Not By Works

[PennEd]

Praise be to God, and be assured that at the final judgement you won't hear "depart from me ye that work iniquity".


AMEN!


When people fight against perfect obedience to God, what do you suppose they ARE advocating?


First...I do not sin...thanks be to God.
Second...Was Paul slapping God when he wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Was Peter slapping God when he wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)
Or..."Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)


You have, in effect, made Jesus your Savior, but not your Lord.


Why didn't THAT grace stop the sin you just mentioned in the last sentence?


I can only hope that despair drives you to a real repentance from sin.


'You forgot to include..."and permission to keep sinning''.

God, in His mercy and grace, made it possible to kill the old man and be reborn of Godly seed that cannot bring forth evil fruit.
THAT is love.

"Praise be to God, and be assured that at the final judgement you won't hear "depart from me ye that work iniquity"."

The iniquity they work is depending on THEIR works for salvation, NOT Jesus'

"First...I do not sin...thanks be to God"

You make God out to be a liar. We are blameless NOT sinless. You cheapen God's perfect standard by saying you never sin. You have never driven 1 mile over the speed limit? That is sin. You have Never glanced at a woman and had an impure thought? SIN! You have never gotten angry with someone? Sin. You have never been fearful, worried, called someone a fool, used foul language,foolish talk, course jesting, wanted ANYTHING (not taken, just wanted)that someone else has. any pride, and many other sins.?

"Second...Was Paul slapping God when he wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Was Peter slapping God when he wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)"

Speaking of Peter... PAUL calls him a hypocrite! Hypocrisy is a sin. Is Peter saved? Why wasn't he sinlessly perfect? How many times did Jesus tell him to forgive WHO? His brother!! Why is he to forgive his brother if his brother never sins?


"You have, in effect, made Jesus your Savior, but not your Lord."

He is my Lord. That is why I know He forgives me when I fail. NOT saying there are not consequences when I fail. But God disowning me, His child, is NOT one of them. Just like my children know I will forgive them and not disown them when they fail.


"Why didn't THAT grace stop the sin you just mentioned in the last sentence?"

A fair question. I believe the answer is He is still working, sanctifying and perfecting me. I am NOT the man I was 5 yrs ago, and I expect the Holy Spirit will conform me more and more to the likeness of Jesus til I die and receive an incorruptable body.

"I can only hope that despair drives you to a real repentance from sin."


Yeah..um no.. Despair is the enemy's goal. NOT our beautiful Lord!!!

"You forgot to include..."and permission to keep sinning''."

A true shame you had to end your post with slander.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hold up.. so those being spoken to never believed?

Because it is written I have not found your works perfect before GOD.. John was clear as is the Lord confuse not the two as if you have solved a riddle..

Now why not say because you have not believed on me? Clearly they had believed and were now being warned..

If the one off nothing we do was so then why write these things for we believers to take heed?

Because the Lord’s Testament instruct much of us.. yes our Faith is to worketh by love.. Love GOD with all our being and each other..

It is FAITH that has gotten the victory and allowed us to overcome....anything beyond that is the result of faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ...LOVING GOD and each other is a process of growth and maturity and NOT something one immediately possesses......

 

[loveme1]

It is FAITH that has gotten the victory and allowed us to overcome....anything beyond that is the result of faith and salvation one already possesses in Christ...LOVING GOD and each other is a process of growth and maturity and NOT something one immediately possesses......

Who said it was?

Faith that is to grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ.. and if Christ tells us to have perfect works then we believe..

 

[dcontroversal]

"Praise be to God, and be assured that at the final judgement you won't hear "depart from me ye that work iniquity"."

The iniquity they work is depending on THEIR works for salvation, NOT Jesus'

"First...I do not sin...thanks be to God"

You make God out to be a liar. We are blameless NOT sinless. You cheapen God's perfect standard by saying you never sin. You have never driven 1 mile over the speed limit? That is sin. You have Never glanced at a woman and had an impure thought? SIN! You have never gotten angry with someone? Sin. You have never been fearful, worried, called someone a fool, used foul language,foolish talk, course jesting, wanted ANYTHING (not taken, just wanted)that someone else has. any pride, and many other sins.?

"Second...Was Paul slapping God when he wrote..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
Or..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (2 Tim 2:19)
Was Peter slapping God when he wrote..."Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)"

Speaking of Peter... PAUL calls him a hypocrite! Hypocrisy is a sin. Is Peter saved? Why wasn't he sinlessly perfect? How many times did Jesus tell him to forgive WHO? His brother!! Why is he to forgive his brother if his brother never sins?


