Not By Works

[LightLoveHope]

What you dont seem to understand , is that we ARE pure , holy , and blameless , we became that the minute we were born again , thats how God sees a believer

Now here is where you and I part.
I believe Jesus and apostles that we are actually washed clean, purified, not just a fairy land where
God looks at us as if we are pure, holy and blameless, but it is not true.

That is called hypocracy, and the true definition of it. If I thought that was what Jesus was saying
is our true reality, I would not be following Him.

God sees us as we are, our hearts, the bad and the good and is prepared to work with us through
our struggles, as long as we are honest about them. What you seem to be describing is we are the
same but God puts on rose tinted glasses.

But listen to the apostles. People left the passions of this world and put on the gifts of the
spirit and walked in love, patience, endurance and self control, living a life of purity and holiness.

I used to wonder why some are such a confusing mess sometimes but now I see it.
Hypocracy, fake purity, holiness and blamelessness, while pretending something has taken place
when they do not know what that might actually be.

When you find real love, and are really transformed and grow in Christ, all this make believe is
just religion and pretense, done by people who are feeling guilty but have no desire to get real.

Repentence is about getting real, and valuing that which God values, and knowing love and life
matter, and God saw a great prize in redeemed people. But you only see it if you find purity through
Christ, and start to feel for people in their suffering, not because a set of rules tell you to do it.

And the thing is you cannot fake this reality, Jesus has either made you or you are a tare.
I always have hope for everyone, because I am called to love and service not judgement.
But sinful behaviour will always be confronted and dealt with, because it destroys love and care
and distorts the hearts of those who touch it. It is why I do not engage with some, because their
way of thinking is just divisive with no empathy or attempt at understanding which makes such
interactions pointless. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

No.
You must have faith to be saved.


True genuine faith is what justifies us, not our works.

That being the case then having been justified by faith then works will be evidence of that.

Jesus said that he must go so that the Holy Spirit must come.

One of the reasons was to convict the the world of its sin.

That sin is unbelief in him.

So

Romans 10:8-13
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

What is righteousness? Most of us immediately think of a person trying to keep a list of rules, like a little boy or girl who never steps over the line. When Paul speaks of righteousness in Romans, he means far more than this commonsense understanding of the word. He draws on the Old Testament concept of righteousness, which speaks of a proper relationship between God and a person, or between God and His people.
In the Old Testament, righteousness is fundamentally an attribute of God (Ps. 71:15; 119:42). He alone is truly righteous. He is the One who remains faithful, to His promises, His covenant with Israel, and the Law. In turn, the Israelites as God’s people had the responsibility to exemplify God’s righteousness on this earth. Ultimately, this meant they had to love and worship the living God alone. (NKJV study notes)



God makes the covenant HE HAS MADE with his people.
We enter that covenant through faith and therefore are party to that covenant by faith.
As a result we love him and worship him

Out of this works will flow but they will not and not ever save us.
If that was the case then all Jesus would have to have done is come to earth.
Then say "Ok I've shown you the true intent of the law, now I'm going back to the Father"

But no he said he must die, be resurrected and then go home in order for the Holy Spirit to come to forgive us of the sin of unbelief IN HIM. When we repent of that and place our faith in him then we are saved. And we reconciled to the Father.
A relationship has been established.

Once again works are evidence of this and as a result of this.

Now I will say and will always say.

If a believer is walking in way that WE SEE then we must pull them aside.
Talk to them and see why.

If they struggle with certain issues but want help then walk with them, love and disciple them.

If they do not want help ask why? It may be that need to build up trust in us.

However if they say no I'm fine thanks and don't give two hoots then it's time for church discipline, as long as there are 2 witnesses

If not, and after going through Romans 6 then time to hand them over to God.

So to finish and in order to appease Ralph. So how many people on this thread would say it's ok to do what we want after confessing Jesus, sin all we want and still be saved?

I also ask you all here.

How many here would just write someone of before talking and judge them as non believers?

How many people here would Write someone off because they disagree with them.

How many people on here would judge anothers salvation?

well said brother

 

[Gabriel2020]

Believers will not be judged by what they do in the flesh, since God has condemned sin in the flesh, But they will be judged by every idle word that comes out of their mouth. And when you speak, you speak from the heart, the spirit man.

 

[dcontroversal]

Ephesians 4:29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

Was it wholesome talk when...

a. John called the Pharisees/people a generation of vipers
b. Jesus called the Pharisees white was coffins filled with the bones of dead men and blind leaders of the blind
c. Elijah mocked and ridiculed the prophets of Baal
d. Paul calling all who blend faith and the works of the law fools and deceived

Sarcasm is biblical when directed at false teachers and gospels which have no power to save a man, much less a flea.....

