Not By Works

[benhur]

your vision is so clouded...


from thinking born of flesh = water baptism

to not understanding


John 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Acts 13:39
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.



3340. metanoeó ►

Strong's Concordance​

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.



Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning







we arent born again by works

we dont believe by works

and repentance isnt works


genuine belief comes from hearing the truth

then we repent from unbelief BY believing

this isnt a choice

if someone hears and genuinely believes

this is an internal response to hearing the truth

you can keep taking credit for your "faith"

you can keep taking credit for "being born of flesh"

or even being born of the spirit



but ben
you would be fighting a losing battle
because it isnt founded in truth​

This is what I said:

So here are the good works that you must do according to Romans 9-10
1) believe in thine heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead.
2) confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus.
3) call upon the name of Jesus.

Your response:
your vision is so clouded...
from thinking born of flesh = water baptism
to not understanding

The words I said came straight out of the bible, and if you and I cannot agree on these simple words, then we will never agree on anything. And it does not appear that I have the problem. I suspect that if I changed my words to, 'So here are the things that you must do to be saved according to Romans 9-10. There, is that better, I eliminated the words, 'good works')

 

[justpassinthrough]

This is what I said:

So here are the good works that you must do according to Romans 9-10
1) believe in thine heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead.
2) confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus.
3) call upon the name of Jesus.

Your response:
your vision is so clouded...
from thinking born of flesh = water baptism
to not understanding

The words I said came straight out of the bible, and if you and I cannot agree on these simple words, then we will never agree on anything. And it does not appear that I have the problem. I suspect that if I changed my words to, 'So here are the things that you must do to be saved according to Romans 9-10. There, is that better, I eliminated the words, 'good works')

Great post brother.


Keep given us the truth.

For some it will get through.



JPT

 

[TruthTalk]

This thread is so uplifting...
(and that's just from the last two pages.)

Ps 133:
1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Excuse me for jumping into the conversation, but a teacher of a counterfeit doctrine is far from being my brother. He needs to repent and believe the Gospel.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

This thread is so uplifting...












Ps 133:
1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

i have not been trying to uplift a brother


im rebuking a false teacher who believes in a gospel that denies biblical truths as well as makes constant attacks on the children of God through lies and craftiness

that doesnt deserve encouragement


21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

22 Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the Lord; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men.

23 Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under:

24 And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the Lord: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.

25 And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under.

26 And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.

27 And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked.

28 And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them.


________
Galatians 1:8-9
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
_______


Matthew
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

 

[shrume]

Excuse me for jumping into the conversation, but a teacher of a counterfeit doctrine is far from being my brother. He needs to repent and believe the Gospel.

There are ways to discuss differences in doctrine without calling each other "liar", "Pharisee", "hater of the Bible", etc.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

This is what I said:

So here are the good works that you must do according to Romans 9-10
1) believe in thine heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead.
2) confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus.
3) call upon the name of Jesus.

Your response:
your vision is so clouded...
from thinking born of flesh = water baptism
to not understanding

The words I said came straight out of the bible, and if you and I cannot agree on these simple words, then we will never agree on anything. And it does not appear that I have the problem. I suspect that if I changed my words to, 'So here are the things that you must do to be saved according to Romans 9-10. There, is that better, I eliminated the words, 'good works')

i can see what you imply

and im pointing to your errors

anyone can copy and paste verses

but you believe them to mean things they do not mean....


i have had maybe 35-50 back and forths with you

so if i see you post a verse

i know youre trying to impute false meaning to it (wether this is intentional or not i do not know)

 

[TruthTalk]

There are ways to discuss differences in doctrine without calling each other "liar", "Pharisee", "hater of the Bible", etc.

Very true and thanks for being a voice of reason, I will remember and put your ideas into practice.

Thank you and God bless.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

your vision is so clouded...


from thinking born of flesh = water baptism

to not understanding


John 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Acts 13:39
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.



3340. metanoeó ►

Strong's Concordance​

metanoeó: to change one's mind or purpose

Original Word: μετανοέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: metanoeó
Phonetic Spelling: (met-an-o-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I repent, change my mind
Definition: I repent, change my mind, change the inner man (particularly with reference to acceptance of the will of God), repent.



Ezekiel 36:26
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning







we arent born again by works

we dont believe by works

and repentance isnt works


genuine belief comes from hearing the truth

then we repent from unbelief BY believing

this isnt a choice

if someone hears and genuinely believes

this is an internal response to hearing the truth

you can keep taking credit for your "faith"

you can keep taking credit for "being born of flesh"

or even being born of the spirit



but ben
you would be fighting a losing battle
because it isnt founded in truth​

this is all i said when you dont ignore the context

im clearly refuting your belief that repenting from unbelief is a work


also

by your understanding

is it impossible for someone who can not speak with their mouth or sign language to be saved?


sounds like it to me

 

[NoNameMcgee]

There are ways to discuss differences in doctrine without calling each other "liar", "Pharisee", "hater of the Bible", etc.

i agree full heartedly

i call him a liar because his lies about my brothers and sisters in Christ


not only because his false gospel <- works salvation

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This thread is so uplifting...











