Not By Works

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

DC would never say a person who is saved will never have works. I have been listening to him for years now..

Now, if your talking about a persons walk at a point of time. Why are you even questioning that (that is most likely DC’s context??!!) how can a person be justified, then not justified?

Rosemaryx · Dec 24, 2017

Those who are truly saved can not help but change, for the Holy Spirit is living inside of us, how can we that are saved not change

, it would be impossible...Those who say they are saved and have no change in their life, then obviously they are not saved...

Some people can walk around saying they are saved under pretence, but as Jesus said " We will know them by their fruit...xox...

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

Wonderful. Now ask dcontroversial why he thinks 1 Corinthians 3, 1 Corinthians 5, the Prodigal Son, and something else (I forgot what it is) is teaching that you can have no works being an unchanged person and you will still be saved as long as you say you believe in Jesus.

Hizikyah · Dec 24, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 7:13-27, “Enter in through the narrow gate! Because the gate is wide – and the way is broad – that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter in through it. Because the gate is narrow and the way is hard pressed which leads to life, and there are few who find it. But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them. Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Master, Master,’ shall enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the desire of My Father in the heavens. Many shall say to Me in that day, ‘Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and done many mighty works in Your Name?’ And then I shall declare to them, ‘I never knew you, depart from Me, you who work lawlessness! Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does them, shall be like a wise man who built his house on the rock, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not do them, shall be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand, and the rain came down, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and they beat on that house, and it fell, and great was its fall.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, “Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 2:15, "Who show the work of the Torah (Instructions/Law) written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing (condemming sin) or even excusing (justifying sin)."[/FONT]

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

Hizikyah said:

SAlvation can not be lost, but none have yet recieved it:

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”

Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”

Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”

For scripture interprets scripture, and nobody can preach or teach differently than what Yahshua already taught, and He Himself said He taught the doctrine of YHWH. What is promised to us is eternal life, so once again; once you have done the will of Yah in your life, in the resurrection you receive it. Not before.

James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."

Revelation 3:21, “To him who overcomes I shall give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

BULL! I HAVE BEEN SAVED by Gods mercy (Titus 3) I HAVE BEEN GIVEN EVERY SPIRITUAL BLESSING (EPH 1) I HAVE BEEN GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE (john 3, John 4 and John 6) I have been sealed by the spirit (Eph 1) I have been given the stat of being not under condemnation because I am in Christ (rom 8)

I can go on and on, You people excusing your works based theology and all your excuses to reject the grace of God is on your heads. You explain to God why you water down his law. Water down his gospel. And reject his grace.

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

preacher4truth said:

I have the rigtheousness of Christ. The tax collector you cite in Luke had his own righteousness. I'm not going to pretend I'm not the righteousness of Christ. You can if you want to but I'm not going to.

And I see it's okay for you to say I'm unsaved after bashing me for suggesting others are not. This is good. Real good.

Hizikyah · Dec 24, 2017

eternally-gratefull said:

SO who has already been transformed into a spirit body that is uncorruptable?:

"hen shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming"

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and possessing the Witness of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Messiah."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 10:45, “For even the Son of Aḏam did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the Belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]

Ralph- · Dec 24, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

When I say this I'm labeled a self righteous Pharisee who looks down on others. Let's see how they treat you. Better than me I'm guessing.

John146 · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

What works and how much works prove one's salvation?

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

who said the prodigal son had no works? How long was the prodigal son a son before he tried to live on his own? (I was one for 5 years. Even after all my works, if I died in that time would I be lost>

1 cor 3 is talking to babes in christ. They are lost? According to paul they once were living in sin, now they are not ( 1 cor 6) is that not a work? THEY SHOWED CHANGED LIVES..

1 cor 5. That same person in 2 cor showed he repented. Why are you going to judge a persons salvation? I take your sinless that you can cast stones?

Keep trying fran who whoever you are. Your not helping yourself.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

Hizikyah said:

SO who has already been transformed into a spirit body that is uncorruptable?:

"hen shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming"

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

Revelation 12:17, “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to fight with the remnant of her seed, those guarding the Commands of יהוה and possessing the Witness of יהושעMessiah."

1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

Mark 10:45, “For even the Son of Aḏam did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the Commands of יהוה and the Belief of יהושע. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”

Your trying to equate glorification with justification/

I am justified, But God did not take me out, he left me here because I have a job to do. My job is to bring other people to him, If God took everyone home th moment they were saved, who would give th gospel to the world?

Your ignored the passages I gave you. Nice try. But non effective.

stonesoffire · Dec 24, 2017

Hizikyah said:

Acts 2:29-40, “29 Men and brothers, let me speak boldly to you of the ancestor Dawiḏ, that he died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30, Being a prophet, then, and knowing that יהוה had sworn with an oath to him: of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Messiah to sit on his throne, 31, foreseeing this he spoke concerning the resurrection of the Messiah, that His being was neither left in She’ol, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32, יהוה has raised up this יהושע, of which we are all witnesses. 33, Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of יהוה, and having received from the Father the promise of the Set-apart Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. 34, For Dawiḏ did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself said, ‘יהוה said to my Master, “Sit at My right hand, 35, until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.” 36, Therefore let all the house of Yisra’yl know for certain that יהוה has made this יהושע, whom you impaled, both Master and Messiah. 37, "And having heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Kĕpha and the rest of the emissaries, “Men, brothers, what shall we do? 38, "And Kĕpha said to them, “Repent, and let each one of you be immersed in the Name of יהושע Messiah for the forgiveness of sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Set-apart Spirit. 39, For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are far off, as many as יהוה ourStrength shall call. 40, And with many other words he earnestly witnessed and urged them, saying, “Be saved from this crooked generation.”

