]

What is hell?
Who goes there?

Is it Hades, Gahenna or Tartaroo?

One it is misleading, two Christ went to Abraham's bosom or paradise at the heart of the earth......he did not descend into hell like the Catholic/Creed would have us believe....!

 

[dcontroversal]

I cringe at the word “free” because it trivializes the greatest gift ever given and Romans 6:23 says: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Kjv
Which does not even include the word “free.”


I would sure appreciate you answering my questions when you get a few extra minutes. Thanks.

Also, I cringe at the word “free” because it trivializes the greatest gift ever given and Romans 6:23 says: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Kjv
Which does not even include the word “free.”

No, but it implies free on our part...geesh...let's split hairs......a gift IS FREE and the gifts of God are IRREVOCABLE.....!!!!!!

 

[theanointedsinner]

contrary to common misinterpretation, free does not mean abusable

neither can works merit anything, we'd have better luck trying to create the universe than to work our way toward salvation

meaning that it's impossible for humans to work their way for salvation

 

[theanointedsinner]

to illustrate, think of free grace like it's sunglasses on a sunny day, the sunglass is to protect our eyes from the sun, but we don't abuse the sunglass to stare directly at the sun, there's a difference

or an umbrella on a rainy day, we use it to minimize being rained on, but we don't purposely get a bucket of water and pour it over our umbrella, ... I hope that clarifies

 

[dcontroversal]

contrary to common misinterpretation, free does not mean abusable

neither can works merit anything, we'd have better luck trying to create the universe than to work our way toward salvation

meaning that it's impossible for humans to work their way for salvation

Your contrary statement has no bearing on the free gift of grace, faith, life in Christ.....no one I know believes or pushes what you cite as a common thing.....nor does your sunglasses comparison make sense......God's grace is preemptive and Christ EVER INTERCEDES FOR HIS CHILDREN........and last time I checked....IT IS FINISHED = PAID IN FULL.....my sins were dealt with at the cross! <--Every one of them!

 

[theanointedsinner]

Your contrary statement has no bearing on the free gift of grace, faith, life in Christ.....no one I know believes or pushes what you cite as a common thing.....nor does your sunglasses comparison make sense......God's grace is preemptive and Christ EVER INTERCEDES FOR HIS CHILDREN........and last time I checked....IT IS FINISHED = PAID IN FULL.....my sins were dealt with at the cross! <--Every one of them!

no one I know believes or pushes what you cite as a common thing <-- then I clearly misunderstand what people usually pushes the most

please clarify

 

[Lovingothers]

One becomes sanctified and set apart through God's grace. God transforming our minds and hearts and working in us. Growing in grace means that you grow in knowledge of the Word, grow in Christ. I will provide a couple of verses below for both of my points:

Philippians 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Grace teaches us to deny ungodliness. This is why grace is of utmost importance, you remove grace and you end up working FOR your salvation instead of working OUT your salvation (Philippians 2:12-13)


You should not be uncomfortable with the word free gift, it is a biblical phrase.

I really really like what you said about grace being about working out your salvation not for your salvation. I get discouraged some times that I am not more pure. I think what you said is really profound. Working out makes me think of exercise. When we exercise regularly, our bodies change and become stronger and more efficient. Verses: being a hired hand and working FOR a master.

I know it the term is in the Bible, but I think the reason I don’t like the phrase that much is because of our culture of entitlements and freebies. Our God is infinitely wiser than our government who gives out free things for worldly motives. I want my children to know it is not the same. God wants to change us to be better, happier, more independent people: not temporarily satisfy and pacify us.

So another question: How does baptism play into your beliefs?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

I cringe at the word “free” because it trivializes the greatest gift ever given and Romans 6:23 says: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Kjv
Which does not even include the word “free.”


I would sure appreciate you answering my questions when you get a few extra minutes. Thanks.

Also, I cringe at the word “free” because it trivializes the greatest gift ever given and Romans 6:23 says: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Kjv
Which does not even include the word “free.”

romans 3 : 24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Romans 5:15
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

it..... is a free gift as in unmerited


those He never knew from the verses in matthew you posted, never recieved this gift

otherwise they would not have tried to justify themself with "their many wonderful works"

 

[theanointedsinner]

to receive God's love, we must love God first

to love God, we need to receive God's love

so, which comes first?

