Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I do not disagree with you here about the BEMA seat of Christ, is that Matt 25 or not? Are you guys saying that the GWT is Matt 25? If that is a yes, then why does the king separate the nations into 2 groups, and after judgement one is given entry into eternal life the other eternal punishment. I think Matt 25 is the BEMA seat, not GWT and what we see in Matt 7.

Another poster said Matt 25 was the GWT, is that what youa re saying as well? I am just terribly confused now, by what is being said.

My view.....and this is somewhat off the hip....it seems that when the Lord comes back he will devastate the world and nations of the world and at that time determine which nations will be allowed to enter the millennium.......

Judgment A (1st) Judgment seat of Christ >rewarding of the Saints, separation of the Nations and what Nations will be allowed on the planet during the 1000 year reign of Christ

Judgment B (2nd) The Great White Throne where all the LOST are judged by their works according to the law, found guilty, not in the book of life and cast into the lake of fire.

NOTE.....an interesting play on words that often get over looked.....cities and nations are also collectively judged as well....just a few scriptures of the multitudes that point to this truth.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes

"And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

"So I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands. And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands." 'For thus says the Lord GOD, "At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered. "I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom.

Do not forget that eternal punishment begins with HELL which is pulled and cast into the LAKE of FIRE at the end......

 

[valleyofdecision]

Really? Most of the time? Are you sure of this? Should it not say ALL the time?

There are rare cases that someone is genuinely saved but needs mentoring, there is a change but they need some time, care and nurturing. Luke 13:6-9

 

[valleyofdecision]

My view.....and this is somewhat off the hip....it seems that when the Lord comes back he will devastate the world and nations of the world and at that time determine which nations will be allowed to enter the millennium.......

Judgment A (1st) Judgment seat of Christ >rewarding of the Saints, separation of the Nations and what Nations will be allowed on the planet during the 1000 year reign of Christ

Judgment B (2nd) The Great White Throne where all the LOST are judged by their works according to the law, found guilty, not in the book of life and cast into the lake of fire.

NOTE.....an interesting play on words that often get over looked.....cities and nations are also collectively judged as well....just a few scriptures of the multitudes that point to this truth.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes

"And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

"So I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands. And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands." 'For thus says the Lord GOD, "At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered. "I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom.

Do not forget that eternal punishment begins with HELL which is pulled and cast into the LAKE of FIRE at the end......

Thanks, I appreciate going the extra mile here. So what is Matt 25 the GWT or BEMA?

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 11:4, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]is in His holy temple; [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalms 62:9-12, “Sons of Aḏam are but a breath, Sons of men are a lie; If weighed in the scales, They are altogether lighter than breath. Do not trust in oppression. And do not become vain in robbery; If riches increase, Do not set your heart on them. The Mighty One has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That strength belongs to Yah. And loving-commitment is Yours, O [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]; For You reward each one according to his work.”[/FONT][/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 2:12, “For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matt 13:41-43, "The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]judgment seat” is word #G968 - béma: a step, raised place, by impl. A tribunal, Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό, Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter, Transliteration: béma, Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma), Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal, Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

 

[John146]

I do not disagree with you here about the BEMA seat of Christ, is that Matt 25 or not? Are you guys saying that the GWT is Matt 25? If that is a yes, then why does the king separate the nations into 2 groups, and after judgement one is given entry into eternal life the other eternal punishment. I think Matt 25 is the BEMA seat, not GWT and what we see in Matt 7.

Another poster said Matt 25 was the GWT, is that what youa re saying as well? I am just terribly confused now, by what is being said.

1. Rapture of the Church, the body of Christ - Judgment Seat of Christ, rewards and loss of rewards
2. Tribulation
3. Second Advent of Jesus, Judgment of nations - those who assisted Israel will be separated from the goats
4. Millennial Reign of Christ
5. Great White Throne Judgment of all those outside the body of Christ, Old and New Testament

 

[ElAmor]

bumb again for ralph

God looks to the heart and not works

men look to works

1 Samuel 16:7
7 But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.

_____________

romans
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

New International Version 1984 Romans 3:29-31 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

 

[BillG]

God looks at our hearts/souls to see if we truly love Him. Our service is second to that. Anyone can do good works. The heart or motive for what we do is what God looks for.

Yes indeed God looks at the heart.
On a side note.

I like your signature.

One of my favorites (not mine)

"To forgive is to set the prisoner free, only to realise the prisoner was you"

 

[NoNameMcgee]

There are rare cases that someone is genuinely saved but needs mentoring, there is a change but they need some time, care and nurturing. Luke 13:6-9

i would say he is not yet saved but currently being tended to in hopes he will produce fruit

not yet hardened like the self righteous or the reprobates

but being called and given knowledge

Romans 1:28-29

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

________
1 john

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


______________


Hebrews 6
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.