"You have, in effect, made Jesus your Savior, but not your Lord."

He is my Lord. That is why I know He forgives me when I fail. NOT saying there are not consequences when I fail. But God disowning me, His child, is NOT one of them.Just like my children know I will forgive them and not disown them when they fail.


"Why didn't THAT grace stop the sin you just mentioned in the last sentence?"

A fair question. I believe the answer is He is still working, sanctifying and perfecting me. I am NOT the man I was 5 yrs ago, and I expect the Holy Spirit will conform me more and more to the likeness of Jesus til I die and receive an incorruptable body.

"I can only hope that despair drives you to a real repentance from sin."


Yeah..um no.. Despair is the enemy's goal. NOT our beautiful Lord!!!

"You forgot to include..."and permission to keep sinning''."

A true shame you had to end your post with slander.

and the deceit of saying I do not sin.....wow...he is in for a big surprise............the audacity..........the ignorance.....

I thank GAWD that I do not sin like that sinner over there.....<--PHARISEES.......

 

[Studyman]

Evening Studyman, or afternoon where you are.

I don’t mind discussing scriptures even those we may disagree with. Discussion is good when it’s with the proper intent. To build each other up.

Just so you know I only post my thoughts when I am fully settled on them. If I am not sure I wouldn’t respond with my thoughts but ask how one came to those thoughts (like I did with H last night) and then seek for myself to ensure I am not in error.

So if ever I happen to disagree with you, it’s not me going at you. And if ever I do let me know.
I am not here to fight but to encourage, to love and to learn.

So if I understand your post above you are asking me if the two passages you quoted related in any way or be reconciled with each other.

Before I answer I would like to say that with regards to Matt 7:22 I thought I gave my thoughts in post 41097.

So if I have understood your question correctly here are my thoughts.

To me the one who turns away from the law has no regard for the law.
If they have no regard for the law then they have no regard for God.
With regard to the law I am not fully sure if it’s the 10 commandments and the levitical laws.
I come down on the side of the 10 commandments and the levitical laws that expand them.
But why would such people pray?

For a religious effect.
Just like the Pharisees who Jesus came against.
I won’t post the verses as they are quite long but we have Jesus comeing against them in Matt 23 13:36. The woes.

But we find

Matthew 23:12
12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

The above verse leads in the woes.
The Pharisees exulted themselves above the very people they were to lead and teach in the ways of God.
Yet they burdened them, and made big prayers so everyone who could here.

Luke 18:10-14
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

The link I see with regards to Matt 7:22.

Verses 15:20 talk about fruits and you shall know them by them. False prophets do not bear fruit bad trees, but good trees bear fruit.

Verses 24:27 talks about building on the rock which we know is Jesus. To do so is to follow him and walk in what he has taught us, we can only do that if he is our rock. Genuine belief in him. When testing comes our house will be stand the storms (Jesus our house).

If we do not build on him then we have no regard for him or his ways. Therfore the house is fall.

So to try and wrap this up so I don’t continue to bore people reading this.

Jesus summed up the 10 commandments in two.

Matthew 22:37-40


37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

To me the people mentioned in Matt 7:22 are those who have no regard for God and Jesus is not their rock.
They appear clean on the outside but inside they are filthy.
Everything they do and say is for personal appearance and gain.

They fall foul of the 2 commandments given by Jesus that sum up the 10.
They claim all those great works, some may be genuine some may be not.
But such people were never converted, Jesus was not their rock, their foundation.

They break God’s laws through rejection of the Father’s will as taught by Jesus. Having never known Christ, they never learned to do what he commanded, or were not even interested.

The will of the Father is that all place their faith in Jesus.
When one does then they want to love God with all their heart and soul and love our neighbour as we love ourself, Jesus took it further and told us to love our enemies and do good to those who hate us and pray for them.

The law of love which Jesus commands and which he judges on when he separates the sheep from the goats.
So the goats are rejected becuase they had no love, they were too busy with the facade on the outside whilst filthy on the inside.
Workers of iniquity.
No regard for God, no regard for Jesus and no regard for people.
Self centred, self serving, pious, and so on.

Now some of they have read the above will think “He hasn’t talked about sin”
So I could be accused of saying sin does not matter, works of iniquity.
Thats not the works of iniquity that Jesus talks about.

Jesus said he had to go away so the Holy Spirit must come, our helper.
His job is to convince us of the claims of Jesus and when we place our faith in him, he will help us to conform us to the image of Christ.

As we follow and allow him to work in us.
We will decrease and Jesus will increase.
Hard hearts become flesh, and sin decreases.