(and that's just from the last two pages.)

Ps 133:
1) Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Sadly, people slander and lies do need called out, if people would calk them out instead of sweeping them under the carpet, they would not be able to spread them, which is why there is never any communicatin with some people.

And as another posted, some here are not our bretheryn.

 

[justpassinthrough]

i can see what you imply

and im pointing to your errors

anyone can copy and paste verses

but you believe them to mean things they do not mean....


i have had maybe 35-50 back and forths with you

so if i see you post a verse

i know youre trying to impute false meaning to it (wether this is intentional or not i do not know)

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

JPT

 

[shrume]

Sadly, people slander and lies do need called out, if people would calk them out instead of sweeping them under the carpet, they would not be able to spread them, which is why there is never any communicatin with some people.

And as another posted, some here are not our bretheryn.

Are you openly declaring some here to not be Christian?

Based on what?

Do you believe that if someone trusts in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, but thinks he needs to maintain his salvation by doing good works, that he is not a Christian?

For what it's worth, I generally agree with you, that salvation is permanent. It cannot be lost. No works are required to maintain one's salvation.

But I'm not about to declare someone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ but thinks that salvation can be lost, or who things they must do good works to maintain salvation, to not be a Christian.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,



God who “will render to each one according to his deeds”

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality

JPT

John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Are you openly declaring some here to not be Christian?

Based on what?

Do you believe that if someone trusts in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation, but thinks he needs to maintain his salvation by doing good works, that he is not a Christian?

For what it's worth, I generally agree with you, that salvation is permanent. It cannot be lost. No works are required to maintain one's salvation.

But I'm not about to declare someone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ but thinks that salvation can be lost, or who things they must do good works to maintain salvation, to not be a Christian.

romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.




i too wont outright declare who is and isnt saved

i dont know everyones heart


but i will not also claim to know if someone is saved or call them my brother when they push a false gospel all while lying and falsely accusing sons and daughters of God

 

[shrume]

romans 9

30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The majority of the Israelites did not (and still do not) believe on Jesus Christ. If a person hears of Jesus Christ but decides to reject him as the Messiah, then you can safely surmise that person is not saved.

i too wont outright declare who is and isnt saved

i dont know everyones heart

but i will not also claim to know if someone is saved or call them my brother when they push a false gospel all while lying and falsely accusing sons and daughters of God

Pot ... kettle?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

The majority of the Israelites did not (and still do not) believe on Jesus Christ. If a person hears of Jesus Christ but decides to reject him as the Messiah, then you can safely surmise that person is not saved.


Pot ... kettle?

i dont believe so

jpt may indeed be a brother in error

i wouldnt deny it is possible

but i have only seen him lie,
falsely accuse brothers and sisters
push a gospel that does not align with the bible

while rejecting any reproof sent his way


i believe to assume all JWs are saved
or mormons is not a correct way to go about things... these people will also profess Jesus to be their savior right before pushing many un-truths


i wouldnt say everyone under these branches are damned just for attaching a false denomination or having been taught false doctrine


the same way i wouldnt say "oh if you claim youre catholic there is NO WAY you have yet been born again"


.... do you believe i am wrong for my stance?

im open to reproof

 

[justpassinthrough]

John 6:47 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

Amen.


Believe = Obey.


Which is why Jesus told us who would come forth at the resurrection of life.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29



JPT

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Believe = Obey.

◄ 4100. pisteuó ►

Strong's Concordance

pisteuó: to believe, entrust​

Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Short Definition: I believe, have faith in
Definition: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.​

 

[TruthTalk]

So here are the good works that you must do according to Romans 9-10
1) believe in thine heart that God hath raised Jesus from the dead.
2) confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus.
3) call upon the name of Jesus.

If a man does this, he will be saved. Would you agree?

Now as far as Acts 26, this is not a lecture from Paul on grace through faith and not of works, in fact the only preaching he does is in verse 20 which he says when he came from the vision he was telling everyone to repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Did you read in Acts 26 something about not of works? I read do works meet for repentance. Which one of us is right, and preached the truth?

We are saved; By faith alone, in Christ alone

It is by "Faith Alone" we are saved. God appoints everyone a measure of faith to believe, it is from God that we believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.

Confession is proof of what has happened to the heart of the believer, which is, "Salvation." Confession is a work of the mouth that comes after you are saved.

Philippians 3:9:
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.

Quote:
Paul makes absolutely no mention of “confessing Jesus as Lord” in order to receive justification. In these early chapters, the apostle has repeatedly stressed the need for faith alone, just as the Reformers had discovered. It seems rather strange that in chapter 10 Paul would add to justification by faith the need for “confession” —a concept he completely excluded in the early chapters of his epistle. In fact, Paul never mentions confession as a requirement for justification in any of his other epistles.

 

[justpassinthrough]

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ Matthew 25:34-36


Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

for I was hungry and you gave Me food;
I was thirsty and you gave Me drink;
I was a stranger and you took Me in;
I was naked and you clothed Me;
I was sick and you visited Me;
I was in prison and you came to Me.’


Can anyone honestly answer why these inherited the kingdom of God?



JPT