Not By Works

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benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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That's a bit harsh.

We are all under grace. You, me and TT

That we all must remember.


TT does not hate his brother and neither do you, neither do I or anyone else on this thread.
But the words of Jesus still matter, and they do not think so because Jesus was born and lived and died under the law.
Therefore his words mean less than Paul, who they think taught only the NT theology of grace, and that is what we live under today.

TT does not hate me yet, but I hope he does not go further in his dislike. So BillG, since you are not ignoring me, I will apologize to TT through you, and ask his forgiveness, so he does not approach a bad place. And thank you for jerking me back to a good place too.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

*So James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body emits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10).

So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?

I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, including Roman Catholics, Mormons and misguided teachers of the law. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin and loving one another as He commanded us (1 John 3:9-10, 23; 4:21 ). In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works (Matthew 7:22-23). In either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,020
4,439
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But the words of Jesus still matter, and they do not think so because Jesus was born and lived and died under the law.
Therefore his words mean less than Paul, who they think taught only the NT theology of grace, and that is what we live under today.

TT does not hate me yet, but I hope he does not go further in his dislike. So BillG, since you are not ignoring me, I will apologize to TT through you, and ask his forgiveness, so he does not approach a bad place. And thank you for jerking me back to a good place too.
I don't even think TT dislikes you.
But I do get where you are coming from, as words written don't often convey the intent.

To be honest I think if you asked TT for forgiveness he would say "nothing to forgive or already forgiven"

Lateral forgiveness.

I have never put anyone on ignore and can't see myself doing so.

The words of Jesus do matter and I think everyone on here believes they do as well.

Jesus preaching and Pauls can be reconciled.

Even Peter who walked with Jesus found what Paul said difficult and hard to understand.

Maybe ask for forgiveness yourself so that you don't reach a bad place.

After all what does unforgivness do and who does it ensare?

God bless you mate.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Yes for the self-righteous it does. Frankly I am putting you on ignore because personally I do not like you and your constant sarcasm is boring, good bye and have a nice forever.
1 John 2:9-11 Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble. But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness; he does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded him.

1 John 1:5-10 Walking in the Light This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

1 timothy 6:3-5 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

John 8:42-47 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

1 Corinthians 5:9-13 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”

1 Corinthians 14:36-38 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

John 7:18 He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

Romans 3:3-4 What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
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I don't even think TT dislikes you.
But I do get where you are coming from, as words written don't often convey the intent.

To be honest I think if you asked TT for forgiveness he would say "nothing to forgive or already forgiven", (Amen!)

Lateral forgiveness.
Hi BillG, you are correct in what you say and thank you for being a peace maker, God bless you!
 
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It stuns me, some standing before Jesus saying "look what I did for you" rather than
"look what you did for me"




Hi Katy-follower, very good points you make, this needs repeating to the plentiful works group.

Righteousness Through Faith: Romans3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
Yep and everyone that pushes works as part of the equation to gain or keep salvation will make the "many" grouping at the last day...Lord, Lord, have WE NOT DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME........

They fully expect their works to PROVE their right to enter.....look how they argue works on here with scripture out of context while denying a plethora of verses that clearly state it is by faith alone and eternally given at the moment of belief!
 
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HERE IS JESUS USING THE CORRECT WORD:


Matthew 19:18 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


You do know that GOD used the word that can be translated both Murder and Kill, don't you?


Romans 13:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.



The Word of GOD is correctly rendered MURDER. Police, Miltary, and justifiable homicide such as self defense DO NOT MURDER.



Luke 22:36 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.


THERE Jesus Himself authorized SELF DEFENSE WEAPONS, mine is a pistol.


You also did KNOW that the KJV is not a Translation, but rather an UPDATE of the language, and to correct some KNOWN ERRORS from Earlier English Translations. Here is an excerpt from the Original 1611 KJV Preface:



[/COLOR]

That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages.

They used all of the older English Translations, and compared it to the LATIN Bible. Here is the Link to the 1611 Original KJV Preface: Preface to the King James Version 1611, Part 10 of 10

The quote "wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation," comes near the top of page 10.