Habakkuk 2:1-4, "2:1, "I stand at my watch, and station myself on the watch-tower, and wait to see what He says to me, and what to answer when I am reproved."2:2, "And יהוה answered me and said, “Write the vision and inscribe it on tablets, so that he who reads it runs."2:3, "“For the vision is yet for an appointed time, and it speaks of the end, and does not lie. If it lingers, wait for it, for it shall certainly come, it shall not delay."2:4, "“See, he whose being is not upright in him is puffed up. But the righteous one lives by his steadfastness."

2 Timothy 2:19-21, “However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal, “יהוה knows those who are His, and, let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness. But in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some unto value and some unto no value. If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every good work.”

1 Thessalonians 5:21, "but test everything; hold fast what is righteous."

Mat 16:24-27, “Then יהושע said to His taught ones, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his stake, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, and whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it. For what is a man profited if he gains all the world, and loses his own life? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life? For the Son of Aḏam is going to come in the esteem of His Father with His messengers, and then He shall reward each according to his works.”

Hebrews 12:3-5, “For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives.You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of יהוה, nor faint when you are reproved by Him,"

Hebrews 12:28-29, "Therefore, since we are receiving a Kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have and hold humility, by which we may serve YHWH acceptably with reverence and awe: For our Father is a consuming fire."

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Romans 12:1-2, “I call upon you, therefore, brothers, through the compassion of Yah, to present your bodies a living offering – set-apart, well-pleasing to Yah – your reasonable worship. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you prove what is that good and well-pleasing and perfect desire of Yah.”

Titus 2:11-12, “For the saving Gift of YHWH has appeared to all men, instructing us to renounce wickedness and worldly lusts, and to live sensibly, righteously, and reverently in the present age.”

Psalm 32:8, “Let Me instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; Let Me counsel, My eye be on you.”

All good instruction Hiz and no condemnation as we grow up in His Son. But, it's out of the sanctifying work of Holy Spirit upon us and in us, the set apart ones as the Hebrew states.

His instruction causes growth, but by wisdom to our heart. And we learn how to move and speak out of the unifying oneness that we come to in Him. His Presence then within and upon.

Amen?

preacher4truth · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

Nope, it's not when you say that you're labeled as a Pharisee. Nice try though. It's your condemnation of others as lost but you.

Beez · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

Well??? How can the fingers under that cute little face write the things you do? (hee-hee-hee!)

preacher4truth · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

So you admit to saying others here are not saved. We know this, thanks for admitting you're the Luke 18:9-11 lad.

I didn't say you're unsaved, though it is still possible. I offered texts and statements to help you examine yourself and you can't handle your own medicine.

You tell others to examine themselves but couldn't even fathom examining your own self. That's simply showing more of your self righteousness. You believe 2 Corinthians 13:5 is for others, but not for you of course.

stonesoffire · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph- said:

Repentance from sin and confession of faith in Jesus is what brings conversion, and conversion is an experience with the Lord. We know we are saved. Sometimes that's all we know. Then we begin to grow. And not at the same rate.

What you posted sounds like conversion is something you did.

If we have received a new nature, then the old has gone. The problem we have then is to fight the lies of the enemy who will say we haven't received anything because of a failure. Then the word of the Lord will come to battle that lie and show that we get sprinkling of blood upon us as we walk with Him. Covered completely, and blotting out failure.

The blood speaks from heaven continually mercy to all the world.

And we will mature. Just like any child growing up.
.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 24, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Amen, they have NEVER been saved, they did not, or are they in danger of losing salvation

stonesoffire · Dec 24, 2017

We are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, not the righteousness of Christ. Big error of thinking there. I say this without judgement but to help.

preacher4truth · Dec 24, 2017

Ralph,

For the record I don't see anyone here espousing doctrine that rejects the necessity of a transformed life.

What I do see clearly is you judging others as lost, but yourself as saved, and you show great disdain for others as well. Your disdain for others is not only Pharisaical, but according to 1 John it doesn't pass the test of true conversion.

Just being honest about your fruit, it isn't passing the test, so, that being said you need to start noticing yourself before you ask this prematurely of others.

Now, get your last word in, there is nothing more to say to you about things you need to heed for yourself in self examination.

Beez · Dec 24, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

Okay. On this subject, what surprised me was that, in spite of my lack of knowledge, I started wanting to do things I would never even have considered doing before and didn't want to do what I had taken delight in doing before. In time I got so used to this new life that sometimes, I thought I had instigated it. Within a very short time, I'd learn NOT!!!

Not By Works

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