 

[dcontroversal]

We see a picture this in the holy of Holy’s on the mercy seat. The ten commands, Arrons rod and manna was inside, (ie all things which God had against us in which we are guilty before him) then the lambs blood covers the View area. So the cherub can only seen the blood, they can not see the charges against the accused (ie, they have been covered)

AMEN...like JOB said....my sins have been sewed up in a bag and removed.....and Jesus is clear....When I see the blood I will pass over you (in judgment) applied by faith and faith alone......

In these last days has appeared to PUT AWAY SIN<----exactly what he has done......his GRACE bounding ahead of our sin....

 

[Gabriel2020]

Idle words are the ones that are worldly and does not have anything to do with the kingdom of God. John, and Elijah was not trying to hurt anyone, but instead showing and telling them about the error of their ways.

 

[BillG]

My friend, I have seen a whole group suggesting a Holy walk is impossible,
and to suggest such a thing is to be a pharisee and hypocrite.

My friend the whole group you refer to are just honest who acknowledge that they are not perfect in their walk. They don't seek to not be be Holy but seek to be Holy, set apart to be like Jesus..

The problem with the Pharisees were that thier attitude was "I'm glad that in not like that miserable sinner, the sinner who realised he needed God"

What do you mean by "Holy Walk?

To not sin or acknowledge we do sin?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Idle words are the ones that are worldly and does not have anything to do with the kingdom of God. John, and Elijah was not trying to hurt anyone, but instead showing and telling them about the error of their ways.

same as dcon

 

[ElAmor]

Was it wholesome talk when...

a. John called the Pharisees/people a generation of vipers
b. Jesus called the Pharisees white was coffins filled with the bones of dead men and blind leaders of the blind
c. Elijah mocked and ridiculed the prophets of Baal
d. Paul calling all who blend faith and the works of the law fools and deceived

Sarcasm is biblical when directed at false teachers and gospels which have no power to save a man, much less a flea.....

you usually boast about context, is that the context of what i posted? and if possible can you also give me the context of this blah blah blah so i can benefit from that?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

you usually boast about context, is that the context of what i posted? and if possible can you also give me the context of this blah blah blah so i can benefit from that?

says the man spewing passive aggressive remarks like

"oh i didnt know he was your pastor"

or "TO ALL THE ZOMBIES"


cmon now

dont be a hypocrit

 

[dcontroversal]

you usually boast about context, is that the context of what i posted? and if possible can you also give me the context of this blah blah blah so i can benefit from that?

Post 55770 and what Noname has said....

 

[ljs]

Now here is where you and I part.
I believe Jesus and apostles that we are actually washed clean, purified, not just a fairy land where
God looks at us as if we are pure, holy and blameless, but it is not true.

That is called hypocracy, and the true definition of it. If I thought that was what Jesus was saying
is our true reality, I would not be following Him.

God sees us as we are, our hearts, the bad and the good and is prepared to work with us through
our struggles, as long as we are honest about them. What you seem to be describing is we are the
same but God puts on rose tinted glasses.

But listen to the apostles. People left the passions of this world and put on the gifts of the
spirit and walked in love, patience, endurance and self control, living a life of purity and holiness.

I used to wonder why some are such a confusing mess sometimes but now I see it.
Hypocracy, fake purity, holiness and blamelessness, while pretending something has taken place
when they do not know what that might actually be.

When you find real love, and are really transformed and grow in Christ, all this make believe is
just religion and pretense, done by people who are feeling guilty but have no desire to get real.

Repentence is about getting real, and valuing that which God values, and knowing love and life
matter, and God saw a great prize in redeemed people. But you only see it if you find purity through
Christ, and start to feel for people in their suffering, not because a set of rules tell you to do it.

And the thing is you cannot fake this reality, Jesus has either made you or you are a tare.
I always have hope for everyone, because I am called to love and service not judgement.
But sinful behaviour will always be confronted and dealt with, because it destroys love and care
and distorts the hearts of those who touch it. It is why I do not engage with some, because their
way of thinking is just divisive with no empathy or attempt at understanding which makes such
interactions pointless. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus.

You are so confused , I feel so sad for you

 

[joefizz]

Was it wholesome talk when...

a. John called the Pharisees/people a generation of vipers
b. Jesus called the Pharisees white was coffins filled with the bones of dead men and blind leaders of the blind
c. Elijah mocked and ridiculed the prophets of Baal
d. Paul calling all who blend faith and the works of the law fools and deceived

Sarcasm is biblical when directed at false teachers and gospels which have no power to save a man, much less a flea.....

I am so glad of that because I'm quite sarcastic lol!

 

[gb9]

Now here is where you and I part.
I believe Jesus and apostles that we are actually washed clean, purified, not just a fairy land where
God looks at us as if we are pure, holy and blameless, but it is not true.