Not if he consulted the CREED.........
 
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You seem to be willing to divide the bible in a before and after scenerio. How exactly do you do that. When exactly in the scriptures was the law fulfulled, and when in the scriptures did grace take over?

Is it true that some words of Jesus are spoken before the law was fulfilled, and so they are not under grace, therefore they do not reflect the true Christian (grace) doctrine?
I divide nothing....both O.T. and N.T saints are saved by faith through grace.....Romans covers this with Abraham and David both describing a man having righteousness imputed by faith....wake up to the truth...the only purpose of the law was to condemn men as guilty and point to the eternal cure all...Jesus <-faith=redeemed, justified, eternally saved, sealed and positionally sanctified in Christ forever!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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False Prophet and teachers of False Doctrines, are famous for telling you something that you agree with, and then leading you into their strange believe. What some people do not know, is their definition of most of their Christian terms are VASTLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU BELIEVE. So do not be afraid to ask him to definite his terms.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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Well thought out words, thank you.

It seems like between different teachers and pastors, the HG has a hard task to give us the truth of this passage in John. Christendom is divided about how to interpret this passage. What has the HG taught you about what it means to be 'born of the water'?
I believe the overarching focus on the NT Scripture is about being in Christ. There are over 50 forms of “in Christ” Scriptures. When I was younger I would read those over and over, but hear very little teaching about what in Christ was. I realized that it wasn’t connecting to my heart because I didn’t have a picture for it. So I prayed for Holy Spirit to teach me. And He showed me that a person is in Adam or they are in Christ. Being in Christ is the doorway to peace with God. And in Him we live, move, and have our being. This is why Paul was able to say he was crucified to the world, dead to sin, and knew no one by the flesh. The water baptism is our picture of this, first remember that John was baptizing with water before Jesus came. John was preparing the way of the Lord. Water baptism is a sign of dying and being reborn IN Christ. It is a public witness of an inner work. When the Spirit first fell upon the Gentiles, Paul had them next be baptized in water, to me this shows it is not required for salvation, but its our honor to follow Him in this. However, this is not a one time event, but the invitation of a life style, a continual renewing (this is a baptism word) of the mind. It is continually dying to ways that were formed in us apart from Christ and growing in Christ and uniting with His mind, Holy Spirit. As His Body on Earth, we are called to be one, jointly lead by one Lord. He is our Head. :)
 
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Have the workers for, law keepers and sinless perfectionists done enough to gain or keep salvation today.....Nope....never have and never will....

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy has he saved us.
 

Katy-follower

Senior Member
Jun 25, 2011
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It stuns me, some standing before Jesus saying "look what I did for you" rather than
"look what you did for me"




Hi Katy-follower, very good points you make, this needs repeating to the plentiful works group.

Righteousness Through Faith: Romans3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
Just incase my post was misunderstood by anyone. The literal interpretation of that judgment day scripture is that many will be pleading with Jesus "Lord, Lord" and they will speak of the works they've done, as if evidence they are His.... "have we not prophesied in your name..... done many great things in your name" etc, so pleading their case. The fact they call Him Lord shows they are from the "christian" world. But He will call them workers of iniquity, and that He never knew them. They were never His.

As for the "look what I did for you" versus "look what you did for me" - this is not a quote from scripture but rather this was on my mind, because it really is the mentality of the two groups. There are us who look to Jesus and His work alone, versus those who look to self. Too many people are trying to get to God on their own terms (religion). Their thinking is "if I do this then God will be pleased with me" but it's what God has done for us, not what man can do for God!!

This is the same attitude of those people on judgment day... they never looked to Jesus alone to save them.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Yep and everyone that pushes works as part of the equation to gain or keep salvation will make the "many" grouping at the last day...Lord, Lord, have WE NOT DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS IN YOUR NAME........

They fully expect their works to PROVE their right to enter.....look how they argue works on here with scripture out of context while denying a plethora of verses that clearly state it is by faith alone and eternally given at the moment of belief!


