Not By Works
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Can't you see that you are so fixated on what YOU do, (and others) on YOUR sin, (and others) that you are completely blinded to what JESUS does. And what has HE done, and continues to do? He has paid the price owed by your sin! So we are born again with the Holy Spirit who transforms us into the likeness of Jesus.
Those lists, both good and bad, in different Books, ARE DESCRIPTORS of who we are. Doing or not doing them doesn't make us anything, they merely describe the lost vs. the saved. Or the Children of God vs. the children of satan.
So of course there IS a difference between the believer and the unbeliever. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT FATHERS!
My Father has sent His Son to pay for my sin debt, and if I do the bad list, HE IS GOING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET ME TO STOP AND DO THE GOOD LIST. He will leave the 99 sheep and come and get me. Why?
BECAUSE I'M HIS CHILD!
He will correct and discipline me, and sometimes that can be very painful,and depending on my response to that discipline, may include physical death, but He does it because He loves me. Why does He love me ? BECAUSE I'M HIS CHILD!
If I weren't His Child, he WOULDN'T discipline me, and would harden my heart so that I would care a less about eternal consequences of my behavior.
So please, take your eyes off of sin. Stop inspecting everyone's fruit, rely solely on JESUS, keeping your eyes fixed on Him, and I GUARANTEE the good list will follow!
Those lists, both good and bad, in different Books, ARE DESCRIPTORS of who we are. Doing or not doing them doesn't make us anything, they merely describe the lost vs. the saved. Or the Children of God vs. the children of satan.
So of course there IS a difference between the believer and the unbeliever. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT FATHERS!
My Father has sent His Son to pay for my sin debt, and if I do the bad list, HE IS GOING TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET ME TO STOP AND DO THE GOOD LIST. He will leave the 99 sheep and come and get me. Why?
BECAUSE I'M HIS CHILD!
He will correct and discipline me, and sometimes that can be very painful,and depending on my response to that discipline, may include physical death, but He does it because He loves me. Why does He love me ? BECAUSE I'M HIS CHILD!
If I weren't His Child, he WOULDN'T discipline me, and would harden my heart so that I would care a less about eternal consequences of my behavior.
So please, take your eyes off of sin. Stop inspecting everyone's fruit, rely solely on JESUS, keeping your eyes fixed on Him, and I GUARANTEE the good list will follow!
Abraham was justified -- "accounted as righteous" based on his faith in Genesis 15:6 and was justified -- "shown to be righteous" by his works in Genesis 22, as we see in James 2:21.
You need to remember that James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
You need to remember that James is discussing the proof/evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).
In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:
1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be
Does anybody else notice this thread is currently on page 2508?
I haven't read the whole thread, and it's too late to catch up now, but (if I were a betting man) I'd be willing to bet there is nothing more to be said on this topic. Everything that might be said has already been said seven times, minimum.
That's all folks! Last one out, turn out the lights.
I haven't read the whole thread, and it's too late to catch up now, but (if I were a betting man) I'd be willing to bet there is nothing more to be said on this topic. Everything that might be said has already been said seven times, minimum.
That's all folks! Last one out, turn out the lights.
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I think this is the issue, we grew up, or have been involved in a “denomination” and thus tend to lead to what they believe (become men followers) instead of actually testing the spirit. To see what God actually says.
we need to be open to the fact the men we place our trust in may not have the whole truth. And there may be areas where they are not correct. I do not believe or follow everything my church states. In fact, I think we would be hard pressed to find any denomination or church which has the whole truth in every doctrine correct.
Does it make it a bad church? If it does. We have no good churches to go to.
of course. Only one doctrinal truth matter, the gospel. If a church gets that wrong. They are not a true church and leading people away. But if they are off on a non essential doctrine. SHould I walk away from them or attack them?
Scripture states to not forsake the assembly together. There is no excuse for not finding a body of believers to fellowship with
we need to be open to the fact the men we place our trust in may not have the whole truth. And there may be areas where they are not correct. I do not believe or follow everything my church states. In fact, I think we would be hard pressed to find any denomination or church which has the whole truth in every doctrine correct.
Does it make it a bad church? If it does. We have no good churches to go to.
of course. Only one doctrinal truth matter, the gospel. If a church gets that wrong. They are not a true church and leading people away. But if they are off on a non essential doctrine. SHould I walk away from them or attack them?
Scripture states to not forsake the assembly together. There is no excuse for not finding a body of believers to fellowship with
James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Abraham's faith needed to be fulfilled through obedience. That's not us. We are declared righteous and just the moment we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. I need no proof evidence to show my salvation. Look to the cross. Period. Until we understand the audiences of both Paul and James, it will continue to bring about disputes among honest brethren.
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Abraham's faith needed to be fulfilled through obedience. That's not us. We are declared righteous and just the moment we believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. I need no proof evidence to show my salvation. Look to the cross. Period. Until we understand the audiences of both Paul and James, it will continue to bring about disputes among honest brethren.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save him, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. He was "shown to be righteous."
In James 2:22, faith made perfect by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
Amen!
In James 2:22, faith made perfect by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.
Amen!
That's been my whole point. It's the faith of Jesus Christ that justifies the believer after the cross. Christ's faith was not even available to those OT saints. They lived by their own individual faith. Remember, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith requires evidence. Where's the evidence that Abraham had faith? He offered up Isaac as a sacrifice.
We need no works of obedience to demonstrate that we believed the gospel of Jesus Christ. Works proves nothing for salvation. Abraham was not justified until he offered up Isaaac. Abraham was not justified back in Genesis 15. He was declared righteous based upon believing God at His word, but needed justification through obedience. That's not us.
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