That is called hypocracy, and the true definition of it. If I thought that was what Jesus was saying
is our true reality, I would not be following Him.

God sees us as we are, our hearts, the bad and the good and is prepared to work with us through
our struggles, as long as we are honest about them. What you seem to be describing is we are the
same but God puts on rose tinted glasses.

But listen to the apostles. People left the passions of this world and put on the gifts of the
spirit and walked in love, patience, endurance and self control, living a life of purity and holiness.

I used to wonder why some are such a confusing mess sometimes but now I see it.
Hypocracy, fake purity, holiness and blamelessness, while pretending something has taken place
when they do not know what that might actually be.

When you find real love, and are really transformed and grow in Christ, all this make believe is
just religion and pretense, done by people who are feeling guilty but have no desire to get real.

Repentence is about getting real, and valuing that which God values, and knowing love and life
matter, and God saw a great prize in redeemed people. But you only see it if you find purity through
Christ, and start to feel for people in their suffering, not because a set of rules tell you to do it.

And the thing is you cannot fake this reality, Jesus has either made you or you are a tare.
I always have hope for everyone, because I am called to love and service not judgement.
But sinful behaviour will always be confronted and dealt with, because it destroys love and care
and distorts the hearts of those who touch it. It is why I do not engage with some, because their
way of thinking is just divisive with no empathy or attempt at understanding which makes such
interactions pointless. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus.

this is where you part ways with reality. you have been told the Biblical definitions of sin many times, you refuse to acknowledge them. you declare your self holy, righteous, and pure, based on your own opinions of yourself, refusing to use the standards that the Bible lays out.

feelings and emotions do not create reality, facts do. unless you except Christ's righteousness, you will stand on your own merit. based on Biblical standards, not your opinions.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am so glad of that because I'm quite sarcastic lol!

Most people would not be able to endure John the Immerser, Jesus, Elijah or Paul........and such is the case today....like teh prophets of old.......

Do not speak unto us right things, but rather speak unto us SMOOTH things..........

 

[Budman]

McGee, Deek, Joe, Lucy, PennEd, Eternally-grateful, Budman,

Let's put an end to this right now.

Can a person who puts their trust in Christ then live any way they want and they still be saved?

Yes, or no?

Can they live in disobedience?

Yes.

Should they?

No.

Salvation is, and will always remain, a gift. Grace is, and always will be, unmerited.

If you work for or to retain either, you've negated both.

Yet again, God will chastise a wandering believer, even to the point of taking them home, but they can never be lost due to their behavior.

 

[ElAmor]

says the man spewing passive aggressive remarks like

"oh i didnt know he was your pastor"

or "TO ALL THE ZOMBIES"


cmon now

dont be a hypocrit

Do you now admit that it is not right to mock, accuse, abuse, insult, slander, bear false witness, curse, etc. By your words you will either be acquitted or condemned.

Matthew 12:37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.”

I just showed you what you yourselves are doing to those who disagree with your false doctrine and I will not stop doing this until you stop doing it intentionally.

Luke 6:31 do to others as you would have them do to you.

Romans 2:1-4 God’s Righteous Judgment You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

Matthew 25:40-46 “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Do you now admit that it is not right to mock, accuse, abuse, insult, slander, bear false witness, curse, etc. By your words you will either be acquitted or condemned.

to mock a false gospel ehhhh
i see nothing wrong with that

its like saying evolution is dumb <- (it is dumb)

as for the other stuff are you accusing me?

I just showed you what you yourselves are doing to those who disagree with your false doctrine and I will not stop doing this until you stop doing it intentionally.

hahahahahaha

riiiiight

thaaats what you were doing


you never hurt my feelings
i dont have paper thin skin like some

its called having patience

anyways
first take the giant log out of your eye

before you go trying to take specs out of others...


and you posting scriptures followed by zero understanding of them doesnt do you any good...

like when you tried to use instructions for hebrews to stop making sacrifices to imply people lose salvation...

 

[joefizz]

Most people would not be able to endure John the Immerser, Jesus, Elijah or Paul........and such is the case today....like teh prophets of old.......

Do not speak unto us right things, but rather speak unto us SMOOTH things..........

Milk shakes get your milk shakes here! hahaha hahaha!

 

[joefizz]

to mock a false gospel ehhhh
i see nothing wrong with that

its like saying evolution is dumb <- (it is dumb)

as for the other stuff are you accusing me?


hahahahahaha

riiiiight

thaaats what you were doing


you never hurt my feelings
i dont have paper thin skin like some

its called having patience

anyways
first take the giant log out of your eye

before you go trying to take specs out of others...


and you posting scriptures followed by zero understanding of them doesnt do you any good...

like when you tried to use instructions for hebrews to stop making sacrifices to imply people lose salvation...

Evolution is dumb except in "video games","anime" and "movies".