 

[dcontroversal]

no one I know believes or pushes what you cite as a common thing <-- then I clearly misunderstand what people usually pushes the most

please clarify

You said....A common misinterpretation is that free does not mean abusable....the context is the grace of God.....NO ONE I KNOW that believes is saved by grace through faith with salvation, grace and faith being free gifts from God believes that wr can live anyeay we choose and abuse said grace.....

I would like to see one quote from anyone that state any of the following...

a. We can live like the devil becaude we are eternally saved by grace through faith

b. We can sin all we want anf it does not matter becsuse God's grace covers it eternally

c. We can abuse the grace if God because where sin abounds, grace abounds the more.

etc.....NO ONE I know makes that leap and or peddles that...so, how can it be a common misinterpretation?

It is not a common thing or am I misunderstanding your point?

 

[dcontroversal]

to receive God's love, we must love God first

to love God, we need to receive God's love

so, which comes first?

1ST IS False....it is NOT THAT WE LOVED HIM, BUT THAT HE LOVRD US AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR US

2nd True, but lest we forget....Loving God is a process of Growth and maturity AFTER one has been saved and born from above....the bible makes this clear....

 

[dcontroversal]

romans 3 : 24
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Romans 5:15
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

it..... is a free gift as in unmerited


those He never knew from the verses in matthew you posted, never recieved this gift

otherwise they would not have tried to justify themself with "their many wonderful works"

Amen brother...it utterly amazes me that "believers" have such a hard time simply belieiving the word of God and accepting the inspired words that God uses.....

 

[theanointedsinner]

You said....A common misinterpretation is that free does not mean abusable....the context is the grace of God.....NO ONE I KNOW that believes is saved by grace through faith with salvation, grace and faith being free gifts from God believes that wr can live anyeay we choose and abuse said grace.....

I would like to see one quote from anyone that state any of the following...

a. We can live like the devil becaude we are eternally saved by grace through faith

b. We can sin all we want anf it does not matter becsuse God's grace covers it eternally

c. We can abuse the grace if God because where sin abounds, grace abounds the more.

etc.....NO ONE I know makes that leap and or peddles that...so, how can it be a common misinterpretation?

It is not a common thing or am I misunderstanding your point?

It is not a common thing or am I misunderstanding your point? <-- you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say, maybe I need to practice my communication skill better, but it's far too common to see how work-salvationist accuse the saved of abusing grace, which seems like a commonly believed accusations among the work-salvationist

 

[calibob]

to illustrate, think of free grace like it's sunglasses on a sunny day, the sunglass is to protect our eyes from the sun, but we don't abuse the sunglass to stare directly at the sun, there's a difference

or an umbrella on a rainy day, we use it to minimize being rained on, but we don't purposely get a bucket of water and pour it over our umbrella, ... I hope that clarifies

I guess you've never been to Seattle where people DO wear sunglasses on rainy days to protect them from the suns glare off of the wet ground

 

[theanointedsinner]

I guess you've never been to Seattle where people DO wear sunglasses on rainy days to protect them from the suns glare off of the wet ground

learning something new every day

and it does make sense, the reflection can be as bright as sunlight, it's boils down to people applying science

 

[calibob]

It is not a common thing or am I misunderstanding your point? <-- you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say, maybe I need to practice my communication skill better, but it's far too common to see how work-salvationist accuse the saved of abusing grace, which seems like a commonly believed accusations among the work-salvationist

Bzzzzz, wrong answer. Salvationists are members of the Salvation Army branch of the Methodist church. Hardcore! No Alcohol, Tobacco Gambling, Drugs, Rock n Roll, Skimpy clothing, Sexual impropriety. Pastors must be married, no divorce. Must be willing to militantly oppose and the ways of sin. March in protests & be stoned, sing out loud in public. They used to drag alcoholics out of bars and coax prostitutes off of streets and out of brothels. . Rehabilitate them teach them about salvation by grace first, faith next and last but not least works but OSAS always.​

 

[Jewel5712]

to receive God's love, we must love God first

to love God, we need to receive God's love

so, which comes first?

The chicken or the egg?