To me it’s a no brainer.
The grace of God is not an excuse to sin, but it covers our sin. If we think it’s ok to sin then it’s a wrong attitude.

Which Paul addressed in Romans 6.

The grace of God sets us free to be the children he has asked to be.

Sorry it’s a long response but I hope I have answered your question.

Bill

Thanks for the reply

 

[dcontroversal]

Who said it was?

Faith that is to grow in Grace and knowledge of Christ.. and if Christ tells us to have perfect works then we believe..

Yes or no honestly...

DO you, HAVE YOU done everything right today, 100% upright, no failures, kept every law, no bad thought, no bad deed, serving God 100% without error or failure.

 

[Hizikyah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Is it evil, justified by works or rejecting the Messiah if one believes these verses to be true?

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”[/FONT]

 

[loveme1]

Yes or no honestly...

DO you, HAVE YOU done everything right today, 100% upright, no failures, kept every law, no bad thought, no bad deed, serving God 100% without error or failure.

Seriously.. how can you ask me to answer to you? I live by Faith and I’m at liberty under Grace.. Kept by the power of GOD and you tempt me to answer to you? Not going to happen.. let Christ judge me in good time.

 

[dcontroversal]

Is it evil, justified by works or rejecting the Messiah if one believes these verses to be true?

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”

What happens is simple....people go to seed on one or two words not taking into account that he speaks of a way of life.....not one off sins or failures from time to time....this fully speaks to those who walk in sin non stop and or those who attempt to do what right with occasional failures......

 

[dcontroversal]

Seriously.. how can you ask me to answer to you? I live by Faith and I’m at liberty under Grace.. Kept by the power of GOD and you tempt me to answer to you? Not going to happen.. let Christ judge me in good time.

It is a simple question....you and others push a sinless perfectionist I always do what is right dogma....you push that you have PERFECT WORKS...

YES or NO...the only reason it is so difficult for you to answer is if you fail and you know you fail.....end of story...I am sick of those who push this and yet will NOT answer a simple yes or no to the straight forward question....

I have no problem answering....Today I have done many things acceptable and I have failed a few times because I still possess a HUMAN SIDE that is still BOUND....


YES or NO

Yes or no honestly...

DO you, HAVE YOU done everything right today, 100% upright, no failures, kept every law, no bad thought, no bad deed, serving God 100% without error or failure.

 

[Hizikyah]

Is it evil, justified by works or rejecting the Messiah if one believes these verses to be true?

1 John 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Romans 6:16, "”Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves servants for obedience, you are servants of the one whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?”

What happens is simple....people go to seed on one or two words not taking into account that he speaks of a way of life.....not one off sins or failures from time to time....this fully speaks to those who walk in sin non stop and or those who attempt to do what right with occasional failures......

ok, so it dosent mean one is rejecting mercy if they seek to do righteousness before the Most High?

 

[loveme1]

It is a simple question....you and others push a sinless perfectionist I always do what is right dogma....you push that you have PERFECT WORKS...

YES or NO...the only reason it is so difficult for you to answer is if you fail and you know you fail.....end of story...I am sick of those who push this and yet will NOT answer a simple yes or no to the straight forward question....

I have no problem answering....Today I have done many things acceptable and I have failed a few times because I still possess a HUMAN SIDE that is still BOUND....


YES or NO

Yes or no honestly...

DO you, HAVE YOU done everything right today, 100% upright, no failures, kept every law, no bad thought, no bad deed, serving God 100% without error or failure.

No DC we believe Christ who teaches us to be perfect and Righteous.. to Keep the Commandments.. it is not a question I need to answer.. you can share your daily trials if you wish but all here know GOD knows all things.. nothing hidden... yet I know ahead this much..

if if I say I sinned you will say guilty.. if I say I have not sinned you will say guilty.. yet your judgement is not binding and is more of an attempt to undermine to exalt yourself... so.. you will not tempt me to partake in your spectacle.

 

[loveme1]

Now I will love and leave you all and GOD willing come again soon.

Remember nothing is held against.. let us contend for the Faith without Evil intent .. heated indeed.. but hatred.. may it not be so.

Glory to Heavenly Father and our Lord and Saviour always and forever.

 

[Seohce]

I have answered at least three times....not my fault you are too dense to grasp it.......WISE UP......

Aren't you ashamed of a

 

[dcontroversal]

No DC we believe Christ who teaches us to be perfect and Righteous.. to Keep the Commandments.. it is not a question I need to answer.. you can share your daily trials if you wish but all here know GOD knows all things.. nothing hidden... yet I know ahead this much..

if if I say I sinned you will say guilty.. if I say I have not sinned you will say guilty.. yet your judgement is not binding and is more of an attempt to undermine to exalt yourself... so.. you will not tempt me to partake in your spectacle.