IT’S DISAPPOINTING TO LEARN THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE CLAIMING TO BE CHRISTIANS CLING OR TRUST MAN MADE DOCTRINES MORE THAN THE TRUTH IN THE SCRIPTURES.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

THESE SELF-PROCLAIMED CHRISTIANS WOULD REJECT GOD’S WORDS, LAWS AND COMMANDS TO DEFEND WHAT WAS TAUGHT TO THEM BY THEIR CHURCH LEADERS.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you HYPOCRITES; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; THEIR TEACHINGS ARE BUT RULES TAUGHT BY MEN.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who CURSES his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. Thus YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. And YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT”

TO THEIR SHAME, THESE PEOPLE CLAIM TO KNOW GOD BUT BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM.( titus 1:16)

THEY CLAIM TO BE ETERNALLY SAVED ALTHOUGH THEY ARE DEAD IN THE EYES OF GOD (rev 3:1-6)

THEY NOT ONLY APPROVE OF THOSE WHO MOCK GOD AND TRAMPLED THE SON OF GOD UNDER FOOT.(psalms 49:13-15)

Hebrews 10:28-29 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?

BUT THEY EVEN PRAISE THE ONE WHO CALLS JESUS “CURSED" WHILE MOCKING AND INSULTING THOSE WHO PROMOTE OBEDIENCE TO GOD AND HIS WORD THROUGH THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION.

Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for THEY HAVE REJECTED THE LAW OF THE LORD ALMIGHTY AND SPURNED THE WORD OF THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL..

“WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL JESUS “CURSED” AND TEACHES DISOBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WORDS AND COMMANDS.”

2 John 1:5-11 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. ANY SUCH PERSON IS THE DECEIVER AND THE ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

“GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED"

“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.”
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
1,099
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God's command to Abraham was to go and sacrifice Isaac on the alter,and without question, he did just that, his only son at that time. His faith in God was his good works that he obeyed God. Good works is obeying God and living by every word that proceeds out of his mouth.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
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Just incase my post was misunderstood by anyone. The literal interpretation of that judgment day scripture is that many will be pleading with Jesus "Lord, Lord" and they will speak of the works they've done, as if evidence they are His.... "have we not prophesied in your name..... done many great things in your name" etc, so pleading their case. The fact they call Him Lord shows they are from the "christian" world. But He will call them workers of iniquity, and that He never knew them. They were never His.

As for the "look what I did for you" versus "look what you did for me" - this is not a quote from scripture but rather this was on my mind, because it really is the mentality of the two groups. There are us who look to Jesus and His work alone, versus those who look to self. Too many people are trying to get to God on their own terms (religion). Their thinking is "if I do this then God will be pleased with me" but it's what God has done for us, not what man can do for God!!

This is the same attitude of those people on judgment day... they never looked to Jesus alone to save them.
1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him IF WE OBEY HIS COMMANDS. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, GOD'S LOVE is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:15 “IF YOU LOVE ME, you will obey what I command.

2 John 1:6-11 And THIS IS LOVE: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. MANY DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that YOU DO NOT LOSE WHAT YOU HAVE WORKED FOR, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
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Hebrews 9:27-28 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but TO BRING SALVATION to those who are WAITING for him.

Romans 8:24-25 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But IF WE HOPE FOR WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE YET we wait for it patiently.

2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For WHAT IS SEEN IS TEMPORARY, but WHAT IS UNSEEN IS ETERNAL.

THERE ARE SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO CLAIM TO HAVE ALREADY POSSESSED ETERNAL SALVATION. DO THEY NO LONGER WAIT FOR THE LORD TO BRING THEM SALVATION SINCE THEY ALREADY POSSESS IT? ARE THEY NOT GOING TO FACE JUDGMENT ANYMORE?

Philippians 3:12-16 NOT that I have already OBTAINED all this, or have ALREADY BEEN MADE PERFECT, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward THE GOAL to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus. All of us who are MATURE should take such a view of things. And if on some point YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, that too God will make clear to you. Only let us live up to what we have ALREADY ATTAINED.

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving THE GOAL OF YOUR FAITH, the SALVATION of your souls.