___________

there are those who hear the call

but are not chosen

they were not born again or they no doubt would have continued in faith

__________

proof of tasting the Holy spirit but not being born again BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF



7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.






Philippians 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

i want to add

ive seen a few of your posts
and also seen truth in many of them


God bless you



(and sorry for the quote, im at work i wanted to make a newer post more full than this one)

 

[valleyofdecision]

i would say he is not yet saved but currently being tended to in hopes he will produce fruit

not yet hardened like the self righteous or the reprobates

but being called and given knowledge







i want to add

ive seen a few of your posts
and also seen truth in many of them


God bless you

Good points and thanks.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are rare cases that someone is genuinely saved but needs mentoring, there is a change but they need some time, care and nurturing. Luke 13:6-9

I would not call that living in sin though. And I agree with you

 

[mj007]

I had a conversation with God this morning specifically about faith and works. I'll share the answer I got if requested. But I sent it to my dad, and he sent me back some scripture from James.

[h=1]James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h]

​

[h=3]Faith Without Works Is Dead[/h]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.​

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?​

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

 

[BillG]

My view.....and this is somewhat off the hip....it seems that when the Lord comes back he will devastate the world and nations of the world and at that time determine which nations will be allowed to enter the millennium.......

Judgment A (1st) Judgment seat of Christ >rewarding of the Saints, separation of the Nations and what Nations will be allowed on the planet during the 1000 year reign of Christ

Judgment B (2nd) The Great White Throne where all the LOST are judged by their works according to the law, found guilty, not in the book of life and cast into the lake of fire.

NOTE.....an interesting play on words that often get over looked.....cities and nations are also collectively judged as well....just a few scriptures of the multitudes that point to this truth.

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes

"And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

"So I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands. And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands." 'For thus says the Lord GOD, "At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered. "I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom.

Do not forget that eternal punishment begins with HELL which is pulled and cast into the LAKE of FIRE at the end......

I don't fully understand the end of time interpretations.
I get lost with it, pre- post- a millennium.

Does one research this just because there are interested or because it impacts us and the church?

 

[valleyofdecision]

I would not call that living in sin though. And I agree with you

Ok I see how I worded that wrong. Sorry

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I had a conversation with God this morning specifically about faith and works. I'll share the answer I got if requested. But I sent it to my dad, and he sent me back some scripture from James.

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.​

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?​

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

well no one here is teaching faith would ever be apart from works. So not sure what point you would make.

Be careful talking with God. Satan comes as an angel of light, you might no0t know it, but it may be satan himself.

 

[BillG]

I had a conversation with God this morning specifically about faith and works. I'll share the answer I got if requested. But I sent it to my dad, and he sent me back some scripture from James.

James 2:14-26 New King James Version (NKJV)

Faith Without Works Is Dead

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.​

[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?​

[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.​

I would be interested to hear what God said to you.
I love your first sentence.

Isn't it great to be able to talk to God?
Just talk with him, sit and listen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't fully understand the end of time interpretations.
I get lost with it, pre- post- a millennium.

Does one research this just because there are interested or because it impacts us and the church?

I love history and I love prophesy, that’s what I study it. I do not think it really affects anyone but those alive when it happens. Although we are told two be ready, the lord comes as a thief. So I would not right it off completely.

 

[Magenta]

I would not call that living in sin though. And I agree with you

Amen. That is the ongoing, life-long process of sanctification

 

[valleyofdecision]

I don't fully understand the end of time interpretations.
I get lost with it, pre- post- a millennium.

Does one research this just because there are interested or because it impacts us and the church?

I think it impacts people and the church from a deception stand point. I prefer to be this way about it. Whether there is a rapture or no rapture or whether the truth is pre, mid or post trib, I am ready and I am occupying until he returns.

I do not believe there is a salvation impact to how one interprets end time things. I keep my own interpretations to myself, but the Bible does in fact teach a Day of the Lord. No matter what doctrine says, the Bible commands me to occupy and be ready for the return. that is where my effort lies, not trying to follow all the prophecy people,etc.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Good points and thanks.

i also want to add i agreed with your statement completely

and my reply was to the proverb in luke and not your point


thank YOU for your posts here

i feel like i just met a new brother

 

[mj007]

Well I actually write them down. To me it is like praying, and writing down the answer. I'll pm you.

I would be interested to hear what God said to you.
I love your first sentence.

Isn't it great to be able to talk to God?
Just talk with him, sit and listen.