Yep....a claim of perfect works but not willing to be honest with the group and your response is just like a Pharisee or Pharisees when asked about John by Jesus....

I HOPE ALL SEE THIS............

 

[dcontroversal]

Aren't you ashamed of a

Ashamed of what........

 

[tourist]

Aren't you ashamed of a

Ashamed of what........

a.........

 

[MattforJesus]

The Bible says that a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh,for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts,and show the characteristics of the Spirit,in which there are no fleshy ways there.

If a person hates sin,and does not want sin,by the Spirit they can abstain from sin.

It is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,and we have a choice,and if we do evil,we could of chose the good.

We sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

The Bible says if a person sins willfully there is no more sacrifice for sin,which means if they sin,and hold unto sin,the sacrifice of Jesus cannot wash it away until they repent of it,and do not want it,God knows the heart.

The Bible says God is not mocked,for whatever a person sows,that shall they reap,and God tells the saints to not be deceived by that.

Jesus said whatever is in the heart is what comes out,so if a person sins then that is what is in their heart,so they are not clean at the time they sin,or hold unto sin,until they repent,and do not want the sin,God knows the heart.

It is our thoughts,and actions,that define who we are,not we are clean despite our sin.God is not mocked,whatever a person sows,that shall they reap.

Like in the Old Testament the Jews that did not abide were cut off,and in the New Testament Paul says you stand by faith,but fear,for if they were cut off in the Old Testament take heed,for if you do not continue in the goodness of God then you will also be cut off.It does not matter Old or New Testament,if a person does not abide acting right they will be cut off.

The Bible says to bring every thought to obedience of Christ.

Therefore there is no excuse for our sin,for if we do not want sin,by the Spirit we can abstain from sin,and the belief we cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect our relationship with God does not apply.

But we still have the capacity to sin if we desire to sin,but we sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin,and there is no excuse.

It is not the point of sin,although we should abstain from it,but it is the way some people view the sin.

If we sin we should admit that we want to sin,not we cannot abstain from sin,for nobody twisted our arm to sin,so there is no excuse.

The problem is some people are not trying to beat sin,but they are sinning on purpose,and then saying they cannot abstain from sin,because we sin because we want to sin,not because we cannot abstain from sin.

They do not try to abstain from sin,but sin intentionally,and then say they cannot abstain from sin,which is ridiculous,for they can abstain from sin if they want to abstain from sin.

That is the problem,and that is why people go against those that believe OSAS,and faith alone,for they think they intentionally sin,and they act as if they cannot beat sin,which is absurd.

We might sin,but if we do sin we should admit that we want to enjoy that sin,not say something silly that we cannot abstain from sin.

The people that go against OSAS,and faith alone,are not claiming sinless perfection,but they are saying do not say you cannot abstain from sin,and sin does not affect your relationship with God,and if they do sin at least they admit they cannot do it and be right with God,and they will get rid of it.

So those who believe OSAS,and faith alone,and those who do not,might sin,but who has the better chance of getting rid of the sin,and not hanging unto it,which it would be those who go against OSAS,and faith alone,for at least they admit they can abstain from sin.

Those who believe OSAS,and faith alone,are more likely to hold unto sin,for they think they are alright for sin does not affect their relationship with God.

And I would say the ones who act the more Christlike would be more in the truth,for to act Christlike is the most important thing of all.

 

[dcontroversal]

So those who believe OSAS,and faith alone,and those who do not,might sin,but who has the better chance of getting rid of the sin,and not hanging unto it,which it would be those who go against OSAS,and faith alone,for at least they admit they can abstain from sin.

Those who believe OSAS,and faith alone,are more likely to hold unto sin,for they think they are alright for sin does not affect their relationship with God.

QUOTE]

FALSE and FALSE.......both assessments are incorrect..........especially the last one!

 

[preacher4truth]

So those who believe OSAS,and faith alone,and those who do not,might sin,but who has the better chance of getting rid of the sin,and not hanging unto it,which it would be those who go against OSAS,and faith alone,for at least they admit they can abstain from sin.Those who believe OSAS,and faith alone,are more likely to hold unto sin,for they think they are alright for sin does not affect their relationship with God.

FALSE and FALSE.......both assessments are incorrect..........especially the last one!

To these, whom Paul calls false, and of which I concur, salvation and the Gospel only mean a chance for them to make it into heaven for eternal life. #fakenews