SALVATION IS THE GOAL OF THOSE WHO ARE WAITING FOR HIM, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST OF WHICH HE IS THE SAVIOR.

OSAS IS A FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE THAT NULLIFIES THE WORD OF GOD.

Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “YOU HAVE A FINE WAY OF SETTING ASIDE THE COMMANDS OF GOD in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then YOU NO LONGER LET HIM DO ANYTHING for his father or mother. THUS YOU NULLIFY THE WORD OF GOD by your tradition that you have handed down. AND YOU DO MANY THINGS LIKE THAT.”


JESUS SAID;

“If you love me, you will obey what I command.” john 14:15


…” If you want to enter life, obey the commandments.”matthew 19:17


“ Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.” Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?” Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.” john 14:21-24


THIS FALSE MANMADE DOCTRINE TEACHES THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD IS JUST A WORK THAT MAN CAN DO BUT HAVE NO PART, NEITHER ESSENTIAL NOR NECESSARY FOR SALVATION WHICH CONTRADICTS THE FF:

Hebrews 5:7-9 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of ETERNAL SALVATION FOR ALL WHO OBEY HIM.

A QUOTE FROM ElAmor’s POST

2 John 1:4-11 It has given me great joy to find some of your children WALKING IN THE TRUTH, just as the Father COMMANDED US. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had FROM THE BEGINNING. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we WALK IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you WALK IN LOVE. Many DECEIVERS, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the DECEIVER and the ANTICHRIST. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who RUNS AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE in the TEACHING OF CHRIST does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him SHARES IN HIS WICKED WORK.

Who are those RUNNING AHEAD and DOES NOT CONTINUE IN THE TEACHING OF CHRIST?

They are those who CLAIM SALVATION is by Faith ALONE and ONCE SAVED they are ALWAYS SAVED therefore rejecting God’s Laws and commands which are in fact God’s own words. says that even obedience to God cannot save anyone because they are works and Faith ALONE saves.

Who then is the deceiver and the ANTICHRIST?

They are those who do not continue in the teaching about WALKING IN LOVE which is WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS. Who do not acknowledge Jesus as coming in the flesh by the mere fact that they reject the LAW that prophesied about Jesus as coming in the flesh.

1 John 2:1-6 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. THE MAN WHO SAYS, “I KNOW HIM,” BUT DOES NOT DO WHAT HE COMMANDS IS A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him MUST WALK AS JESUS DID.””””””””



WE ARE TO WORK OUT OUR OWN SALVATION NOT AS INDIVIDUALS WORKING FOR HIS OWN SALVATION BUT AS ONE BODY IN CHRIST(eph 4:1-16) WORKING AS GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANTS OF GOD(mat 25:14-30) WHO ARE LIVING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT AND NOT ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE.(rom 8:1-17) WE HONOR AND GLORIFY GOD BY THESE WORKS OF LOVE, FAITH AND OBEDIENCE THAT BEARS GOOD FRUITS THAT WILL LAST..(john 15:6-17)

Luke 3:9 the ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”


1 Peter 1:3-7 Praise to God for a living hope Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the SALVATION THAT IS READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME. In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be PROVED GENUINE and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed.


2 Peter 1:5-11 For this very reason, make every effort to ADD TO YOUR FAITH goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being INEFFECTIVE and UNPRODUCTIVE in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and BLIND, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his PAST SINS. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Revelation 3:1-3 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD. Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; OBEY IT AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from
God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.

“DEAD FAITH CANNOT SAVE” ))james 2:14-26)


“LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR” rom 3:4
 

Gabriel2020

Senior Member
May 6, 2017
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The scripture that say that Jesus did not come to save the righteous but to save sinners meant all before he came was sinners. Here you have sinners doing righteous things, obeying the commandments of God, giving to the needy and the poor, but yet was not saved,and because they were doing righteous things, it was not going to save them. So the works of righteousness before Jesus came was of no effect. Mercy came to all regardless if they were doing righteous works or not. BUT upon being saved if they believed, their righteous works were counted in their favor,which is obeying the word of God. JESUS SAID. Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, and not treasures on earth. What kinds of treasure are you storing up in heaven? by being righteous in the eyes of God.